The Binding of Isaac, and the limits of religious discourse

[PloverWing]

I actually don't mind reading the story in the vigil so much. It's more the exposition I had a problem with.

My former rector mentioned many times that he was always very careful when preaching on this passage, because he knew it was likely that some of the people listening to him had abusive parents.

He also speculated about what this experience would have done to Isaac's relationship with God, noting the phrase "the God of Abraham and the Fear of Isaac" in Genesis 31:42.

 

[FireDragon76]

My former rector mentioned many times that he was always very careful when preaching on this passage, because he knew it was likely that some of the people listening to him had abusive parents.

He also speculated about what this experience would have done to Isaac's relationship with God, noting the phrase "the God of Abraham and the Fear of Isaac" in Genesis 31:42.

That's good, it shows a pastoral concern that was at the heart of the Reformation.

Sadly, I think my pastor is forgetting this. The worst thing a pastor can do is to needlessly bruise a conscience . It's less important to give "religiously correct" sermons, and more important that God's love is communicated personally. That's the whole reason we focus on the objectivity of the sacraments in the first place.

 

[Halbhh]

Why would God tempt Abraham to do something detestable just to prove his faith? This is not typical for the sort of character Christians think of God as having. And if it is, that might explain why so many Christians here scare me in their ability to hurt other people, "because God says so".

Tests of trust are typically the sort of thing that mobsters, thugs, and abusive spouses do.

I've thought on that a couple of times, trying to plumb the mystery, and it seems to me somehow connected to the fact that child sacrifice is perhaps the greatest of all evils -- Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 12:29-31 - New International Version.

But it's everywhere, at that time, it's likely. The norm, like slavery also -- all the world has it going on. It's not a thing that can be tolerated too long, but eventually would justify total destruction -- Bible Gateway passage: Malachi 4 - New International Version

When the Canaanite cities that had been sacrificing children in fires were to be destroyed, God could of course have done it in any manner, such as He did to Sodom and her sister cities for their high levels of notable evils, including abominations like arrogance/haughtiness, and the deep evil of all lack of charity: Bible Gateway passage: Ezekiel 16:49-50 - New International Version

Why did He have Israel personally destroy the Canaanite cities (or participate) when He could have done it without them? (sending all on to the Day of Judgement, where the innocent and the forgiven would be separated from the guilty (perhaps also the gospel was offered to even these dead? 1 Peter chapter 3?)).

Perhaps Israel was made to see the destruction first hand, often by their own hands, so that they would have impressed on them the lesson of Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 12:29-31 - New International Version. Witnessing right in front of their eyes the in-time outcome of child sacrifice, so that they would be very much learning deeply how wrong this near-universal thing was, and not take it up.

Perhaps that did work for a time. We know eventually Israel did anyway, and that led to the later devastation and the captivities.

Notice this dialog though about the question of what if some people are righteous in the city doing the many of the worst evils --Genesis 18 NIV Would God spare the city if it had 10 righteous in it?

Lot espcapes, as does later in Israel a remnant, those not participating in the great evils. We all are under the condition that we might be able to be among the "few" that find the narrow gate, Christ said, that leads to Life.

 

[Halbhh]

Why would God tempt Abraham to do something detestable just to prove his faith? This is not typical for the sort of character Christians think of God as having. And if it is, that might explain why so many Christians here scare me in their ability to hurt other people, "because God says so".

Tests of trust are typically the sort of thing that mobsters, thugs, and abusive spouses do.

So, from all of that just above (previous response), trying to remember it all together, it seems possibly to take the normal human evil, a very great one, of child sacrifice, that all the world had going on, and change Abraham, away from it.

Instead of the human thing of sacrificing our children to a 'god'...

God would provide the sacrifice.

 

[mkgal1]

Why would God tempt Abraham to do something detestable just to prove his faith? This is not typical for the sort of character Christians think of God as having. And if it is, that might explain why so many Christians here scare me in their ability to hurt other people, "because God says so".

Tests of trust are typically the sort of thing that mobsters, thugs, and abusive spouses do.

So, from all of that just above (previous response), trying to remember it all together, it seems possibly to take the normal human evil, a very great one, of child sacrifice, that all the world had going on, and change Abraham, away from it.

Instead of the human thing of sacrificing our children to a 'god'...

God would provide the sacrifice.

Exactly. I wish I could find that article that I read years ago that explains this - but this is what it said in a nutshell. Well said.

I believe God had to begin where Abraham was accustomed (and it's difficult for us to wrap our minds around a culture where child sacrifice was so common and pervasive, but that's where Abraham - and the whole culture of his time - was). Even today, people still believe it's about the idea that "someone has to pay with their life for this sin" instead of believing that God, Himself, took on the sin of this world for us. If it's difficult for us - in our culture - to wrap our minds around......how much more difficult was it for those in Abraham's day?

 

[Anto9us]

The worst thing a pastor can do is to needlessly bruise a conscience .

You said a mouthful there, FireDragon.

 

[Anto9us]

"Well, God said to Abraham, kill me a son
Abe said man ya must be puttin me on
God said No - Abe say What?
God said you can do what ya want Abe but
the next time ya see me comin you better run
Abe said where ya want this killin done?
God said out on Highway 61

- Bob Dylan

 

[hedrick]

Has anyone read Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling? It retells this stories in a number of ways. I'm not capable of summarizing his treatment, but it's something you should read if you have an interest in the story.

Benjamin Britten's War Requiem deals with it in a very different way.

 

[FireDragon76]

@hedrick
I'll look up that book.

I'm actually not a big fan of Kierkegaard, even though I have read some of his work- his descriptions are more interesting than his solutions. He's very much one of those Scandinavian Pietists whose religion can "poison" you with its dour, intense focus. I read a critique of Kierkegaard and it explained how he only understood half of Luther through Johann Hamann, whom he only half read, and the rest of his religion was dry, unearthly pietism. He's definitely not light reading. Like Nietzsche, he was staring into an abyss.