the blind men and the Sabbath

DamianWarS

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Sabbath is a theme presented throughout the bible, especially with the overlapping concepts of rest and completion. When we extract Sabbath from a specific context it's akin to the blind men and an elephant. Each man describes the elephant based on what they can obverse which is limited mostly by touch. one describes it as a snake as he is feeling the trunk, the other describes it as a tree trunk as he was feeling the leg, another a wall as he was feeling the side and still another a rope as he was feeling it's tale. Each describe the elephant accurately based on their perspective but being blind they are unable to see the whole picture and if they were to only take their reference they would miss the point.

With the Sabbath when we extract one aspect and use that to define the whole I feel we are as limited as the blind men trying to describe the elephant. We certainly will have an accurate description in that context but it is still a limited perspective.

Sabbath is described first in the beginning on day 7 (Ge 2:2-3). God rests not because he is tired but because he has "ceased" his work (another meaning of sabbath), ergo his work was complete or finished so he ceased. But this is not the whole picture of the Sabbath although it is accurate to what it is there is still a fuller picture.

Sabbath is described in law in the 4th commandment (Ex 20:8-11, Dt 5:12-15) as a memorial to the 7th day with specific instructions as to how to keep it. The governing rules seem to be about keeping rest for youself, and those under your care even the the animals in your care. Working animals cannot rest unless they are given rest because they have no authority and it needs to be given by one with authority. This certainly invokes powerful metaphors within the regulations of the law, however, isolated we are blinded to these meanings. so certainly the requirement presented in the 4th is meaningful but still limited. perhaps in this case it's like the blind man feeling the trunk of the elephant as it's easily the most identifiable feature but certainly not the whole elephant.

Christ calls himself "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mt 12:1–8, Mk 2:23–28, Lk 6:1–5) saying the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. Isolated we can take this phrase and mold it to our liking, like a blind man feeling the elephant tail, it's a rope and as a rope, it can be tied and twisted as needed. but Christ words look to the whole, not an isolated part. So how do we take Christ words to define the whole?

Christ also tells us to come to him and he will give us rest. since rest is the meaning of Sabbath it's hard now to draw a parallel between Sabbath and Christ's words. Christ tells us "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." (Mt 11:29). Do Christ's words help shape what the Sabbath is? How do we use this to define the whole, not an isolated part?

John 19 (as well as the other gospels) gives us a picture of Christ's death. in John, Christ utters the phrase "it is finished" and then breaths his last. He then lay in the grave for the duration of the Sabbath and resurrects anew on the 1st day of the week (sunday). this fits in well with the creation/sabbath typology where God finishes his work (as Christ finished his work) then ceased during the 7th day, and for Christ this meant breathing his last. "the breath" of God is an intringsic part of his workings. He breaths in man to give him life (Ge 2:7), Christ breaths over his diciples to impart the Holy Spirit (Jn 20:22), Scripture is even called "God-breathed" (2 Ti 3:16). A parallel could be drawn between Christ's breath and his work, with his very breath being work itself (certainly that is the direction of the 4th commandment), so when he "breathed his last" his work stops, his heart is not beating, his lungs are not working and he has fully ceased work, as it was in the begining, over the 7th day. This however defines not an isolated part of the Sabbath but the whole.

Co 2:16 Pauls says "do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." Paul tells us don't judge the observance of specific days. This can be interpreted in different ways, but what is our motivation? when we reconcile this to the Sabbath we need to reconcile it to the whole and not an isolated part.

when speaking of the 7th day it's hard not to include the whole of creation to help understand its purpose. With regards to the new Paul says in 2 Cl 5:17 "if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" Creation speaks of light that comes into the world to separate the darkness and shape and fill the earth finally ending in rest. The new creation is a call back to the creation account to look at it as a salvation metaphor to which the Sabbath is a part.

Hebrews 4 is often quoted when defining that Sabbath. Hebrews tells us (v9-11) "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience". does the verse speak of physical rest or spiritual rest? The 4th commandment only reveals the physical aspect of rest and so is limited and in a vacuum is blinded to the the whole like the blind men feeling the elephant. Hebrew tells us we should make every effort to enter this rest. This needs to be reconcile by the whole, not an isolated part.

the word Sabbath is never mentioned in Revelation but certainly, there is a concept of completion and rest. there is the millennial reign of Christ (7th day) which ushers in the passing away of the old heaven and earth for the new heaven and earth (8th day). These are more abstract concepts but consistent with the order and purpose presented in creation. it also is consistent when looking at Paul's "new creation" concept with the old passing away and the new in its stead just not for the individual (which Paul is looking at) it zooms out and views the creation/sabbath typology over all things. It also is consistent with Christ dying on the cross completing his work, resting on the 7th and rising in the new on the 8th, indeed repeating themes from various perspectives.

So it seems Sabbath is uniquely paired with the period of rest or ceasing inbetween putting away the old awaiting the new. Christ dies on the cross, rests in the grave, and on the new day he resurrects a new. The same typology is found in baptism, putting to death the old and rising in the new. Can baptism then be linked with Sabbath? certainly no in a 4th commandment vacuum which is why it is important to look at the whole rather than isoated parts.

so which part of the Sabbath do you extract and fly as its banner? perhaps we should rethink this model and look to it as a peice of the whole rather than an integral part.
  • The 7th day of completion and rest
  • the 4th commandment of remember the 7th day through requirements and giving rest to those who have no authority to take it
  • the rest Jesus offers and is lord of.
  • the rest of God that Hebrews higlights, the authors implores us to seek this rest
  • the process of salvation within us that Paul highlights as the new creation
  • the judgment of others who keep or not keep the law (which is a common theme with Paul)
  • Christ breaths his last, resting in the grave without breath or heartbeat then resurrecting a new
  • the old being put to death for the new in baptism
  • the millennial regin of Christ which ushers in the new heaven and earth.
  • and countless other references.
Do you really want to highlight only one aspect like the blind men and the elephant? we have been given revelation or "sight" and are no longer blind. So let's describe the whole picture not it's isolated parts.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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Sabbath is a theme presented throughout the bible, especially with the overlapping concepts of rest and completion. When we extract Sabbath from a specific context it's akin to the blind men and an elephant. Each man describes the elephant based on what they can obverse which is limited mostly by touch. one describes it as a snake as he is feeling the trunk, the other describes it as a tree trunk as he was feeling the leg, another a wall as he was feeling the side and still another a rope as he was feeling it's tale. Each describe the elephant accurately based on their perspective but being blind they are unable to see the whole picture and if they were to only take their reference they would miss the point.

With the Sabbath when we extract one aspect and use that to define the whole I feel we are as limited as the blind men trying to describe the elephant. We certainly will have an accurate description in that contect but it is still a limited perspective.

Sabbath is described first in the beginning on day 7 (Ge 2:2-3). God rests not because he is tired but because he has "ceased" his work (another meaning of sabbath), ergo his work was complete or finished so he ceased. But this is not the whole picture of the Sabbath although it is accurate to what it is there is still a fuller picture.

Sabbath is described in law in the 4th commandment (Ex 20:8-11, 5:Dt 12-15) as a memorial to the 7th day with specific instructions as to how to keep it. The governing rules seem to be about keeping rest for youself, and those under your care even the the animals in your care. Working animals cannot rest unless they are given rest because they have no authority and it needs to be given by one with authority. This certainly invokes powerful metaphors within the regulations of the law, however, isolated we are blinded to these meanings. so certainly the requirement presented in the 4th is meaningful but still limited. perhaps in this case it's like the blind man the trunk of the elephant as it's easily the most identifiable feature but certainly not the whole elephant.

Christ calls himself "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mt 12:1–8, Mk 2:23–28, Lk 6:1–5) saying the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. Isolated we can take this phrase and mold it to our liking, like a blind man feeling the elephant tail, it's a rope and as a rope, it can be tied and twisted as needed. but Christ words look to the whole, not an isolated part. So how do we take Christ words to define the whole?

Christ also tells us to come to him and he will give us rest. since rest is the meaning of Sabbath it's hard now to draw a parallel between Sabbath and Christ's words. Christ tells us "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." (Mt 11:29). Do Christ's words help shape what the Sabbath is? How do we use this to define the whole, not an isolated parts?

John 19 (as well as the other gospels) gives us a picture of Christ's death. in John, Christ utters the phrase "it is finished" and then breaths his last. He then lay in the grave for the duration of the Sabbath and resurrects anew on the 1st day of the week (sunday). this fits in well with the creation/sabbath typology where God finishes his work (as Christ finished his work) then ceased during the 7th day, and for Christ this meant breathing his last. "the breath" of God is an intringsic part of his workings. He breaths in man to give him life (Ge 2:7), Christ breaths over his diciples to impart the Holy Spirit (Jn 20:22), Scripture is even called "God-breathed" (2 Ti 3:16). A parallel could be drawn between Christ's breath and his work, with his very breath being work itself (certainly that is the direction of the 4th commandment), so when he "breathed his last" his work, his heart is not beating, his lungs are not working and he has fully ceased work, as it was in the begining, over the 7th day. This however defines not an isolated part of the Sabbath but the whole.

Co 2:16 Pauls says "do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." Paul tells us don't the observance of specific days. This can be interpreted in different ways, but what is our motivation? when we reconcile this to the Sabbath we need to reconcile it to the whole and not an isolated part.

when speaking of the 7th day it's hard not to include the whole of creation to help understand its purpose. With regards to the new Paul says in 2 Cl 5:17 "if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" Creation speaks of light that comes into the world to separate the darkness and shape and fill the earth finally ending in rest. The new creation is a call back to the creation account to look at it as a salvation metaphor to which the Sabbath is a part.

Hebrews 4 is often quoted when defining that Sabbath. Hebrews tells us (v9-11) "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience". does the verse speak of physical rest or spiritual rest? in a 4th commandment only reveals the physical aspect of rest and so is limited and in a vacuum is blinded to the the whole like the blind men feeling the elephant. Hebrew tells us we should make every effort to enter this rest. This needs to be reconcile by the whole, not an isolated part.

the word Sabbath is never mentioned in Revelation but certainly, there is a concept of completion and rest. there is the millennial reign of Christ (7th day) which ushers in the passing away of the old heaven and earth for the new heaven and earth (8th day). These are more abstract concepts but consistent with the order and purpose presented in creation. it also is consistent when looking at Paul's "new creation" concept with the old passing away and the new in its stead just not for the individual (which Paul is looking at) it zooms out a views the creation/sabbath typology over all things. It also is consistent with Christ dieing on the cross completing his work, resting on the 7th and rising in the new on the 8th, indeed repeating themes from various perspectives.

So it seems Sabbath is uniquely paired with the period of rest or ceasing inbetween putting away the old awaiting the new. Christ dies on the cross, rests in the grave, and on the new day he resurrects a new. The same typology is found in baptism, putting to death the old and rising in the new. Can baptism then be linked with Sabbath? certainly no in a 4th commandment vacuum which is why it is important to look at the whole rather than isoated parts.

so which part of the Sabbath do you extract and fly as its banner? perhaps we should rethink this model and look to it as a peice of the whole rather than an integral part.
  • The 7th day of completion and rest
  • the 4th commandment of remember the 7th day through requirements and giving rest to those who have no authority to take it
  • the rest Jesus offers and is lord of.
  • the rest of God that Hebrews higlights, the authors implores us to seek this rest
  • the process of salvation within us that Paul highlights as the new creation
  • the judgment of others who keep or not keep the law (which is a common theme with Paul)
  • Christ breaths his last, resting in the grave without breath or heartbeat then resurrecting a new
  • the old being put to death for the new in baptism
  • the millennial regin of Christ which ushers in the new heaven and earth.
  • and countless other references.
Do you really want to highlight only one aspect like the blind men and the elephant? we have been given revelation or "sight" and are no longer blind. So let's describe the whole picture not it's isolated parts.
What's your view of the beginning of Revelation when John says "I was in the spirit on The Lord's day" What day do you think that refers to?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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What's your view of the beginning of Revelation when John says "I was in the spirit on The Lord's day" What day do you think that refers to?
This is what scripture says is the Lord's Day in very clear, easy to understand Words by God.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God
Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,”
says the Lord.

I don't think our Lord and Savior could have been clearer on which day belongs to Him as His holy day of worship. Some of these scriptures were personally written by God's own finger and spoken by God's own voice- how do you really go against this? We should always follow God's Word and not what man assigned to God that God deems a day to do work and labor. Exodus 20:9. There is no scripture in the entire bible that God's Day is anything but the seventh day Sabbath, from the beginning Genesis 2:1-3 to the very end. Isaiah 66:22-23 and everywhere in between.

John makes it clear in Revelation the saints "saved ones" keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12, the Sabbath is a commandment of God, written by God's own finger and part of His covenant of Ten Exodus 34:28 that is revealed in Heaven. Revelation 11:19. I think its should be pretty obvious if one wants to be honest with the scriptures, what John is referring to in Revelation.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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This is what scripture says is the Lord's Day in very clear, easy to understand Words by God.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God
Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,”
says the Lord.

I don't think our Lord and Savior could have been clearer on which day belongs to Him as His holy day of worship. Some of these scriptures were personally written by God's own finger and spoken by God's own voice- how do you really go against this? We should always follow God's Word and not what man assigned to God that God deems a day to do work and labor. Exodus 20:9. There is no scripture in the entire bible that God's Day is anything but the seventh day Sabbath, from the beginning Genesis 2:1-3 to the very end. Isaiah 66:22-23 and everywhere in between.

John makes it clear in Revelation the saints "saved ones" keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12, the Sabbath is a commandment of God, written by God's own finger and part of His covenant of Ten Exodus 34:28 that is revealed in Heaven. Revelation 11:19. I think its should be pretty obvious if one wants to be honest with the scriptures, what John is referring to in Revelation.
I'm only asking because I'm curious and keep Sunday Holy and do not work that day or buy things so that I cause others to work. What about the fact that Jesus rose from the grave on the first day of the week and He is Lord, wouldn't that be significant enough to call the first day of the week The Lords day? I mean people have been going to church on Sunday for that very same reason that Jesus rose from the dead on that day, and it is in remembrance of our Lord Jesus and what He did.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I'm only asking because I'm curious and keep Sunday Holy and do not work that day or buy things so that I cause others to work. What about the fact that Jesus rose from the grave on the first day of the week and He is Lord, wouldn't that be significant enough to call the first day of the week The Lords day? I mean people have been going to church on Sunday for that very same reason that Jesus rose from the dead on that day, and it is in remembrance of our Lord Jesus and what He did.

If we are to be followers of Christ, we should be followers of His Word.

Where does the scripture say that once Jesus rises from the grave that the Sabbath is no longer the commandment and now we are to worship Him on the first day? If there was scripture telling us that, then you might be on to something, but there's not. After Jesus died the Sabbath is still the commandment Luke 23:56

There is no scripture that says because Jesus rose on the first day, that is now the new day of worship and God's new holy day. An important detail like that should be in the scripture, but its not.

Jesus rested on the Sabbath even in death. If Jesus was going to change the Sabbath, He would have told someone, but didn't because there is no change to God's holy day. This is why the apostles kept the Sabbath decades after Jesus rose Acts 13:44, Acts 18:4 and why the Sabbath is still the Lords Day of worship in the new heaven and new earth for all eternity. Isaiah 66:22-23.

Sunday worship is a tradition of man that started around the 3rd century. It started off as a Pagan tradition of sun worship and turned into Sunday worship. Jesus tells us to obey the commandments of God and quotes right from the Ten Commandments over the traditions of man. Matthew 15:3-9. There is no Sunday-keeping commandment of God, but there is for Sabbath-keeping and God personally wrote this with His own finger. Exodus 20:8-11 we should always obey God over man even if its not the popular choice.
 
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BobRyan

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Sabbath is a theme presented throughout the bible, especially with the overlapping concepts of rest and completion. When we extract Sabbath from a specific context it's akin to the blind men and an elephant. Each man describes the elephant based on what they can obverse which is limited mostly by touch. one describes it as a snake

Good point about the failings of deleting context.

In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath is sanctified - made a holy day for mankind - as the 7th day of creation week. Nothing but Sabbath made on the seventh day of the week. And no sin at all on planet earth at that time so it is not pointing to time of "future rescue" for mankind.

In Ex 20:11 the Sabbath is a real day - the 7th day of the week at Sinai and is pointing to the Gen 2:1-3 origin.
in Is 66:23 the Sabbath is for all mankind for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth
In Is 56:6-8 gentiles are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping
In Acts 13 and 17 and 18 - both gentiles and Jews are in the synagogue Sabbath after the Sabbath (for gospel preaching)
 
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BobRyan

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What's your view of the beginning of Revelation when John says "I was in the spirit on The Lord's day" What day do you think that refers to?

There is only one day in scripture spoken of by God as "My Holy Day" and as the "holy day of the Lord" Is 58:13. John and his readers would have known about this -- so context matters.

There is only one day of the week in scripture where Jesus said of it "The Son of man is LORD of this day" Mark 2:27 -- and that is the Bible Sabbath. John and all the other disciples would have known about this -- so again - context matters.
 
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BobRyan

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Sabbath is described in law in the 4th commandment (Ex 20:8-11, 5:Dt 12-15) as a memorial to the 7th day with specific instructions as to how to keep it.

Good point and we notice that they have special liturgy for Sabbath as well as everyone surrounding the sanctuary facing the pillar of cloud by day and fire by night - the very presence of God.

But as you say "a memorial" -- not a "Shadow pointing forward"
 
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Pavel Mosko

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I'm only asking because I'm curious and keep Sunday Holy and do not work that day or buy things so that I cause others to work. What about the fact that Jesus rose from the grave on the first day of the week and He is Lord, wouldn't that be significant enough to call the first day of the week The Lords day? I mean people have been going to church on Sunday for that very same reason that Jesus rose from the dead on that day, and it is in remembrance of our Lord Jesus and what He did.


1) Yes that is why Christians call Sunday the Lord's day, and have done so for roughly 2000 years.


2) Not only is the following true but it is foreshadowed in Scripture in Old Testament passages regarding the 8th day and Pentecost in Judaism, where the 8th day especially is symbolic of new beginnings.

Parasha Shemini (Eighth): New Beginnings | Messianic Bible


3) Groups that preach or have preached against Sunday as "The day of the Beast", or otherwise coming from paganism do so wrongly. Those claims were made by people who did not study Church history etc. and are wrong and ignorant of the facts. I actually believe this qualifies as "bearing false witness" according to the Biblical definition.


4) Groups that proclaim 3 as part of a Revelation I believe do so based on the Spirit of anti-Christ. 1 John 4:1 tells us to test the Spirits and to reject one's that contradict the Received Faith, in the case of that passage it was the Docetic message that Jesus did not come in bodily form. Groups that preach point 3 likewise contradict the unanimous testimony of the Church for the last 2000 years. As one person I read phrased it they take something that is or should be received with joy and make it Demonic! Is this not the very work of the Spirit of the Antichrist? I think it is when you compare it similar statements Jesus said against the Pharisees.


5) Extra Points from Scripture
Groups that preach on point 3) are ignorant of other points of doctrine most notably things like the original context of “Binding and Loosening” in the Great Commission and it’s original Jewish Context.


BINDING AND LOOSING - JewishEncyclopedia.com


They also do not seem to appreciate the Conciliar nature of the Church, in passages like Acts 15. Or that the early Church taught not just by scripture but also preaching and epistle. Or even other considerations that would affect the ancient Christians in their pattern of worship (meeting together as One Body in Christ) etc.



6) Groups preach 3) have their own unique doctrines that come via Revelations that are not orthodox and are new innovations.



7) The leaders of these groups are unaccountable and have other questionable problems from scripture (Which I won't further qualify in public because of walking the tight rope of the terms of Service).
 
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SabbathBlessings

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1) Yes that is why Christians call Sunday the Lord's day, and have done so for roughly 2000 years.


2) Not only is the following true but it is foreshadowed in Scripture in Old Testament passages regarding the 8th day and Pentecost in Judaism, where the 8th day especially is symbolic of new beginnings.

Parasha Shemini (Eighth): New Beginnings | Messianic Bible


3) Groups that preach or have preached against Sunday as "The day of the Beast", coming from paganism do so wrongly. Those claims were made by people who did not study Church history etc. and are wrong and ignorant of the facts. I actually believe they qualify as false witness according to the Biblical definition.


4) Groups that proclaim 3 as part of a Revelation I believe do so based on the Spirit of anti-Christ. 1 John 4:1 tells us to test the Spirits and to reject one's that contradict the Received Faith, in the case of that passage it was the Docetic message that Jesus did not come in bodily form. Groups that preach point 3 likewise contradict the unanimous testimony of the Church for the last 2000 years. As one person I read phrased it they take something that is or should be received with joy and make it Demonic! Is this not the very work of the Spirit of the Antichrist? I think it is when you compare it similar statements Jesus said against the Pharisees.


5) Extra Points from Scripture
Groups that preach on point 3) are ignorant of other points of doctrine most notably things like the original context of “Binding and Loosening” in the Great Commission and it’s original Jewish Context.


BINDING AND LOOSING - JewishEncyclopedia.com


They also do not seem to appreciate the Conciliar nature of the Church, in passages like Acts 15. Or even other considerations that would affect the ancient Christians in their pattern of worship (meeting together as One Body in Christ) etc.



6) Groups preach 3) have their own unique doctrines that come via Revelations that are not orthodox and are new innovations.



7) The leaders of these groups are unaccountable and have other questionable problems from scripture (Which I won't mention because of terms of Service).
All that yet not one quote from scripture where God deems the first day as His holy day or the new day of worship as God declares so clearly for us from His written Word about His holy Sabbath Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:22-23.

In scripture there is never an argument over which day is God’s holy day or His Sabbath day. This all happened after scripture once man changed the corporate day of worship which became a tradition in the 3rd century where sun worship became Sunday worship. Jesus tells us to follow the commandments of God and quotes right from the Ten Commandments, over the traditions of man. Matthew 15:3-9. There is no Sunday-keeping commandment of God, but there is for Sabbath-keeping. Exodus 20:8-11. The saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Revelation 14:12, but its not the majority as scripture predicted. Revelation 12:17. We have time “today” to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 but when Jesus comes back our fates will be sealed, just like in the days of Noah when the ark closed. I pray for us all to be in God’s Kingdom and the only safeguard is to follow God’s Word.
 
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8) Groups that preach 3 work against the Biblical concept of Shalom. They attempt to undermine a person’s Faith in order to proselytize them towards their group. They do their very best to instill anxiety into their victims!


9) They are the very essence of “Wolves in Sheep’s” clothing that the Bible warns us of. They do so in two ways

A) posing as Christian brothers who then use a Bait and Switch tactic for point 8.

B) the Biblical term “Wolf in Sheep’s clothing” is an allusion to the prophetic mantel of the prophet that wore a sheep's skin mantel as a kind of uniform. These people, likewise get their teaching from a “prophet” who claimed Revelations from God.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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8) Groups that preach 3 work against the Biblical concept of Shalom. They attempt to undermine a person’s Faith in order to proselytize them towards their group. They do their very best to instill anxiety into their victims!


9) They are the very essence of “Wolves in Sheep’s” clothing that the Bible warns us of. They do so in two ways

A) posing as Christian brothers who then use a Bait and Switch tactic for point 8.

B) the Biblical term “Wolf in Sheep’s clothing” is an allusion to the prophetic mantel of the prophet that wore a sheep's skin mantel as a kind of uniform. These people, likewise get their teaching from a “prophet” who claimed Revelations from God.

Yes, we know what false prophets are and they are not teaching the Word of God, so it's more powerful to make your argument with scripture, and so far, I have not seen any on why the first day is the Lord's Day when Jesus in His own Words tells us it is the seventh day. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:22-23 + 150 other scriptures on God's holy Sabbath day throughout OT and NT.

If there were any scripture to support this notion, I am sure someone could provide at least one scripture that says:

Keep holy the first day
God blessed the first day
God sanctified the first day
The first day will be the new day of worship
The first day will be the day of worship in the New Heaven and New Earth.
Jesus is Lord of the first day
The first day is My holy day
Rest the first day according to the commandment
Jesus as His custom went to the temple on the first day
The first day is a sign between God and His people
The first day is how God sanctifies us


Should be simple- but these scriptures are only identified in God's Word as the seventh day. My thoughts are that God's written Word, which is meant for us so we know we are following Him. God so clearly wrote His commandments with His own finger Exodus 31:18 and spoke them with His own voice Exodus 20 He set His commandments in the Most Holy of His Temple where He dwells inside the ark, which is also revealed in heaven Revelation 11:19. If there was going to be a change to one of the commandments of God, it would be just as clear as how He initially made it and would not be some secret text that no one can provide.
 
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DamianWarS

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What's your view of the beginning of Revelation when John says "I was in the spirit on The Lord's day" What day do you think that refers to?
It doesn't matter. John doesn't uniquely contribute anything to the day in question so it's not a real concern of which day he was in the spirit, and John certainly doesn't say anything about changing the Sabbath even if the Lord's Day is Sunday (or for that matter keeping the Sabbath). If your reason for keeping a day raises or falls on John's words here I would say you should reread the OP again. Scripture has so much more to say regarding the Sabbath and all we can do is bicker about what day the Lord's Day points to.
 
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BobRyan

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8) Groups that preach 3 work against the Biblical concept of Shalom. They attempt to undermine a person’s Faith in order to proselytize them towards their group. They do their very best to instill anxiety into their victims!


9) They are the very essence of “Wolves in Sheep’s” clothing that the Bible warns us of. They do so in two ways

A) posing as Christian brothers who then use a Bait and Switch tactic for point 8.

B) the Biblical term “Wolf in Sheep’s clothing” is an allusion to the prophetic mantel of the prophet that wore a sheep's skin mantel as a kind of uniform. These people, likewise get their teaching from a “prophet” who claimed Revelations from God.

That is an interesting POV of course and both sides of this debate agree not to preach against Bible doctrine whether it is about "do not take God's name in vain" or it is about "remember the Sabbath day"

However when look for the Bible detail where it assign a specific day to the term --

There is only one day in scripture spoken of by God as "My Holy Day" and as the "holy day of the Lord" Is 58:13. John and his readers would have known about this -- so context matters.

There is only one day of the week in scripture where Jesus said of it "The Son of man is LORD of this day" Mark 2:27 -- and that is the Bible Sabbath. John and all the other disciples would have known about this -- so again - context matters.
 
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BobRyan

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It doesn't matter. John doesn't uniquely contribute anything to the day in question so it's not a real concern of which day he was in the spirit, and John certainly doesn't say anything about changing the Sabbath even if the Lord's Day is Sunday (or for that matter keeping the Sabbath). .

Agreed. Rev 1 does not appear to be trying to establish either an edit in law or a new law.
 
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DamianWarS

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And no sin at all on planet earth at that time so it is not pointing to time of "future rescue" for mankind.
The Sabbath is the rescue of the dark unformed void before the light was spoken into it. Before light the earth was full of darkness and unformed the very antithesis of the 7th day which is of rest and completion. Why would you dismissed such as clear and strong metaphor?

2 Cor 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.

Paul does not hesitate to parallel the darkness of creation with sin he then goes on to describe this as the "new creation" (5:17), another parallel. Darkness and light are some of the mostly widely use symbols in the bible, why ignore them here? They should be all the more important in the first account of the bible.
 
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DamianWarS

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Let's stop the back and forth about what day the Lord's Day is. Such a discussion is completely misfocused from the OP, or a classic forest through the trees problem. Don't be fixated on a single tree, let's instead zoom out and look at the mass of the forest. The 4th commandment, or arguably different names for the day, are indeed part of the conversation but we dishonor the Sabbath when we keep the conversation limited to those things.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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Let's stop the back and forth about what day the Lord's Day is. Such a discussion is completely misfocused from the OP, or a classic forest through the trees problem. Don't be fixated on a single tree, let's instead zoom out and look at the mass of the forest. The 4th commandment, or arguably different names for the day, are indeed part of the conversation but we dishonor the Sabbath when we keep the conversation limited to those things.
I will say regardless of if you keep Sunday or Saturday as the Sabbath I believe Jesus knows our intentions and our heart in the matter. I've noticed when I take Sunday to rest from work the rest of the week is just much easier and I feel like I've had a spiritual rest. It really feels restful. And in the Bible it says "Call the Sabbath a delight" and I've noticed I just feel joy when Sunday happens (I'm sure it's the same for Saturday Sabbath keepers as well). I respect people who can refrain from work on the Sabbath especially in this day and age when people are so often working almost every day.
 
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DamianWarS

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I will say regardless of if you keep Sunday or Saturday as the Sabbath I believe Jesus knows our intentions and our heart in the matter. I've noticed when I take Sunday to rest from work the rest of the week is just much easier and I feel like I've had a spiritual rest. It really feels restful. And in the Bible it says "Call the Sabbath a delight" and I've noticed I just feel joy when Sunday happens (I'm sure it's the same for Saturday Sabbath keepers as well). I respect people who can refrain from work on the Sabbath especially in this day and age when people are so often working almost every day.
Can you expand this and apply it to a fuller biblical concept of the Sabbath rather than limited to 4th commandment commentary.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I will say regardless of if you keep Sunday or Saturday as the Sabbath I believe Jesus knows our intentions and our heart in the matter. I've noticed when I take Sunday to rest from work the rest of the week is just much easier and I feel like I've had a spiritual rest. It really feels restful. And in the Bible it says "Call the Sabbath a delight" and I've noticed I just feel joy when Sunday happens (I'm sure it's the same for Saturday Sabbath keepers as well). I respect people who can refrain from work on the Sabbath especially in this day and age when people are so often working almost every day.
You should consider applying this to God's designated day of rest and see the blessing God promises Isaiah 58:13-14. While God knows our intentions, I think the story of Cain and Abel is a good example of obeying God the way He asks instead of our way. God bless!
 
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