The Binity of God

[Doveaman]

“God is Spirit”
“Now the Lord is the Spirit”
“There is one body and one Spirit”
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body”
(John 4:24, 2 Corinthians 3:17-18, Ephesians 4:4, 1 Corinthians 12:13)

God is one Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is also one Spirit.

Does the nature of God consists of two Spirits?

Is the Holy Spirit different from God’s Spirit, or is the Holy Spirit the one Spirit of God?

If the Holy Spirit is the one Spirit of God, then God is the Holy Spirit.

And if the Holy Spirit is God, then God is Father and Son existing as one Holy Spirit.

This means that God is a Binity, and not a Trinity – One Holy Spirit existing as Father and Son.

“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” – (Romans 8:9).

The Father and Son are both Holy and they are both Spirit, and they both live in us as one Holy Spirit.

 

[Chesterton]

 

[Dave-W]

Does the nature of God consists of two Spirits?

Or seven:

Rev 3:1 He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.

 

[Ken Rank]

“God is Spirit”
“Now the Lord is the Spirit”
“There is one body and one Spirit”
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body”
(John 4:24, Ephesians 2:22, Ephesians 4:4, 1 Corinthians 12:13)

God is one Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is also one Spirit.

Does the nature of God consists of two Spirits?

Is the Holy Spirit different from God’s Spirit, or is the Holy Spirit the one Spirit of God?

If the Holy Spirit is the one Spirit of God, then God is the Holy Spirit.

And if the Holy Spirit is God, then God is Father and Son existing as one Holy Spirit.

This means that God is a Binity, and not a Trinity – One Holy Spirit existing as Father and Son.

“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” – (Romans 8:9).

The Father and Son are both Holy and they are both Spirit, and they both live in us as one Holy Spirit.

I tend to agree. We see, "Father, Son, and Spirit" and see "three persons" but that is an external definition. God is a Spirit... and the Holy Spirit that is in the believer is ALSO CALLED the Spirit of the Son, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of your Father, the Spirit of Truth... all the one self-same spirit. So, in the end we have a spirit and we have the flesh, the son... in which the Spirit dwelt.

Interestingly, if you look up the Hebrew word for "image" as found in Genesis 1:28, you see that it means "mirrored reflection, semblance, resemblance, etc." Adam was made in the image of God... there was an aspect or hidden nature of God, a form known only to God... that Adam was patterned after. Adam was made in "the image of God." Well, the son comes and what do we find? That the "Second Adam" was BEFORE the first Adam and he was called "the image of the invisible God." In another verse, "God express (exact) image." So, the pattern for the first Adam was the 2nd Adam...

 

[Doveaman]

Or seven:

Rev 3:1 He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.

The seven Spirits is a reference to God's seven Lampstands/Churches that are filled with the anointing oil of God's Holy Spirit. So it is really just one Spirit, the Holy Spirit (the anointing oil) who dwells in the seven Lampstands/Churches of God.

"The seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches...And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God." -- (Revelation 1:20, 3:1)

 

[Doveaman]

I tend to agree. We see, "Father, Son, and Spirit" and see "three persons" but that is an external definition. God is a Spirit... and the Holy Spirit that is in the believer is ALSO CALLED the Spirit of the Son, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of your Father, the Spirit of Truth... all the one self-same spirit. So, in the end we have a spirit and we have the flesh, the son... in which the Spirit dwelt.

Interestingly, if you look up the Hebrew word for "image" as found in Genesis 1:28, you see that it means "mirrored reflection, semblance, resemblance, etc." Adam was made in the image of God... there was an aspect or hidden nature of God, a form known only to God... that Adam was patterned after. Adam was made in "the image of God." Well, the son comes and what do we find? That the "Second Adam" was BEFORE the first Adam and he was called "the image of the invisible God." In another verse, "God express (exact) image." So, the pattern for the first Adam was the 2nd Adam...

True.

God is also divine, so the first Adam was patterned to be divine like the second Adam.

"The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit...And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven." -- (1 Corinthians 15:45-49)

Just as we have borne the humanity of the earthly man, so shall we bear the divinity of the Man from heaven?

 

[Uber Genius]

God is one Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is also one Spirit.

These are "is"s of predication not identity!

God is divine, and rules the world

Jesus is divine, and rules the world

Holy Spirit is divine, and rules the world

Therefore we are ruled by divinities plural!

Wait... THAT IS HERESY.

The HS predicates (has the attribute of) divinity.

The Father predicates (has the attribute of) divinity.

The Son predicates (has the attribute of) divinity.

Together the Father, Son, and HS "Are" (identity not predication) God!

OP is mixing up attributes with identity.

OP is also not taking the original context and the entirety of the references to do a systematic analysis.

End result, Heresy.

 

[Ken Rank]

Together the Father, Son, and HS "Are" (identity not predication) God!

Not looking to argue, just wondering how you conclude my question... by your comment above, in terms of identity (person, being) you view Father, Son and Spirit as God? Not Gods... just the one God of Scripture?

 

[Doveaman]

These are "is"s of predication not identity!

God is divine, and rules the world

Jesus is divine, and rules the world

Holy Spirit is divine, and rules the world

Therefore we are ruled by divinities plural!

Wait... THAT IS HERESY.

The HS predicates (has the attribute of) divinity.

The Father predicates (has the attribute of) divinity.

The Son predicates (has the attribute of) divinity.

Together the Father, Son, and HS "Are" (identity not predication) God!

OP is mixing up attributes with identity.

OP is also not taking the original context and the entirety of the references to do a systematic analysis.

End result, Heresy.

But that is not what I said.

God is one divine Holy Spirit who expresses himself as two Persons (Father and Son), and both Persons share in the one divinity of the Holy Spirit, which is the one divinity of God.


God is one Spirit-Being and the Holy Spirit is one Spirit-Person

Is the Spirit of the Being different from the Spirit of the Person?

Or are they both one and the same Spirit?

 

[Dave-W]

The seven Spirits is a reference to God's seven Lampstands/Churches that are filled with the anointing oil of God's Holy Spirit. So it is really just one Spirit, the Holy Spirit (the anointing oil) who dwells in the seven Lampstands/Churches of God.

"The seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches...And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God." -- (Revelation 1:20, 3:1)

I think that is a dangerous assumption to make.

 

[Der Alte]

“God is Spirit”
“Now the Lord is the Spirit”
“There is one body and one Spirit”
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body”
(John 4:24, Ephesians 2:22, Ephesians 4:4, 1 Corinthians 12:13)
God is one Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is also one Spirit.
Does the nature of God consists of two Spirits?
Is the Holy Spirit different from God’s Spirit, or is the Holy Spirit the one Spirit of God?
If the Holy Spirit is the one Spirit of God, then God is the Holy Spirit.
And if the Holy Spirit is God, then God is Father and Son existing as one Holy Spirit.
This means that God is a Binity, and not a Trinity – One Holy Spirit existing as Father and Son.
“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” – (Romans 8:9).
The Father and Son are both Holy and they are both Spirit, and they both live in us as one Holy Spirit.

I suggest you take this topic to the proper forum.

Non-Nicene unorthodox Christian topics may only be discussed in the Controversial Christian Theology forum. Non-Trinitarianism may only be discussed in the Christianity & World Religion forum and the Debate Non-Christian Religions forum. The non-Nicene, unorthodox Christian topics which may discussed in this forum include (but are not limited to):
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...istian-theology-statement-of-purpose.7878699/​

 

[Butch5]

“God is Spirit”
“Now the Lord is the Spirit”
“There is one body and one Spirit”
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body”
(John 4:24, Ephesians 2:22, Ephesians 4:4, 1 Corinthians 12:13)

God is one Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is also one Spirit.

Does the nature of God consists of two Spirits?

Is the Holy Spirit different from God’s Spirit, or is the Holy Spirit the one Spirit of God?

If the Holy Spirit is the one Spirit of God, then God is the Holy Spirit.

And if the Holy Spirit is God, then God is Father and Son existing as one Holy Spirit.

This means that God is a Binity, and not a Trinity – One Holy Spirit existing as Father and Son.

“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” – (Romans 8:9).

The Father and Son are both Holy and they are both Spirit, and they both live in us as one Holy Spirit.

Careful, you're getting close to Modalism. There is a strong argument to be made for the Holy Spirit being a manifestion in some way of the Father. Jesus, however, is not spirit. John said the Word became flesh.

 

[Doveaman]

I suggest you take this topic to the proper forum.

Non-Nicene unorthodox Christian topics may only be discussed in the Controversial Christian Theology forum. ​

I'm already there.

But thanks anyway.

 

[Doveaman]

I think that is a dangerous assumption to make.

Scaremongering on your part.

It's not as dangerous as your assumption of God as being seven Spirits.


"The seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches...'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God.'" -- (Revelation 1:20, 3:1)

The seven churches are symbolically referred to as seven Spirits of God because of the manifold operations on the Holy Spirit in the seven churches.

"Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." -- (Revelation 4:5).

The seven lamps, or seven lampstands, are the seven churches which are kept burning by the anointing oil of the Holy Spirit.

"Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." -- (Matthew 5:15-16)

 

[Doveaman]

Careful, you're getting close to Modalism.

More scaremongering.

There is a strong argument to be made for the Holy Spirit being a manifestion in some way of the Father. Jesus, however, is not spirit. John said the Word became flesh.

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty...just as by the Spirit of the Lord." -- (2 Corinthians 3:17-18).

 

[Dave-W]

Scaremongering on your part.

More scaremongering.

No. Just a reality check. There are scriptures that support One God, a "bi-une" God, a Tri-une God and a seven-fold God.

To define it any more than that is IMO dangerous territory.

1 Cor 13.12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

IOW - there are many things that are INTENTIONALLY hidden from us - and part of that is how all of that works.
One. Two. Three. Seven.

And really, WHY is it important to understand that?
Or why should we jump on one set of verses; and ignore or try to explain away the others?

 

[Butch5]

More scaremongering.

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty...just as by the Spirit of the Lord." -- (2 Corinthians 3:17-18).

it's not fear mongering. Modalism has been refuted.

Regarding the passage you posted, what about it? I don't read minds and you gave no commentary. Since I'm almost certain that we understand the passage differently I don't see what you're trying to prove.

 

[Uber Genius]

Not looking to argue, just wondering how you conclude my question... by your comment above, in terms of identity (person, being) you view Father, Son and Spirit as God? Not Gods... just the one God of Scripture?

Not arguing. Just answered your question.

Apparently I needed additional explanation.

Your question doesn't distinguish between is that represents attributes, "Uber is wearing a blue shirt, and is pedantic, and is a man," and "uber" of which there is only one.

So Jesus and Father and HS are GOD. We are one person and one being, god is tri-personal (3 persons one being.

("Is" of identity to follow)

So father alone is not God,

The son alone is not God,

The HS alone is not God,

Together they are God.

Three persons make up one being who is God.

We are monotheists because "being" not persons is the way God identifies himself.

I was kidding about the "heresy" part, as I don't care what people believe. CF cares and some others out here care deeply, but I don't so feel free to ask what you like.

 

[Ken Rank]

Not arguing. Just answered your question.

Apparently I needed additional explanation.

Your question doesn't distinguish between is that represents attributes, "Uber is wearing a blue shirt, and is pedantic, and is a man," and "uber" of which there is only one.

So Jesus and Father and HS are GOD. We are one person and one being, god is tri-personal (3 persons one being.

("Is" of identity to follow)

So father alone is not God,

The son alone is not God,

The HS alone is not God,

Together they are God.

Three persons make up one being who is God.

We are monotheists because "being" not persons is the way God identifies himself.

I was kidding about the "heresy" part, as I don't care what people believe. CF cares and some others out here care deeply, but I don't so feel free to ask what you like.

Thanks for the clarification, I was just curious how you saw it in a little more depth. I don't know if I agree or not... I mean, I am something of a modalist (I didn't know there was a term for it when I arrived at the conclusion) in that I see God taking on whatever form or office is needed at the time. He creates as Father, He redeems as Son, He comforts - guides - teaches us and acts as something of a deposit until we are perfected. Perhaps that is just another way to say what you are saying, perhaps not. We are in the flesh, He is Spirit... we are just a bit limited here in our ability to see this in its fullness.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[Butch5]

Thanks for the clarification, I was just curious how you saw it in a little more depth. I don't know if I agree or not... I mean, I am something of a modalist (I didn't know there was a term for it when I arrived at the conclusion) in that I see God taking on whatever form or office is needed at the time. He creates as Father, He redeems as Son, He comforts - guides - teaches us and acts as something of a deposit until we are perfected. Perhaps that is just another way to say what you are saying, perhaps not. We are in the flesh, He is Spirit... we are just a bit limited here in our ability to see this in its fullness.

Blessings.
Ken

Hi Ken, I don't think it's that we're limited. I think that it's because error has entered into the Church. The original teaching on the Trinity is not that difficult to understand. However, the view from the Athanasian creed that is held by many today doesn't fit the Scriptures very well.