James Honigman

Active Member
Supporter
Mar 20, 2017
296
255
76
No. California
✟95,578.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Growing up in the Synagogues, the Book of Life was a regular topic of conversation and a frequent sermon the Rabbis would give, but in Christianity it seems to be a rare subject. The other day I heard a TV Pastor say "You must get your name in the Book of Life!" Wrong! It's already there, we need to keep our names in it. Here is what Moses asked the LORD:

Yet now, if Thou wilt forgive their sin-; and if not, blot me, I pray Thee, out of Thy book which Thou hast written. Exodus 32:32

The Book of Life holds everyone's name who is alive today, and everyone's name who has ever lived. And yes, that is the book we need to keep our names in. When all is said and done with this flesh age, our names will remain in the Book of Life and we will be granted eternal life. In Daniel 12:1 we read this: And at that time thy People shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Well, that's comforting, everyone is going to get delivered! Not so fast. Everyone whose name is still in the book shall be delivered, but there will be many names, many of us, who will have their names blotted out of the book. Their destiny is the Lake of Fire where their souls shall perish. Is that really true? Yes, the Book of Revelation describes it best; please notice there are two sets of books mentioned here.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Revelation 20:12

The books that were opened are the books which have recorded our lives while we sojourned here on earth for our 70 years. Depending upon what was written in those books, our names remained in the Book of Life, or they were blotted out. Are your books in balance? Allow me to add, our works are very important, and repentance for our known sins is one of those works which will keep our names in the Book of Life. We do not want to dwell on the alternative.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15
 

Of the Kingdom

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2018
571
445
Atlanta, Georgia
✟48,162.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My understanding has always been that our names are first written in the book of life when we are born again. Can we find biblical support for "written at (or before) birth" or "at salvation"?

In any case, for those of us who believe, the only question is whether or not our name might somehow be "blotted out".
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,425
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟571,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
That's a really good question! I have been really wondering how we would know if one's name was blotted out, because it seems so essential that we are in the Book of Life.
Welcome to CF!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bree Perea
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,696
5,613
Utah
✟713,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Growing up in the Synagogues, the Book of Life was a regular topic of conversation and a frequent sermon the Rabbis would give, but in Christianity it seems to be a rare subject. The other day I heard a TV Pastor say "You must get your name in the Book of Life!" Wrong! It's already there, we need to keep our names in it. Here is what Moses asked the LORD:

Yet now, if Thou wilt forgive their sin-; and if not, blot me, I pray Thee, out of Thy book which Thou hast written. Exodus 32:32

The Book of Life holds everyone's name who is alive today, and everyone's name who has ever lived. And yes, that is the book we need to keep our names in. When all is said and done with this flesh age, our names will remain in the Book of Life and we will be granted eternal life. In Daniel 12:1 we read this: And at that time thy People shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Well, that's comforting, everyone is going to get delivered! Not so fast. Everyone whose name is still in the book shall be delivered, but there will be many names, many of us, who will have their names blotted out of the book. Their destiny is the Lake of Fire where their souls shall perish. Is that really true? Yes, the Book of Revelation describes it best; please notice there are two sets of books mentioned here.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Revelation 20:12

The books that were opened are the books which have recorded our lives while we sojourned here on earth for our 70 years. Depending upon what was written in those books, our names remained in the Book of Life, or they were blotted out. Are your books in balance? Allow me to add, our works are very important, and repentance for our known sins is one of those works which will keep our names in the Book of Life. We do not want to dwell on the alternative.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15

I think it has to do with Gods foreknowledge. He knows the beginning to the end. He knows who will choose Him and who will not. He does not make decisions for anyone ... but does know in deed what everyone's decision will be ... before they actually make them.

The blotting out ... are the ones of whom He knew from the beginning would not choose Him. We don't have that info .... people make the choice not to believe or have believed and then walk away ... so from our perspective our understanding is different because we do not have foreknowledge of what one's choice will ultimately be .... from Gods perspective He knows what the outcome is before it happens.

Revelation 13:8
English Standard Version
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
 
Upvote 0

James Honigman

Active Member
Supporter
Mar 20, 2017
296
255
76
No. California
✟95,578.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
My understanding has always been that our names are first written in the book of life when we are born again. Can we find biblical support for "written at (or before) birth" or "at salvation"?

In any case, for those of us who believe, the only question is whether or not our name might somehow be "blotted out".
Hi. You really have me thinking about a scripture saying WHEN our names are entered into the Book, and I can't come up with one. Psalm 139 goes a little bit into how God created us and it is logical that our names would be entered in then, but, I cannot say for sure, maybe someone else knows that answer. Thanks for the puzzler.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shoyru
Upvote 0

James Honigman

Active Member
Supporter
Mar 20, 2017
296
255
76
No. California
✟95,578.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I think it has to do with Gods foreknowledge. He knows the beginning to the end. He knows who will choose Him and who will not. He does not make decisions for anyone ... but does know in deed what everyone's decision will be ... before they actually make them.

The blotting out ... are the ones of whom He knew from the beginning would not choose Him. We don't have that info .... people make the choice not to believe or have believed and then walk away ... so from our perspective our understanding is different because we do not have foreknowledge of what one's choice will ultimately be .... from Gods perspective He knows what the outcome is before it happens.

Revelation 13:8
English Standard Version
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
Hi Eleos, those are fascinating thoughts for it takes the "free will doctrine" totally out of the picture. It also puts our desire to "do the will of God" in the back seat. I believe you are right if we only apply it to God's election, His elect, for they are foreordained and justified before being born, but I like to think everyone else has the opportunity to "run the good race" for Christ. Thanks for the input.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,696
5,613
Utah
✟713,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Hi Eleos, those are fascinating thoughts for it takes the "free will doctrine" totally out of the picture. It also puts our desire to "do the will of God" in the back seat. I believe you are right if we only apply it to God's election, His elect, for they are foreordained and justified before being born, but I like to think everyone else has the opportunity to "run the good race" for Christ. Thanks for the input.

no it doesn't dismiss the fact that the Lord created all His intelligent beings with free will .... and also because He chose to do that doesn't make Him any the less sovereign.

and no ... it does not put our desire to do the will of God in the back seat either.

Calvinism .... there is no love in it ... and I fully reject it.

God is love.
 
Upvote 0

Blade

Veteran
Supporter
Dec 29, 2002
8,165
3,989
USA
✟629,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There seems to be many books. "the books were open then another book was open" "the dead were judged by what was written in the BOOKS". In Ps 139 is a interesting one because "you saw my unformed body, all my days were written in your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be". Hmm

Mal we have the the book of remembrance. Every one is written in some book because its says according to what they have done". I believe we are written in the book of lamb.

"Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous."Ps 69:28

"and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain."

"Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be.” (Ps. 139:16).

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done”

"Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, And the LORD listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the LORD And who meditate on His name." Mal 3:16
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Butch5

Newbie
Supporter
Apr 7, 2012
8,932
767
62
Homer Georgia
Visit site
✟308,497.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think it has to do with Gods foreknowledge. He knows the beginning to the end. He knows who will choose Him and who will not. He does not make decisions for anyone ... but does know in deed what everyone's decision will be ... before they actually make them.

The blotting out ... are the ones of whom He knew from the beginning would not choose Him. We don't have that info .... people make the choice not to believe or have believed and then walk away ... so from our perspective our understanding is different because we do not have foreknowledge of what one's choice will ultimately be .... from Gods perspective He knows what the outcome is before it happens.

Revelation 13:8
English Standard Version
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
That translation is misleading. It's not properly worded. Here is a more accurate translation.

And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world; (Rev. 13:8 YLT)


As we see, its the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world. It's not the names written from the foundation of the world.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,696
5,613
Utah
✟713,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
That translation is misleading. It's not properly worded. Here is a more accurate translation.

And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world; (Rev. 13:8 YLT)


As we see, its the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world. It's not the names written from the foundation of the world.

Does God know the beginning to the end? Does He know who will be saved and not be saved? Yes He does. He knows all the choices people will make but does not make those choices for them.

Ephesians 1:4
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
 
Upvote 0

public hermit

social troglodyte
Supporter
Aug 20, 2019
10,966
12,050
East Coast
✟830,354.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Growing up in the Synagogues, the Book of Life was a regular topic of conversation and a frequent sermon the Rabbis would give, but in Christianity it seems to be a rare subject. The other day I heard a TV Pastor say "You must get your name in the Book of Life!" Wrong! It's already there, we need to keep our names in it. Here is what Moses asked the LORD:

Yet now, if Thou wilt forgive their sin-; and if not, blot me, I pray Thee, out of Thy book which Thou hast written. Exodus 32:32

The Book of Life holds everyone's name who is alive today, and everyone's name who has ever lived. And yes, that is the book we need to keep our names in. When all is said and done with this flesh age, our names will remain in the Book of Life and we will be granted eternal life. In Daniel 12:1 we read this: And at that time thy People shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Well, that's comforting, everyone is going to get delivered! Not so fast. Everyone whose name is still in the book shall be delivered, but there will be many names, many of us, who will have their names blotted out of the book. Their destiny is the Lake of Fire where their souls shall perish. Is that really true? Yes, the Book of Revelation describes it best; please notice there are two sets of books mentioned here.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Revelation 20:12

The books that were opened are the books which have recorded our lives while we sojourned here on earth for our 70 years. Depending upon what was written in those books, our names remained in the Book of Life, or they were blotted out. Are your books in balance? Allow me to add, our works are very important, and repentance for our known sins is one of those works which will keep our names in the Book of Life. We do not want to dwell on the alternative.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15

This is such an interesting notion, the book of life. A couple questions come to mind. Do you take it to be a literal book with everyone's name written in it? Also, how does Christ fit in, in relation to the book of life? Is Christ the book of life? Is "book of life" a metaphor?

Can I remain in the book of life without Christ? Or, what is it about Christ, if anything, that guarantees my name remains in the book of life? I'm just trying to figure out how the book of life relates to Christ, if it is not Christ. Does that make sense?
 
Upvote 0

Butch5

Newbie
Supporter
Apr 7, 2012
8,932
767
62
Homer Georgia
Visit site
✟308,497.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Does God know the beginning to the end? Does He know who will be saved and not be saved? Yes He does. He knows all the choices people will make but does not make those choices for them.

Ephesians 1:4
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
I don't know if He knows who will be saved. Many make that claim but I haven't seen it made from Scripture with any authority.

Considering Ephesians 1:4 which you posted, in this passage Paul is referring to the Jews. Verses 3-12 are one long sentence which is a Hebraism. It is a praise for what God has done. In this case Paul is blessing God for what He has done for Israel.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,696
5,613
Utah
✟713,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I don't know if He knows who will be saved. Many make that claim but I haven't seen it made from Scripture with any authority.

Considering Ephesians 1:4 which you posted, in this passage Paul is referring to the Jews. Verses 3-12 are one long sentence which is a Hebraism. It is a praise for what God has done. In this case Paul is blessing God for what He has done for Israel.

God did not choose Gentiles to be holy and blameless? Just Jews?

so Ephesians 1 in it's entirety applies to Jews only?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Butch5

Newbie
Supporter
Apr 7, 2012
8,932
767
62
Homer Georgia
Visit site
✟308,497.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God did not choose Gentiles to be holy and blameless? Just Jews?

so Ephesians 1 in it's entirety applies to Jews only?

As I said, verses 3-12 are referring to the Jews. If you look at these verses you'll see that Paul uses first person plural pronouns, us, we, and our. He includes himself in this group. In verse 13 he switches to second person plural pronouns, you and your. This indicates a switch in person. He's distinguishing between two groups, us and you. The group he refers to as us, he tells us is those who before hoped in the Christ. It was the Jews who had before hoped in the Christ, not the Gentiles.

That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ (Eph. 1:12 KJV)
 
Upvote 0

Scott Husted

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2020
860
376
64
Virginia Beach
✟57,000.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I don't know if He knows who will be saved. Many make that claim but I haven't seen it made from Scripture with any authority.

God then can't possibly declare an end that he does not know from the beginning.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hawkins

Member
Supporter
Apr 27, 2005
2,559
394
Canada
✟235,114.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Even in Jewish concept that names can be blotted out from the book of life.

The Book of Life of the Lamb has the following significance.

God knows before hand who will be saved in the end, though He also warned that He reserves the right to remove names from the book.

Earth is for open witnessing to be made, this by no means says God doesn't know before hand. "Only God knows" won't reflect God's fairness in the lack of other witnesses. Earth is for humans to be openly witnessed, and openly judged in the end. Only so that God's fairness can be told. God knows before hand, but Law demands both the righteous and wicked (in majority) to be openly witnessed and openly judged. It is so such that God can be shown to be a fair and just God.


Moreover, it seems that "blot out names" mostly applies to the Jews, as it seems that by default (possibly in early Jewish concepts) "Jews" as defined under the scope of the Jewish covenants are with names in the book to start with. Jews defined in the Mosaic covenant are those with males circumcised and trying their best to observe the Mosaic Law. I could be mistaken about this though.

For example,

Psalm 69:28 (NIV2011)
May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0