The Book of Enoch

[Tamara224]

I am interested in hearing what everyone in this forum thinks about the Book of Enoch...

Have you heard of it?

Have you read it?

Do you think it should be considered Scripture? Why or why not?

I have heard of it before and never really considered it. My dad recently started reading it, though, and he said it has really opened his eyes about some things, especially when talking about angels, demons, fallen angels, etc.

So, I was wondering what everyone thinks... Should we start including the Book of Enoch in our canon?

Here's one source discussing the book:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm

 

[shyanne]

Hummm...the book of Enoch is mention in the Bible....

as distinguished from the son of Cain, the third from Adam. He is spoken of in the catalogue of Old Testament worthies in the Epistle to the (Hebrews 11:5). When he was translated, only Adam, so far as recorded, had as yet died a natural death, and Noah was not yet born. Mention is made of Enoch's prophesying only in Jude 1:14.


i think if the apostles knew about the book....than we should know...but thats only how i feel


misty

 

[jeolmstead]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

The Book of Enoch is a title given to several works that attribute themselves to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah; that is, Enoch son of Jared (Genesis 5:18). (There are also three other characters named Enoch in the Bible: the son of Cain (Gen. 4:17), the son of Midian (Gen. 25:4), and the son of Reuben (Gen. 46:9; Ex. 6:14). The last two are transcribed "Hanoch" in the modern translations).
Most commonly, the phrase Book of Enoch refers to 1 Enoch, which is wholly extant only in the Ethiopic language. There are also 2 other books called Enoch, 2 Enoch (surviving only in Old Slavonic, c. 1st century; Eng. trans. by R. H. Charles (1896) [1][2]) and 3 Enoch (surviving in Hebrew, c. 5th-6th century[3].) The numbering of these texts has been applied by scholars to distinguish the texts from one another. The remainder of this article deals with 1 Enoch only.
Most modern scholars consider the Enochic literature to be pseudepigraphal.
Whilst this book does not form part of the Canon of Scripture for the larger Chistian Churches, various groups, including the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Coptic Church of Alexandria, regard parts or all of 1 Enoch to be inspired Scripture. The currently known texts of this work are usually dated to Maccabean times (ca. 160s BC).

 

[jeolmstead]

Canonicity

The book is referred to, and quoted, in Jude, 1:14–15 (KJV):
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these [men], saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Compare this with Enoch 1:9, translated from the Ethiopian:
And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him. The Greek language text was known to, and quoted by nearly all, Church Fathers. A number of the Church Fathers thought it to be an inspired work, particularly Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian, based on its quotation in Jude. However, some later Fathers denied the canonicity of the book and some even considered the letter of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an "apocryphal" work (Cf. Gerome, Catal. Script. Eccles. 4.).
The Jewish Sanhedrin at Yavneh c. 90 AD removed this book from its Scriptures. Partly due to this, the book was discredited after the (Christian) Council of Laodicea in 364. The Greek text was subsequently lost.
The early Christian father Tertullian wrote c. 200 AD that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews, because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ.[3]
Some excerpts are given by the 8th century monk George Syncellus in his chronography, which are published in Dillmann's translation, pp. 82-86. In the 9th century it is listed as an apocryphon of the New Testament by Patriarch Nicephorus Cf. Niceph. (ed. Dindorf), I. 787.

 

[Tamara224]

The following really caught my attention:

Despite its unknown origins, Christians once accepted the words of this Book of Enoch as authentic scripture, especially the part about the fallen angels and their prophesied judgment. In fact, many of the key concepts used by Jesus Christ himself seem directly connected to terms and ideas in the Book of Enoch. Thus, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Jesus had not only studied the book, but also respected it highly enough to adopt and elaborate on its specific descriptions of the coming kingdom and its theme of inevitable judgment descending upon "the wicked" - the term most often used in the Old Testament to describe the Watchers.​

There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. Over a hundred phrases in the New Testament find precedents in the Book of Enoch. Another remarkable bit of evidence for the early Christians' acceptance of the Book of Enoch was for many years buried under the King James Bible's mistranslation of Luke 9:35, describing the transfiguration of Christ: "And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, 'This is my beloved Son: hear him." Apparently the translator here wished to make this verse agree with a similar verse in Matthew and Mark. But Luke's verse in the original Greek reads: "This is my Son, the Elect One (from the Greek ho eklelegmenos, lit., "the elect one"): hear him." The "Elect One" is a most significant term (found fourteen times) in the Book of Enoch. If the book was indeed known to the apostles of Christ, with its abundant descriptions of the Elect One who should "sit upon the throne of glory" and the Elect One who should "dwell in the midst of them," then the great scriptural authenticity is accorded to the Book of Enoch when the "voice out of the cloud" tells the apostles, "This is my Son, the Elect One" - the one promised in the Book of Enoch.​

Can it be true that Jesus considered the book of Enoch to be Scripture? If so... shouldn't we also?

 

[jeolmstead]

My first question would be: Is there something in the Book that we lack in cannonized scripture?

John O.

 

[Tamara224]

My first question would be: Is there something in the Book that we lack in cannonized scripture?

John O.

Good question...

I think that answer would have to be yes... I haven't read it through yet...but have skimmed a bit and there are several tidbits that I don't ever remember hearing about or reading before. But is the 'new' stuff something we need?

And if it's something we need... why didn't God make sure everyone had it?

Or maybe the stuff in Enoch will not present completely new ideas...only expand and develop or provide background info for the ideas we've already been presented?

If nothing else, we'd have a whole new source of proof-texts! I've already found a couple I like. jk

 

[jeolmstead]

Well, Jude quotes it....it's hard to step around that.....

 

[Trish1947]

I have read it. My problem with it is that it's easy to be understood by all. You don't pickup in it's reading, and flavor of the time it was written, things that we might not understand. I believe many texts have been written, but not all are inspired by the Holy Spirit. But all scripture is given for repoof, instruction etc. So it doesn't suprise me that Jude referred to it. I don't believe that it was totally mans endeavor without the Spirit, but an undertaking of God, to get inspired writings to the masses.

 

[Tamara224]

I have read it. My problem with it is that it's easy to be understood by all. You don't pickup in it's reading, and flavor of the time it was written, things that we might not understand. I believe many texts have been written, but not all are inspired by the Holy Spirit. But all scripture is given for repoof, instruction etc. So it doesn't suprise me that Jude referred to it. I don't believe that it was totally mans endeavor without the Spirit, but an undertaking of God, to get inspired writings to the masses.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood you... You have a problem with the book because it is easily understood by everyone? Can you elaborate on that?

 

[lismore]

My first question would be: Is there something in the Book that we lack in cannonized scripture?

John O.

The book of Enoch says war and weaponry was invented by one of the fallen angels. Many believers today think war is a good thing.

 

[ProAmerican]

I am interested in hearing what everyone in this forum thinks about the Book of Enoch...

Have you heard of it?

Have you read it?

Do you think it should be considered Scripture? Why or why not?

I have heard of it before and never really considered it. My dad recently started reading it, though, and he said it has really opened his eyes about some things, especially when talking about angels, demons, fallen angels, etc.

So, I was wondering what everyone thinks... Should we start including the Book of Enoch in our canon?

Here's one source discussing the book:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm

What is interesting about the Book of Enoch, is that Jude, in Jude verses 14 and 15, quotes 1 Enoch 2:1, and also quotes from a Jewish Apocryphal book some have entitled The Assumption of Moses.

Now, the book of Enoch was written in the 2nd century B.C to the 1st century A.D. - somewhere in there.

The man who wrote the book of Enoch claims in 1 Enoch 1:1- 1 Enoch 2:1, to have been given (by angels sent from God) what Enoch, the seventh from Adam, saw in a vision centuries before.

Now, what this all means, is that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, had a vision from God long ago. Way down the road, historically speaking, a man claims that angels were sent to him by God to give him the vision that Enoch the seventh from Adam had. Then, way down the road, historically speaking, Jude writes down (in verse 14) what that man living in the 2nd century B.C. to the first century A.D. wrote in the Book of Enoch.

The man who wrote 1 Enoch, which Jude quotes, never claims to be Enoch, the seventh from Adam.

Does something seem fishy here to you or anyone else?

Read it here for yourself:

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/1enoch.html

Click on: Book of Enoch (Richard Laurence)

 

[Trish1947]

Sorry, I think I misunderstood you... You have a problem with the book because it is easily understood by everyone? Can you elaborate on that?

It's too easy to understand without revelation. For example: We all believe that the book of Revelation is inspired by the Spirit of God. But can any of us say that we all understand it perfectly. We get the gist of everything, that in the end God will put down all rule and authority, and the Saints are victorious. But do we know exactly who the beasts are, is some of the book, yet to be revealed by the Spirit? In other words, even people without the Spirit would understand the Book of Enoch.

 

[Tamara224]

The man who wrote 1 Enoch, which Jude quotes, never claims to be Enoch, the seventh from Adam.

Does something seem fishy here to you or anyone else?

Read it here for yourself:

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/1enoch.html

Click on: Book of Enoch (Richard Laurence)

Um... I'm a little lost. So, the guy who wrote Enoch wasn't Enoch but a guy who said the angels told him what Enoch saw?

Do you think this hearsay invalidates the book of Enoch from being Scripture?

 

[ProAmerican]

Um... I'm a little lost. So, the guy who wrote Enoch wasn't Enoch but a guy who said the angels told him what Enoch saw?

Do you think this hearsay invalidates the book of Enoch from being Scripture?

It is an incontrovertible fact that the man who wrote the book of 1 Enoch, which Jude quotes from, never claimed to be Enoch, the seventh from adam. Actually, from 1 Enoch 1;1 to 1 Enoch 2:1 he says himself that he is not Enoch, the seventh from Adam.

He says that he recieved (from what the angels told him) the vision that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, had.

I honestly don't know what to make of all of this. It opens up possibilities that seriously concern me.

 

[Tamara224]

I honestly don't know what to make of all of this. It opens up possibilities that seriously concern me.

Such as? I don't know what to think of it either... further exploration is required.

 

[Katana]

It is an incontrovertible fact that the man who wrote the book of 1 Enoch, which Jude quotes from, never claimed to be Enoch, the seventh from adam. Actually, from 1 Enoch 1;1 to 1 Enoch 2:1 he says himself that he is not Enoch, the seventh from Adam.

He says that he recieved (from what the angels told him) the vision that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, had.

I honestly don't know what to make of all of this. It opens up possibilities that seriously concern me.

I don't think that fact, is as stable as you believe. I found only this from 1 Enoch 1:1 to 1 Enoch 2:1:

1
The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be
2
living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said --Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come

I don't think the way it starts out, "The words of Enoch", is any different from Solomon writing "1The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem." That does not mean someone else wrote the book! I would say the strange part is where it seems to switch from talking in the third person, to the first person. However from that little verse, I cannot find a justification for saying "This person says he is not Enoch", or "This person saw Enoch receiving revelations".

 

[Katana]

As for the author never calling himself Enoch:

XII-XVI. Dream-Vision of Enoch: his Intercession for Azâzêl and the Fallen Angels: and his Announcement of their first and final Doom.

12

1
Before these things Enoch was hidden, and no one of the children of men knew where he was
2
hidden, and where he abode, and what had become of him. And his activities had to do with the Watchers, and his days were with the holy ones.
3
And I Enoch was blessing the Lord of majesty and the King of the ages, and lo! the Watchers
4
called me --Enoch the scribe-- and said to me: 'Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, declare to the Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves
5
wives: "Ye have wrought great destruction on the earth: And ye shall have no peace nor forgiveness
6
of sin: and inasmuch as they delight themselves in their children, The murder of their beloved ones shall they see, and over the destruction of their children shall they lament, and shall make supplication unto eternity, but mercy and peace shall ye not attain."'

 

[Katana]

The book of Enoch says war and weaponry was invented by one of the fallen angels. Many believers today think war is a good thing.

And many think that if we're just nice and turn the other cheek, the evil of the world won't rape and kill us. I would say both positions are equally foolish, and lead to the same end: More War.

However, I've never met a Christian who thinks war is a good thing, only the ones who think other Christians love war.

 

[Katana]

In other words, even people without the Spirit would understand the Book of Enoch.

I have the Spirit, and I do not understand it.