The Book of Enoch

[SG9]

[edit, general to eschatology forums and covering what is the first book of eschatology] Enoch is the first book of eschatology, and I post on eschatology mainly in this forum. It is not possible to truly understand eschatology without the first book of eschatology corroborating and shedding light on the many references from Torah to Revelation.
Without Enoch's book, one is walking in darkness trying to invent meanings for obscure passages in Torah and through to the end of Rev, which meanings invented have no connection to what is written already, in the Book of Enoch.

Sorry that upsets those who don't really come here in this forum to discuss eschatology, anyway [or even general theology as is written in the sacred Scriptures], but to deny what is written even in the books they do accept.
Scholars are few and far between, here.

Dear sister, looking from your perspective, I see Genesis as the First book or thing to consider for eternal Life as YHWH tells us that He makes Known the Ending from the Beginning, and each hold the Identity as Father and Son.

Was Enoch the first Adam that were created on day-6, both male and female?

Was Enoch the first Adam who was made for the Eve?

Was Enoch the first Image of the Seed that was Created in Genesis?

You have a lot of truths, and I admire that but what is your point and agenda with Enoch? We must know what the Beginning was so that we can identify the Ending, which means the true Christ or else we remain in darkness.

I just wanted to show you what the Bible says about this and what the First is all about. IMHO, Enoch is valid, he is legit, and all that is written is profitable but not all people believe alike, nor use the same materials, nor understand some or part of what they present or know of others.

It's a tough world and yet it's so simple to keep the directive that we are given in simple terms.

YHWH makes known to us the things of the End by first knowing all about the Father, and Enoch is a wonderful testimony when rightly interpreted. I don't see the same things as you do in all of Enoch therefore, I fear that you are defending something false.

BTW, the end-time endeavor for all Christians is to look for YHWH renowned in all the world as it is written in Daniel. The focus is continually directed away from the Father in our age because of deceptions, and here it appears that the emphatic homage is given to Enoch, instead. I can't address every detail, neither the things that you will say in reply. I'm focusing on the Will of our Father to be done, and I see it as the Son and the Father giving Glory, One unto the Other; the Two will become One, again. This is in the hidden manna of the Apocrypha. I understand. thanks

May YHWH bless you

 

[yeshuasavedme]

D... We must know what the Beginning was so that we can identify the Ending, which means the true Christ or else we remain in darkness.
...

The Torah was written for Israel, by Moses, in obedience to God's command, so Torah is "thus saith YHWH".
But before Torah, there were the writings of the Patriarchs -and the Book of Enoch.
Moses used those writings to compile the Torah by the direction of the Holy Spirit. Moses also redacted the histories of the Patriarchs in a history book called the Record of the Upright, and I believe it was compiled by Moses himself as his own history is quite detailed in it which is just referred to in the Torah and NT.
The Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in the middle of the last century prove the Patriarchs all wrote their own histories and dreams and God's dealings and promises to them. Those were used by Moses, who had access to all of them in his day, and his writing of the Torah includes things of those histories in them but does not explain them historically, because they were already written.
Torah is a work of the Holy Spirit, and one reading it in its early days would have known the foundational writings that backed the things referred to in it, but not retold, because they were already written.
As the book of Job proves, and as Paul states in Romans 1, men knew who God was. Job tells us of God's law, before Moses.

Noah passed the book of Enoch on to his sons, and Abraham received it from Noah and Shem, in whose home he lived for about 30 years, while hiding from Nimrod who wanted to kill him.
In the DSS manuscripts, in what is called the Genesis Apocryphon, , we read Abraham's own testimony that he read from the book of Enoch to the wise men of Pharaoh when they returned Sarah and asked him to teach them "wisdom, values, and truth".

Shem did not die until after Isaac was born, and Isaac did not die until after Joseph was in Egypt. Because of the overlapping of the lives of the Patriarchs like that, from before the flood to the going into Egypt/Mitzraim of Israel, anyone who assumes the Torah was the beginning of God's dealing with and revealing Himself to men is very much an assumption of ignorance not based on the histories which are easy -in this day and age- to prove.

 

[SG9]

The Torah was written for Israel, by Moses, in obedience to God's command, so Torah is "thus saith YHWH".
But before Torah, there were the writings of the Patriarchs -and the Book of Enoch.
Moses used those writings to compile the Torah by the direction of the Holy Spirit. Moses also redacted the histories of the Patriarchs in a history book called the Record of the Upright, and I believe it was compiled by Moses himself as his own history is quite detailed in it which is just referred to in the Torah and NT.
The Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in the middle of the last century prove the Patriarchs all wrote their own histories and dreams and God's dealings and promises to them. Those were used by Moses, who had access to all of them in his day, and his writing of the Torah includes things of those histories in them but does not explain them historically, because they were already written.
Torah is a work of the Holy Spirit, and one reading it in its early days would have known the foundational writings that backed the things referred to in it, but not retold, because they were already written.
As the book of Job proves, and as Paul states in Romans 1, men knew who God was. Job tells us of God's law, before Moses.

Noah passed the book of Enoch on to his sons, and Abraham received it from Noah and Shem, in whose home he lived for about 30 years, while hiding from Nimrod who wanted to kill him.
In the DSS manuscripts, in what is called the Genesis Apocryphon, , we read Abraham's own testimony that he read from the book of Enoch to the wise men of Pharaoh when they returned Sarah and asked him to teach them "wisdom, values, and truth".

Shem did not die until after Isaac was born, and Isaac did not die until after Joseph was in Egypt. Because of the overlapping of the lives of the Patriarchs like that, from before the flood to the going into Egypt/Mitzraim of Israel, anyone who assumes the Torah was the beginning of God's dealing with and revealing Himself to men is very much an assumption of ignorance not based on the histories which are easy -in this day and age- to prove.

I do understand, and I appreciate all that you have and say, it's very true, as I may say even from my POV, but the whole theme repeats in the 'last-day' generation. All that you present is repeated in a modern-day scenario, and it are the watchers who are able to put it all in parallel by seeing the parallel's by the signs, times, and seasons, etc.

You are a wonderful mind, I am speaking of current prophecy, present-day truths. My point was also, the Beginning reveals the ending, and what you present is in the past. May YHWH bless you

 

[NannaNae]

The Torah was written for Israel, by Moses, in obedience to God's command, so Torah is "thus saith YHWH".
But before Torah, there were the writings of the Patriarchs -and the Book of Enoch.
Moses used those writings to compile the Torah by the direction of the Holy Spirit. Moses also redacted the histories of the Patriarchs in a history book called the Record of the Upright, and I believe it was compiled by Moses himself as his own history is quite detailed in it which is just referred to in the Torah and NT.
The Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in the middle of the last century prove the Patriarchs all wrote their own histories and dreams and God's dealings and promises to them. Those were used by Moses, who had access to all of them in his day, and his writing of the Torah includes things of those histories in them but does not explain them historically, because they were already written.
Torah is a work of the Holy Spirit, and one reading it in its early days would have known the foundational writings that backed the things referred to in it, but not retold, because they were already written.
As the book of Job proves, and as Paul states in Romans 1, men knew who God was. Job tells us of God's law, before Moses.

Noah passed the book of Enoch on to his sons, and Abraham received it from Noah and Shem, in whose home he lived for about 30 years, while hiding from Nimrod who wanted to kill him.
In the DSS manuscripts, in what is called the Genesis Apocryphon, , we read Abraham's own testimony that he read from the book of Enoch to the wise men of Pharaoh when they returned Sarah and asked him to teach them "wisdom, values, and truth".

Shem did not die until after Isaac was born, and Isaac did not die until after Joseph was in Egypt. Because of the overlapping of the lives of the Patriarchs like that, from before the flood to the going into Egypt/Mitzraim of Israel, anyone who assumes the Torah was the beginning of God's dealing with and revealing Himself to men is very much an assumption of ignorance not based on the histories which are easy -in this day and age- to prove.

that is sooo cool.. well I am of the camp that all and any interaction between man and God/ Jesus /spirit should be recorded in the histories and not be considered "extra biblical ", just because some people don't understand it. or are incapable of understanding it .

total complete and thorough ignorance is the results of the fall.

I suspect that truth and wisdom to discern truth and real history is proof of his life in us.

so let's get on with it " Come let us reason together though your sins be as scarlet they shall be made white as snow" it is fighting it out with HIM that changes us..
yahoo for change!! Yahoo for a God who is not impotent , but just patient!

 

[Gennadi]

I found the video on YouTube (English text, Images, Music)
"Message to the Unborn 2"

Tags: Message of the Watchers, Book of Enoch, calendar, decryption.
This video shows the process of deciphering the Message of the Watchers.
Now the millennia-old story begun by Enoch is completed.

 

[DeaconDean]

Did you know, that we can learn a few things from Enoch?

My own opinion is its good reading, but I do not take it as fact.

We can learn that the antediluvians were in height, as long as Noah's ark!

"Whose stature was each three hundred cubits." -Enoch 7:2

God told Noah the length of the Ark was to be:

"And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits" -Gen. 6:15 (KJV)

One cubit =18 inches, or 1.5 feet.

300 x 1.5 = 450

According to Enoch, the antediluvians were 450 feet tall.

God told Noah the ark was to be 450 feet long.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

Did you know, that we can learn a few things from Enoch?

My own opinion is its good reading, but I do not take it as fact.

We can learn that the antediluvians were in height, as long as Noah's ark!

"Whose stature was each three hundred cubits." -Enoch 7:2

God told Noah the length of the Ark was to be:

"And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits" -Gen. 6:15 (KJV)

One cubit =18 inches, or 1.5 feet.

300 x 1.5 = 450

According to Enoch, the antediluvians were 450 feet tall.

God told Noah the ark was to be 450 feet long.

God Bless

Till all are one.

but I do not take it as fact.

What do you mean, that you don't take it as fact?

 

[DeaconDean]

What do you mean, that you don't take it as fact?

Its an apocryphal book.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

Its an apocryphal book.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean, that it's an apocryphal book?

 

[DeaconDean]

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean, that it's an apocryphal book?

"Composition

1: Enoch Apocryphal: "Of questionable authorship or authenticity" (American Heritage Dictionary). Apocryphal also refers to writings that are secret - from the Greek crypto "to hide". "The Hekhalot [visionary Temple] literature is a bizarre conglomeration of Jewish esoteric and revelatory texts [including the Book of Enoch] produced sometime between late antiquity and the early Middle Ages. The documents have strong connections with earlier apocalyptic and gnostic literature and claim to describe the self-induced spiritual experiences of the ‘descenders to the chariot’ that permitted these men to view Ezekiel’s chariot vision (the Merkavah ) for themselves, as well as to gain control of angels and a perfect mastery of Torah through theurgy.

(2) Authorship of 1 Enoch "The Judaic Law of the Pentateuch had come to be conceived as the final and supreme revelation of God ... there was now no room for independent representatives ... such as the post-Exilic prophets. As Zechariah made clear in his parable of the Foolish Shepherd, ‘a man could, or ought to be put to death for setting himself up as a prophet.’" - Ian Wilson, Jesus, The Evidence, p. 62 "Thus the names of pseudonymous authors were used, of Isaiah or even ancient Enoch." - Chris King, "~The Apocalyptic Tradition

1 Enoch is an unmistakable product of Hellenistic civilization. "A world view so encyclopaediac that it embraced the geography of heaven and earth, astronomy, meteorology, medicine was no part of Jewish tradition - but was familiar to educated Greeks, but attempting to emulate and surpass Greek wisdom, by having an integrating divine plan for destiny, elaborated through an angelic host with which Enoch is in communication through his mystical travels." - Chris King, "~The Apocalyptic Tradition
"

Source

That is what I mean.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

"Composition

1: Enoch Apocryphal: "Of questionable authorship or authenticity" (American Heritage Dictionary). Apocryphal also refers to writings that are secret - from the Greek crypto "to hide". "The Hekhalot [visionary Temple] literature is a bizarre conglomeration of Jewish esoteric and revelatory texts [including the Book of Enoch] produced sometime between late antiquity and the early Middle Ages. The documents have strong connections with earlier apocalyptic and gnostic literature and claim to describe the self-induced spiritual experiences of the ‘descenders to the chariot’ that permitted these men to view Ezekiel’s chariot vision (the Merkavah ) for themselves, as well as to gain control of angels and a perfect mastery of Torah through theurgy."

Source

That is what I mean.

God Bless

Till all are one.

When you mentioned that it is good reading and that one can learn a few things from it, are you saying that it can be trusted to learn from?

Secondarily, do you believe that Enoch, who walked with God, and God who "took", wrote it?

 

[DeaconDean]

When you mentioned that it is good reading and that one can learn a few things from it, are you saying that it can be trusted to learn from?

Like I said, it makes interesting reading, and you might can infer from Enoch's account of the antediluvians, that they were 450 feet tall.

Secondarily, do you believe that Enoch, who walked with God, and God who "took", wrote it?

Personally, no.

Authorship is questionable at best.

That is just like several NT apocryphia books I've read.

The Apocalypse of Peter and the Apocalypse of Paul.

If, and that's a big if, they are true, both support the notion of varying degrees of punishment in hell according to the sin.

They all, make interesting reading. But with authorship in question, personally I would not teach them for truth.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

I would also add that even the book of Jasher, authorship is questionable.

In it, we read Moses, while on the run from Egypt, while in Ethiopia, first ran into Pharaohs magicians Jannes and Jambres. (Jasher chapter 79)

So when Moses went back to Egypt to confront Pharaoh, Moses was already familiar with them.

Like I said, it makes for interesting reading, but I cannot teach it for truth.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

Like I said, it makes interesting reading, and you might can infer from Enoch's account of the antediluvians, that they were 450 feet tall.



Personally, no.

Authorship is questionable at best.

That is just like several NT apocryphia books I've read.

The Apocalypse of Peter and the Apocalypse of Paul.

If, and that's a big if, they are true, both support the notion of varying degrees of punishment in hell according to the sin.

They all, make interesting reading. But with authorship in question, personally I would teach them for truth.

God Bless

Till all are one.

What comes to mind for me (amongst other things in it) is that there is an angel called Phanuel that is set over repentence and its name means "face of God", for instance.

Would a man who walked with God to the degree that God "took" him, write it?

 

[DeaconDean]

What comes to mind for me (amongst other things in it) is that there is an angel called Phanuel that is set over repentence and its name means "face of God", for instance.

Would a man who walked with God to the degree that God "took" him, write it?

Would a man who walked with God and then got took tell us that certain metals were withheld from man because they used them for evil?

Where do we learn of an angel named Moroni?

Its not in the canon, neither is there any teching in the canon on an angel Moroni.

Plus, we do know this:

"The oldest known Jewish work not included in the Bible is the Book of Enoch. This is a complex work, written in the third (or perhaps even the late fourth) century BCE, after the return from the Babylonian Exile and the establishment of the Second Jewish Commonwealth (6th-5th centuries BCE) and before the Maccabean revolt in 172 BCE. The oldest copies of the Book of Enoch, dating from the third century BCE, were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Source

By the way, how many years would that be after God took Enoch, and the time it was written?

Did Enoch come back just long enough to write that book and then God take him back?

Now if want to believe that book written in 2-300 BC, was written by Enoch himself, be my guest.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

Would a man who walked with God and then got took tell us that certain metals were withheld from man because they used them for evil?

Where do we learn of an angel named Moroni?

Its not in the canon, neither is there any teching in the canon on an angel Moroni.

Plus, we do know this:

"The oldest known Jewish work not included in the Bible is the Book of Enoch. This is a complex work, written in the third (or perhaps even the late fourth) century BCE, after the return from the Babylonian Exile and the establishment of the Second Jewish Commonwealth (6th-5th centuries BCE) and before the Maccabean revolt in 172 BCE. The oldest copies of the Book of Enoch, dating from the third century BCE, were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Source

By the way, how many years would that be after God took Enoch, and the time it was written?

Did Enoch come back just long enough to write that book and then God take him back?

Now if want to believe that book written in 2-300 BC, was written by Enoch himself, be my guest.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Just by reading the book of enoch just a little, it is clear that it is the antithesis to anything of a man of God, let alone God Himself.

It's referred to as a doctrine of demons.

Why is that?

 

[DeaconDean]

It's referred to as a doctrine of demons.

Why is that?

The Book of Enoch, chapter 15:8-12 speaks of "giants", "spirits of heaven". Often people say these were/are the Nephilim and when they bred with the daughters of men these were the antediluvians.

"And when referring to those Nephilim of Gen 6:4 that according to 1 En 15:9 originate from the Watchers in heaven,"

Supposedly:

"the book explains the origins of demons and the fall of certain angels that fornicated with women, that also explains, witchcraft, drugs, and our technology and so called UFO and alien sightings. (The book of Enoch says that the fallen angels taught humans these things.)"

Maybe that's why.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[brinny]

The Book of Enoch, chapter 15:8-12 speaks of "giants", "spirits of heaven". Often people say these were/are the Nephilim and when they bred with the daughters of men these were the antediluvians.

"And when referring to those Nephilim of Gen 6:4 that according to 1 En 15:9 originate from the Watchers in heaven,"

Supposedly:

"the book explains the origins of demons and the fall of certain angels that fornicated with women, that also explains, witchcraft, drugs, and our technology and so called UFO and alien sightings. (The book of Enoch says that the fallen angels taught humans these things.)"

Maybe that's why.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Is it of the living God?

 

[DeaconDean]

Is it of the living God?

I'm not gonna continue to debate.

The Book of Enoch has been shown to have been written long, long after Enoch was taken.

Its not in the canon of scripture.

You might could pick a few tid-bits here and there, but to teach it as truth, I cannot in good and clear conscious do it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

If we're going do that, why not accept Tobit as canonical, and cast spells to control demons? (Tobit 6:5-8)

God Bless

TIll all are one.