Like I said, if you think it's ok for angels to intercede, don't throw up a fuss when others talk about Saints or Mary doing the same thing.
Upvote
0
The Book of Enoch
- Thread starter Stryder06
- Start date
Like I said, if you think it's ok for angels to intercede, don't throw up a fuss when others talk about Saints or Mary doing the same thing.
yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
The words are different.
He wanted to make the angels mediators, not intercessors, by his word switch.
to intercede is "To ask for, to plead for, to desire from God, to petition on behalf of another, spec. for the salvation of souls or for the life of a loved one or the well being of a loved one -and specific ones under us, related to us, or those whom the LORD lays a burden for us to intercede for, to labor in prayer for, until "Christ be formed in them"; or the burden is lifted and they are saved from whatever we are burdened to pray about. and that is a different word than "mediate" which is based on a covenant..
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Legal is mediator.
Love is intercessor.
Christ does both.
Upvote
0
Lion King
Veni, vidi, vici
- Mar 29, 2011
- 7,360
- 578
- Faith
- Christian Seeker
- Marital Status
- Single
They are D.E.A.D. Moses, Mary etc cannot mediate or intercede for anyone because they are dust in the wind. We have Jesus Christ for that, since He is the only one who lives forever.
And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
You are a priest forever.
22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Hebrews 7:20-24
PS. Oh, and I know you SDA folks believe that Moses has been resurrected and is alive somewhere in heaven.
Upvote
0
yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
Amen.
I said this to him:
You have got it backwards. It is the living in spirit who intercede for the dead in spirit, not the dead in body who intercede for the living in body
Upvote
0
Lion King
Veni, vidi, vici
- Mar 29, 2011
- 7,360
- 578
- Faith
- Christian Seeker
- Marital Status
- Single
Why then serves the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19
(At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said: Deuteronomy 5:5
Didn't the Scriptures call Moses a mediator of the Old Covenant?
Upvote
0
yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
I knew someone [very close to me] who, a couple decades ago read the book "God's Smuggler" and had a burden to do the same thing, but to go into China.
He did do that for about 4 years, living outside the country over there, and entering many times a year with Bibles to distribute to those Christians who meet in secret because it is life or death to be a true follower of Jesus Christ openly in China.
Once, when he returned he visited me and had a video taken over there in the different house Churches he visited. He would not let that out of his possession as it would mean persecution, preison, or death for those who were in the video.
The video was of prayers being prayed by those believers in hidden places, and they were pleading with strong tears and crying so that tears ran down their cheeks in that prayer meeting -and their prayers rose up to heaven with a sweet anointing one could feel. while the video was played, the person who was showing it to me pointed out different persons in it praying, who had endured great persecutions, had been in prisons, had lost everything, and yet they were crying out with power and many tears in prayer.
He also showed many of them to me as the video played who had been healed of various afflictions, like blindness, deafness, and etc, and some who had demons cast out.
I asked what they were praying about, and he said; "they are praying fortheir persecutors, that Jesus will save them, and for their loved ones to be saved!"
That, sir, is intercession, with the love of God!
He did do that for about 4 years, living outside the country over there, and entering many times a year with Bibles to distribute to those Christians who meet in secret because it is life or death to be a true follower of Jesus Christ openly in China.
Once, when he returned he visited me and had a video taken over there in the different house Churches he visited. He would not let that out of his possession as it would mean persecution, preison, or death for those who were in the video.
The video was of prayers being prayed by those believers in hidden places, and they were pleading with strong tears and crying so that tears ran down their cheeks in that prayer meeting -and their prayers rose up to heaven with a sweet anointing one could feel. while the video was played, the person who was showing it to me pointed out different persons in it praying, who had endured great persecutions, had been in prisons, had lost everything, and yet they were crying out with power and many tears in prayer.
He also showed many of them to me as the video played who had been healed of various afflictions, like blindness, deafness, and etc, and some who had demons cast out.
I asked what they were praying about, and he said; "they are praying fortheir persecutors, that Jesus will save them, and for their loved ones to be saved!"
That, sir, is intercession, with the love of God!
Upvote
0
yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
Yes, I thought I pasted that Scripture on my post!
Moses also, as a type of Christ and as a priest and king over Israel, was a mediator -he also interceded for them.
Upvote
0
yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
I did put it there, but it may have got erased when adding verses....anyway; "yes".
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
In the Book of Enoch there are four presences who stand in the presence of God: Gabriel, Raphael, Penuel, and Michael.
Those four are named in the Torah and in the book of Tobit -a second canon story.
Raphael is over the wounds of men, for healing, and we also see that in Matthew, "an angel" went down at a certain season, and stirred the waters of the pool of Bethesda, and first one in was healed. This also validates Enoch, as Raphael "is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men".
Jhn 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Penuel is the angel of the face, and he was with Israel in the wilderness for 40 years, and he invoked the name of God over Jacob, in Genesis 32, and Jacob named that place "Penuel, for I have seen God and did not die".
Gabriel also validates Enoch when he is just a bit peeved with Zecharias when Zecharias asks him for a sign to know that what Gabriel just told him about having a son, named John& etc, would come to pass.
"I am Gabriel that stands in the presence of God" said Gabriel, and gave him a sign -though not one Zecharias was pleased with and which made him humble for nine months and a couple days; but the fact that Gabriel had the power to judge Zecharias by making him dumb for nine months corroborates with Enoch; and also, that Gabriel "stands before God" corroborates Enoch.
Those four are named in the Torah and in the book of Tobit -a second canon story.
Raphael is over the wounds of men, for healing, and we also see that in Matthew, "an angel" went down at a certain season, and stirred the waters of the pool of Bethesda, and first one in was healed. This also validates Enoch, as Raphael "is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men".
Jhn 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Penuel is the angel of the face, and he was with Israel in the wilderness for 40 years, and he invoked the name of God over Jacob, in Genesis 32, and Jacob named that place "Penuel, for I have seen God and did not die".
Gabriel also validates Enoch when he is just a bit peeved with Zecharias when Zecharias asks him for a sign to know that what Gabriel just told him about having a son, named John& etc, would come to pass.
"I am Gabriel that stands in the presence of God" said Gabriel, and gave him a sign -though not one Zecharias was pleased with and which made him humble for nine months and a couple days
; but the fact that Gabriel had the power to judge Zecharias by making him dumb for nine months corroborates with Enoch; and also, that Gabriel "stands before God" corroborates Enoch.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
yeshuasavedme
Senior Veteran
In the Book of Enoch there are four presences who stand in the presence of God: Gabriel, Raphael, Penuel, and Michael.
Those four are named in the Torah and in the book of Tobit -a second canon story.
Raphael is over the wounds of men, for healing, and we also see that in Matthew, "an angel" went down at a certain season, and stirred the waters of the pool of Bethesda, and first one in was healed. This also validates Enoch, as Raphael "is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men".
Jhn 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Penuel is the angel of the face, and he was with Israel in the wilderness for 40 years, and he invoked the name of God over Jacob, in Genesis 32, and Jacob named that place "Penuel, for I have seen God and did not die".
Gabriel also validates Enoch when he is just a bit peeved with Zecharias. when Zecharias asks him for a sign to know that what Gabriel just told him about having a son, named John& etc, would come to pass.
"I am Gabriel that stands in the presence of God" said Gabriel, and gave him a sign -though not one Zecharias was pleased with and which made him humble for nine months and a couple days
Enoch 40:
The Four Presences
2And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.
3And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.
4The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.
5And the second voice I heard blessing the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits.
6And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits.
7And I heard the fourth voice fending off the satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth.
8After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: "Who are these four presences which I have seen and whose words I have heard and written down?"
9And he said to me: "This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering:
and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael:
and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel:
and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel."
10And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.
[/QUOTE]
Rev 12: 0 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
Upvote
0
Gnarwhal
☩ Broman Catholic ☩
- Oct 31, 2008
- 20,393
- 12,081
- 37
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
In the Book of Enoch there are four presences who stand in the presence of God: Gabriel, Raphael, Penuel, and Michael.
Those four are named in the Torah and in the book of Tobit -a second canon story.
Raphael is over the wounds of men, for healing, and we also see that in Matthew, "an angel" went down at a certain season, and stirred the waters of the pool of Bethesda, and first one in was healed. This also validates Enoch, as Raphael "is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men".
Jhn 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Penuel is the angel of the face, and he was with Israel in the wilderness for 40 years, and he invoked the name of God over Jacob, in Genesis 32, and Jacob named that place "Penuel, for I have seen God and did not die".
Gabriel also validates Enoch when he is just a bit peeved with Zecharias when Zecharias asks him for a sign to know that what Gabriel just told him about having a son, named John& etc, would come to pass.
"I am Gabriel that stands in the presence of God" said Gabriel, and gave him a sign -though not one Zecharias was pleased with and which made him humble for nine months and a couple days
Does your church teach out of Enoch as much as you try to? Your bullhorning is getting tiresome.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Her church, and every other church, probably could teach out of Enoch the majority of the time. His books talk about antiquity and God's will for us. It talks about His rules, the future and fate of Israel, the Messiah and His advent(s), the Kingdom, and the demise and fall of the Church body.
When you consider:
1) The NT is a mere witness to what Christ did and said - things that, mind you, are what God told Israel already
2) The OT prophets followed the word of God, given to them by previous prophets and priests, given by their fathers, given by Noah, given to him by Lamech and Enoch - Godly men who obeyed God without written word on stone or ink
3) Most of the NT is Paul's response to [gentile] Churches, answering specific questions about Christ, salvation, and obeying God
4) The bible canon was chosen by men, many with specific political or ecumenical agendas - removing books that were once held dear by them, and adding books that were once considered uninspired.
5) 66 books in the bible canon, and that is it - really?
6) BoE in many places say the same things the prophets say because they studied their texts (Noah's, Enoch's, etc.)
7) Christians cant even make up their minds about what in the canon they are supposed to follow/take literally/reject: how can any insightful as a community be made about the authenticity of yet another book (especially concerning its inspiration, and accuracy.)
When you consider these things - especially 7) - then it should be easy to understand why the book is in the Ethiopian canon, and why more and more people are questioning why this book is not in canon, and what exactly is in it. It is worse to keep information from people - robbing them of the conscious chance to make a decision than it is for a single person to err. If you hide knowledge, you destroy multiple souls - yours, and the person(s) the knowledge is kept from. It doesn't matter if the knowledge is right or wrong - the dicision to divide the truth and discern is on the individual (with guidance or lack there of of the Holy Spirit.) It isn't the responsibility of a group of humans that decide what is best for other humans. You may as well grab knee pads if you are comfortable with people dictating spiritual direction of other people
Upvote
0
