The Book of Enoch

[brinny]

I'm not gonna continue to debate.

The Book of Enoch has been shown to have been written long, long after Enoch was taken.

Its not in the canon of scripture.

You might could pick a few tid-bits here and there, but to teach it as truth, I cannot in good and clear conscious do it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

You can choose to avoid the question and/or not answer it, however, tragically, many see it as inspired by the living God.

Tidbits or not, why would it ever be recommended as reading?

God's Light needs to be shed on this, don't you agree?

 

[brinny]

If we're going do that, why not accept Tobit as canonical, and cast spells to control demons? (Tobit 6:5-8)

God Bless

TIll all are one.

I'm not familiar with Tobit. It teaches the casting of spells?

 

[DeaconDean]

You can choose to avoid the question and/or not answer it, however, tragically, many see it as inspired by the living God.

Is it in the canon?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

David Wilkerson spoke on this very thing in several of his sermons.

 

[brinny]

Is it in the canon?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Thank God it isn't, amen?

 

[DeaconDean]

I'm not familiar with Tobit. It teaches the casting of spells?

"Then the angel said to him: Take out the entrails of the fish, and lay up his heart, and his gall, and his liver for thee: for these are necessary for useful medicines. And when he had done so, he roasted the flesh thereof, and they took it with them in the way: the rest they salted as much as might serve them, till they came to Rages the city of the Medes. Then Tobias asked the angel, and said to him: I beseech thee, brother Azarias, tell me what remedies are these things good for, which thou hast bid me keep of the fish? And the angel, answering, said to him: If thou put a little piece of its heart upon coals, the smoke thereof driveth away all kind of devils, either from man or from woman, so that they come no more to them." -Tobit 6:5-8

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

There is much confusion. For instance, many claim that the book of enoch is being "quoted"/referenced to in the new Testament, and therefore this legitimizes the book of enoch.

 

[brinny]

"Then the angel said to him: Take out the entrails of the fish, and lay up his heart, and his gall, and his liver for thee: for these are necessary for useful medicines. And when he had done so, he roasted the flesh thereof, and they took it with them in the way: the rest they salted as much as might serve them, till they came to Rages the city of the Medes. Then Tobias asked the angel, and said to him: I beseech thee, brother Azarias, tell me what remedies are these things good for, which thou hast bid me keep of the fish? And the angel, answering, said to him: If thou put a little piece of its heart upon coals, the smoke thereof driveth away all kind of devils, either from man or from woman, so that they come no more to them." -Tobit 6:5-8

God Bless

Till all are one.

And your view of this?

 

[brinny]

One of David Wilkerson's sermons is "Witchcraft in the Church".

 

[DeaconDean]

There is much confusion. For instance, many claim that the book of enoch is being "quoted"/referenced to in the new Testament, and therefore this legitimizes the book of enoch.

Paul referenced outside literature, should we believe his source was "inspired"?

Clement of Alexandria quote the Greek story of the Phoenix.

Does that make the story of the Phoenix true?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

And your view of this?

I don't accept it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

If you accept non-canon books, why not accept The Apocalypse of Peter.

Peter's passages support various degrees of punishment:

"20. And over against that place I saw another, squalid, and it was the place of punishment; and those who were punished there and the punishing angels had their raiment dark like the air of the place.
21. And there were certain there hanging by the tongue: and these were the blasphemers of the way of righteousness; and under them lay fire, burning and punishing them.
22. And there was a great lake, full of flaming mire, in which were certain men that pervert righteousness, and tormenting angels afflicted them.
23. And there were also others, women, hanged by their hair over that mire that bubbled up: and these were they who adorned themselves for adultery; and the men who mingled with them in the defilement of adultery, were hanging by the feet and their heads in that mire. And I said: I did not believe that I should come into this place.
24. And I saw the murderers and those who conspired with them, cast into a certain strait place, full of evil snakes, and smitten by those beasts, and thus turning to and fro in that punishment; and worms, as it were clouds of darkness, afflicted them. And the souls of the murdered stood and looked upon the punishment of those murderers and said: O God, thy judgment is just.
25. And near that place I saw another strait place into which the gore and the filth of those who were being punished ran down and became there as it were a lake: and there sat women having the gore up to their necks, and over against them sat many children who were born to them out of due time, crying; and there came forth from them sparks of fire and smote the women in the eyes: and these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion.
26. And other men and women were burning up to the middle and were cast into a dark place and were beaten by evil spirits, and their inwards were eaten by restless worms: and these were they who persecuted the righteous and delivered them up.
27. And near those there were again women and men gnawing their own lips, and being punished and receiving a red-hot iron in their eyes: and these were they who blasphemed and slandered the way of righteousness.
28. And over against these again other men and women gnawing their tongues and having flaming fire in their mouths: and these were the false witnesses.
29. And in a certain other place there were pebbles sharper than swords or any spit, red-hot, and women and men in tattered and filthy raiment rolled about on them in punishment: and these were the rich who trusted in their riches and had no pity for orphans and widows, and despised the commandment of God.
30. And in another great lake, full of pitch and blood and mire bubbling up, there stood men and women up to their knees: and these were the usurers and those who take interest on interest.
31. And other men and women were being hurled down from a great cliff and reached the bottom, and again were driven by those who were set over them to climb up upon the cliff, and thence were hurled down again, and had no rest from this punishment: and these were they who defiled their bodies acting as women; and the women who were with them were those who lay with one another as a man with a woman.
32. And alongside of that cliff there was a place full of much fire, and there stood men who with their own hands had made for themselves carven images instead of God. And alongside of these were other men and women, having rods and striking each other and never ceasing from such punishment.
33. And others again near them, women and men, burning and turning themselves and roasting: and these were they that leaving the way of God."

The Apocalypse of Peter, verses 20-33

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

Paul referenced outside literature, should we believe his source was "inspired"?

Clement of Alexandria quote the Greek story of the Phoenix.

Does that make the story of the Phoenix true?

God Bless

Till all are one.

The point being, because some claim that the book of enoch is quoted in the New Testament, that the man of God, Enoch, authored the book of enoch.

The claim then, bottom line, is that Enoch, the man of God, authored a satanic, doctrine of demons.

 

[brinny]

I don't accept it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Why is that?

 

[brinny]

This comes to mind:

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" ~II Timothy 4:3

 

[DeaconDean]

Why is that?

Revelation 21:8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars–their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the actions of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, rivalry, jealously, outbursts of anger, quarrels, conflicts, factions, envy, murder, drunkenness, wild partying, and things like that. I am telling you now, as I have told you in the past, that people who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

Revelation 21:8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars–their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the actions of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, rivalry, jealously, outbursts of anger, quarrels, conflicts, factions, envy, murder, drunkenness, wild partying, and things like that. I am telling you now, as I have told you in the past, that people who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God Bless

Till all are one.

If this is true, why would anyone read or recommend reading the book of enoch?

 

[DeaconDean]

If this is true, why would anyone read or recommend reading the book of enoch?

It never hurts to read, but because its not in the canon, it shouldn't be taught as truth.

I've read a bunch of non-canonical books. But I do not teach them for truth.

I've got to go, but remind me to tell you why Methuselah may not have been the oldest man to ever live.

I'll be back on-line tonight around 11pm-12am until 7 am.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

It never hurts to read, but because its not in the canon, it shouldn't be taught as truth.

I've read a bunch of non-canonical books. But I do not teach them for truth.

I've got to go, but remind me to tell you why Methuselah may not have been the oldest man to ever live.

I'll be back on-line tonight around 11pm-12am until 7 am.

God Bless

Till all are one.

i'll try to remember LOL!

Looking forward to it.

Thank you for conversing with me.

God bless you too.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So I was wondering how many people consider this to be inspired. I read through it this weekend and couldn't help but wonder what would make anyone think this was from God.

I read thru Enoch many years ago and found it very interesting.

I was particularly fascinated with the 10 week prophecy in it.
This site shows those weeks along with his interpretation of the time line of them as related to the Bible.
[I may make a separate thread on this to discuss]

Enoch. The prophecy of the 10 weeks

3. And Enoch began to recount from the books and said;
I was born the seventh in the first week,
While judgement and righteousness still endured.
4. And after me there shall arise in the second week great wickedness,
And deceit shall have sprung up;
And in it there shall be the first end. And in it a man shall be saved;
And after it is ended unrighteousness shall grow up;
And a law shall be made for the sinners.
5. And after that in the third week at it’s close
A man shall be elected as the plant of righteous Judgement.
And his posterity shall become the plant of righteousness for evermore.
6. And after that in the fourth week, at it’s close,
Visions of the holy and righteous shall be seen.
And a law for all generations and an enclosure shall be made for them.
7. And after that in the fifth week, at it’s close,
The house of glory and dominion shall be built for ever.
8. And after that in the sixth week all who live in it shall be blinded,
And the hearts of all of them shall godlessly forsake wisdom.
And in it a man shall ascend; and at it’s close the house of dominion shall be burnt with fire,
And the race of the chosen root shall be dispersed.
9. And after that in the seventh week shall an apostate generation arise,
and many shall be it’s deeds, And all it’s deed shall be apostate.
10. And at it’s close shall be elected The elect righteous of the eternal plant of righteousness,
To receive sevenfold instruction concerning all His creation.

12. And after that there shall be another, the eighth week, that of righteousness,
And a sword shall be given to it that a righteous Judgement may be executed on the oppressors,
And the sinners shall be delivered into the hands of the righteous.
13. And at it’s close they shall acquire houses through their righteousness,
And a house shall be built for the Great King in glory for evermore,
And all mankind shall look to the path of uprightness.
14. And after that in the ninth week, the righteous judgment
shall be revealed to the whole world,
And all the works of the godless shall vanish from all the earth.
And the world shall be written down for destruction.
15. And after this, in the tenth week in the seventh part,
There shall be the great eternal judgement, in which
He will execute vengeance amongst the angels.
16. And the first heaven shall depart and pass away,
and a new heaven shall appear, and all the powers of the heavens shall give sevenfold light.
17. And after that there will be many weeks without number forever.

This is the end of the Apocalypse of the ten weeks.
As you can see, like all the prophecies of God it is coming to pass exactly as it was supposed to. God is still in charge. Here we have yet another word from God that this is the time all the world has been waiting for. .......................