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The book of Job.

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by brinny, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    This is a thread about the book of Job, one of my favorite books in the Bible. Please share any insights and views that come to mind about the book of Job, and/or Job himself, etc.

    Thanks. And bless-ed delving, brothers n' sisters (and ev'ry body). :)
     
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  2. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    It's been a while but always loved the book. If you look carefully at the book of Job, Job would answer his friends and then all of the sudden, he is praying. You can see it after a while:

    Will You never look away from me, or let me alone to swallow my spittle? If I have sinned, what have I done to You, O Watcher of mankind? Why have You made me Your target, so that I am a burden to You? Why do You not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For soon I will lie down in the dust; You will seek me, but I will be no more.” (Job 7:10-21)
    Notice he is addressing God, something his friends never did. This just drips with anguish, why won't you forgive me is the question. They all think God is punishing him, it must have been torture. I love his apology, his final defense, where he describes how determined he had been to keep God's will in his life but we will get to that in due time.

    Your thoughts dear brinny, I'm here, where are you going to lead me in this study.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  3. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    i won't lead in the study, but i welcome insight just as you shared in your post above. What i find interesting, and i agree, is that Job was "praying" to God. He was "seeking" God, voraciously. He was not accustomed to being "distant" from God. He continues "praying" to God, even as his friends misunderstood what Job was doing.

    I welcome what you said about "praying". It's the first time i've heard of it referred to that way.
     
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  4. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I can get into the details more later but one of the things about Job is that we have no idea how it got into the Bible. It's one of the oldest of the books of the Bible, the Levites thought it was important for some reason but the origin is unknown, as is the author. He is thought to be a contemporary with the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) but we have no idea where this took place or who this guy was to the Jews. In the OT, the Devil is mentioned a couple of times, the temptation of Adam and Eve where he is called, 'the Serpent', notably. But there is this chilling discourse between God and the Devil in the courts of heaven where he seeks to test Job, the New Testament implications are legion. God is bragging on Job, which Job has no idea about, but that is why he was tested.

    I want to get into some of the details but it's late and I'm tired. As we begin this maybe you would like to share your thoughts on the book as we dive in. What is it about the book that raises your attention?

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  5. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The book of job clearly shows who is in total control of all circumstances.
     
  6. UnprofitableServant

    UnprofitableServant ThyWillBeDone

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    I agree!
    This is important to remember when we are going through a tough patch in our lives. The struggle will always seem too hard to control, and we feel that God has left us. On the contrary, God is in total control and He won't give us more than we can take (1 Corinthians 10:13). Just like in the story of Job, God allowed satan to put Job under many trials because He knew He can handle it. Therefore, no matter the trial we all face as humans, let us remember that God allowed this situation to happen because He knows we are strong enough to endure until the end!
     
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  7. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    The book of Job was a book i avoided like the plague, for the longest time, because i found his excruciating suffering in such a myriad of ways too painful to read. Then this verse kinda' loomed out at me (in another study) re: the "fear of the Lord", and the verse was this one below, and it referenced Job:

    "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Pr 9:10

    That's when i started delving in to the book of Job.
     
  8. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Thank you for your input. I somewhat agree with you, however, we are never "strong enough" to endure a thing, and no, we can not "handle it". It is God Who strengthens us, as it is written:

    "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." ~Phil 4:13
     
  9. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    G'nite Mark and ev'ry one. It IS late......i'll be back later today.

    Happy New year ev'ry one.
     
  10. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    A very happy New Year to you as well, God bless.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  11. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Oh I love the book of Job, the whole concept from the devil walking to and fro on the earth looking for a victim to especially the words of God speaking to Job and showing clearly how He always was and always will be in charge, so far beyond any mans thought capability or physical ability. And then Job just simply submitting and his life becomes blessed beyond his former life. It's a fascinating book but maybe all the more so since the Lord had me reading in it for weeks last year. His hand is truly on us and in our lives, the words ring so true from the song Never Once and " never once did we ever walk alone". We see God's orchestration of creation, we feel his love for even the mountains and beasts He created, the bear with her cubs, the leviathan. And yes for us, though we need our trials don't we? We must trust in the Lord ! He is right here all along, never far always with us, Counselor, Mighty God of whose kingdom there will be no end..
     
  12. ActsOfTheApossibles

    ActsOfTheApossibles El Possible

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    See the true life in Job 29, connect to Isaiah 58, connect to Matthew 5:1 - 7:29, 17:21; Mark 9:29, connected to Revelation 12:17, 14:6-12.

    Consider the unfallen beings of the unfallen worlds (Luke 15:7; Revelation 12:10) in Job 1 & 2, and see that the devil, through Adam's fall, had access to the gates of Heaven until the cross (Revelation 12:10; Romans 5:6; AD 31), and connect to 1 Kings 22:19-24; 2 Chronicles 18:18-23 and the great controversy between good and evil.

    Consider that Leviathan (Job 41; fiery breathing old Serpent, typifying the devil), whose covering is pride, and there is no room for the Holy Spirit to enter and that which comes out of his mouth kindles the fires of hell, stirring up the nations to hatred against God.

    Consider the wickedness of men before the flood in Job 22:15-17, 26:5, and their destruction in it, in what it means as it was in the days of Noah for the day to come.

    Consider that 'dinosaurs' (serpents/dragons of sea and land and sky) lived with mankind from the beginning (Job 40-41; Genesis 1:20-31).

    Consider that 'lightnings' (Job 38:35) are as the arrows of Light of the LORD's quiver (His children; Psalms 127:5), set in His "Bow" of Light (Genesis 9:13-14; Revelation 6:2, 19:11-16; Psalms 45:3-6), for His weapons are gloriously awesome, being symbols of men (Zechariah 9:13) and angel whom God sends as messengers (Daniel 10:6; Revelation 14:6-12, as a fletcher covers an arrow with 3 'feathers', and once a fourth added (Revelation 18:1), becoming a 'missile', a 'bolt' of Light, a WMD, a weapon of mass deliverance) (I have a whole sermon on this called the "cross-bow", with about 100 texts in dealing with the everlasting Gospel itself, and being "sent" by the almighty power of the arm and finger of God, drawn back from hell and sin, a brand plucked (Zechariah 3:2) from the burning, made into a shaft (Isaiah 49:2), fitted with the arrow "Head", the Rock of ages, sharper than any two-edged sword, released with infinite force, coming down from Heaven, with thunderings and rain, to pierce the heart of stone, and kill the old man of sin and to en-lighten the world).

    There is a lot more in Job, a lot more.
     
  13. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    There are many teachings in Job that are wonderful

    always have total faith in God
    alway have humility when going to God

    also, we see that God does limit the power and influence of satan and that God is in total control.

    We have a awesome God! Amen!
     
  14. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    One of the most interesting things in Job, and possibly the entire point of the book, is that Job's question is never answered. In the opening chapter Job is declared righteous, yet he sufferers immensely. In the book Job charges God to show him what he's done to deserve that suffering and points out that he is innocent. Job's friends try to convince him that there must be something he's done to arouse God's anger, but Job maintains his innocence.

    Eventually God shows up and tells Job's friends that Job is correct. God challenges Job to show how Job's power and knowledge are on par with God's, which of course Job can't do. But Job's objection is never answered: why does the righteous man suffer? No answer is given.

    I think this is what makes it a wisdom book. Job has neither the power nor knowledge to make such a charge and God is under no obligation to answer anything. And so he doesn't. Good people like Job suffer and we don't always know why. It's almost as if this is an answer to the "problem of evil."
     
  15. icxn

    icxn Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα

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    So that his virtue may be manifest, so that he may receive greater reward, so that the devil will have no excuse to say 'Does the righteous man fear God for no reason?' (Job 1:9) Plus, even the righteous have a little rust in need of refinement.

    Quote from Wisdom of Solomon, Chapter 3:

    1 But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and there shall no torment touch them. 2 In the sight of the unwise they seemed to die: and their departure is taken for misery, 3 And their going from us to be utter destruction: but they are in peace. 4 For though they be punished in the sight of men, yet is their hope full of immortality. 5 And having been a little chastised, they shall be greatly rewarded: for God proved them, and found them worthy for himself. 6 As gold in the furnace hath he tried them, and received them as a burnt offering. 7 And in the time of their visitation they shall shine, and run to and fro like sparks among the stubble. 8 They shall judge the nations, and have dominion over the people, and their Lord shall reign for ever. 9 They that put their trust in him shall understand the truth: and such as be faithful in love shall abide with him: for grace and mercy is to his saints, and he hath care for his elect.​
     
  16. ActsOfTheApossibles

    ActsOfTheApossibles El Possible

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    Yes it is. Satan, and sin and selfishness, and the latter two whether in ignorance or purpose, and with trust in God, deliverance/salvation from those things that faith is tested and proved, in that God's work in the heart is perfect.

    God's questions and comparisons to the things in nature (point to the spiritual, see 1 Corinthians 15:46), get Job to see those things, for instance:

    (Ignorance, can bring suffering)

    Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

    Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

    Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

    Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

    (ourselves in vileness and foolishness of sin and self, thinking ourselves self-righteous because we compare ourselves to men and not to God who is good)

    Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

    Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

    Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

    (satan, that Leviathan)

    Job 41:15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.

    Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

    The test upon Job, was that Job lived as righteously as he knew to be, and knew of God only by hearing what others had said, and could not see the spot upon his own heart, yet God could see, and allowed the devil to test Job, so God could reveal to him what was needful.

    The Book of Job gets into many reasons why men suffer, but with trust in God, it is all for the purpose of deliverance and salvation and the lesson to be taught of the evil of sin and what it brings. Job is a cosmic lesson to all the unfallen worlds, not merely this fallen one. Class was in session.
     
  17. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    I disagree with that interpretation.

    Job 42:8 is God talking to Job's friends saying they were wrong and Job was right.

    The opening chapter doesn't say that Job lived righteously as he knew to be. The opening chapter says that Job was a righteous man.

    1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.
    Job maintains his innocence through the book even while his friends insist he's done something to bring on God's punishment. But in the end, God says Job spoke correctly, but God never tells Job why he suffered.
     
  18. ActsOfTheApossibles

    ActsOfTheApossibles El Possible

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    Job was right in that which he knew, not that which he didn't know.

    Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

    Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

    Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
     
  19. ActsOfTheApossibles

    ActsOfTheApossibles El Possible

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    One additional thing to mention, is that "I" do not interpret, since that would be "private interpretation". God Himself interprets His own word, internally within the scripture, in one place and another:

    Gen 40:8 And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.

    2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

    Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

    Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    I simply "Amen" what God said it means.

    For instance:

    Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

    What are "waters"? What I "interpret it to mean? No. What you interpret them to mean? No. What some others interpret it to mean? No. What a 'Magisterium' interprets them to mean. No. God already interpreted it, defined it, explained it in the word itself (line upon line):

    Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

    In fact, He does so in the mouth of two or three witnesses in every case:

    Isa_17:12 Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!

    Isa_17:13 The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

    This is one definition of "waters" in the Bible, and there are a few more, and each definition that God gave may be applied in the appropriate manner so long as the 'equation' is 'equal' (Ezekiel 18:25,29, balanced (Leviticus 19:36; Ezekiel 45:10)).
     
  20. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I wanted to toss something in here I think is so obvious, it can be overlooked. God describes Job as 'perfect and upright' in Job 1:1, so you as the reader are given a secret insight into something Job and his friends could not have realized. A look at the word translated 'perfect':

    Perfect: Sound, wholesome, an ordinary, quiet sort of person. Complete, morally innocent, having integrity, one who is morally and ethically pure. (tâm, tawm; from H8552)
    I bring it up, not because I don't think you realize this but because it becomes a big deal in the discussion between Job and his friends. Jesus tells the disciples in his inaugural Sermon on the Mount, that start right off with the Beatitudes, which is salvation leading up to discipleship and ministry. Then at the end of it you would think he would say, and everyone is going to love you because you are so righteous right? No, instead he says this:

    “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5:11-12)
    Don't miss that, they persecuted the prophets who were before you in the same way. Job was a very early prophet, perhaps even before or at least contemporary with Abraham:

    I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread. (Job 23:12)
    Job was a councilor, an elder, a judge and I'm convinced, a prophet. I can get more into the details here but I want to get to the bottom of why God let such horrific destruction to Job. This theme would run throughout the Old Testament and it couldn't be clearer in the gospels. Look at how Paul suffered in the mission fields but at least he knew why they were doing it, God had not given Job that particular revelation.

    God was demonstrating his righteousness in Job and plainly tells all involved, 'my man Job'. That's the praise that comes from God rather then men. Why Calvary I have often wondered, why did all of Messianic prophecy focus on this one great moment of fulfillment? Why the cross, why did so many prophets and our beloved Apostles have to suffer? In Job I think we might get some answers, I do want to get more into the arguments of his friends and Job's responses, especially his apology (final defense) that silenced his critics. Here's a glimpse at the first round, I assure you I'm trying to be as brief as possible here:

    Job 2: Satan Attacks Job's Health
    Job 3: The Lament
    Job 4: Eliphaz, Innocent Prosper
    Job 5: Eliphaz, you are Chastened by God
    Job 6: My Complaint Is Just
    Job 7: My Life Has No Hope
    The point I'm trying to make here is that Eliphaz argues quite elegantly, and wrongly, that the innocent prosper and Job is being punished by God.

    Anyway, that's my meager attempt at an exposition of the opening dialogue. Some good discussion so far, I sincerely hope this helps to get a broader overview of the text as it unfolds.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
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