The Billy Graham Rule Goes to Court

[JIMINZ]

And also: He had been fired from his last job.

What was he a Walmart Greeter?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Everybody in the town knew the story, as it says right there in the text.

Yes, by the woman's testimony the town knew. The town was not witnessing Jesus and the woman at the well talk. Nothing is said in the text about how John gathered the story. Did John gather the story from the town or from Jesus directly Himself or from God? We don't know. The text does not say. We know that Jesus and the woman at the well were alone. They were publically outside, but nobody was actually there with them to hear their conversation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It was a solitary bathroom. No need for alarm. There are good and bad in both sexes.

A solitary bathroom with a lock? That is different. Small diners would sometimes have this option because they did not have the money to build two bathrooms or they wanted to start a cheap business.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, by the woman's testimony the town knew. The town was not witnessing Jesus and the woman at the well talk. Nothing is said in the text about how John gathered the story. Did John gather the story from the town or from Jesus directly Himself or from God? We don't know. The text does not say. We know that Jesus and the woman at the well were alone. They were publically outside, but nobody was actually there with them to hear their conversation.

The woman told everyone the conversation, and more than once. We needn't think it's such a big deal that she would not have told the story often and in detail--she had had an audience with the Messiah, after all. She probably even told deacon Philip, when he went there after being routed from Jerusalem by Saul. There's no reason to think the story would have been hidden.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The woman told everyone the conversation, and more than once. We needn't think it's such a big deal that she would not have told the story often and in detail--she had had an audience with the Messiah, after all. She probably even told deacon Philip, when he went there after being routed from Jerusalem by Saul. There's no reason to think the story would have been hidden.

Why would John trust the townspeople to tell the story accurately?
Surely John knows that people can embellish stories.
John could have simply asked Jesus what happened at some point, as well. However, we simply do not know.
It is an assumption (on your part) that John got the story from the townspeople. We really don't know how he was able to record the event. Personally, I don't see that it was likely that he recorded the event via the townspeople. He was one of the core three disciples (i.e. Peter, James, and John). He was one of the sons of thunder who was up on the Mount of Transfiguration.

 

[JIMINZ]

And also: He had been fired from his last job.

How is that relevant, he worked for the Sheriff's Office for 5 years.

 

[bèlla]

A solitary bathroom with a lock? That is different.

I have never known one that didn’t have a lock in public settings. I am not a fan of them nonetheless and avoid them whenever possible.

 

[brinny]

How is that relevant, he worked for the Sheriff's Office for 5 years.

Exactly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Anyways, speaking of Billy Graham, while I may not agree with his ministry (because he believed in Eternal Security), I did enjoy one of the Christian films which was produced by his ministry. It is called, "The Climb."

In fact, just today I just watched the "Behind the Scenes Making" on the DVD.

Side Note:

The movie is ten times better than the trailer. So do not let the cheesy trailer fool you. It is really a good Christian movie that talks about Christ. In addition, it also has some really breathtaking shots of the mountains, as well.

 

[Yarddog]

I am sure you have that kind of job? Fighting criminals. Police often work alone!

My Uncle was a career cop and chief of detectives. One of my best friends was a career PO. My brother in law just retired as a PO. My neighbor retired as a career PO and is a sheriff's deputy and none of them had a problem working with women police officers. Maybe you should get some experience before talking. I could also tell you about my nephew who is a Sgt. in the Military Police who also has females working with him and under his supervision. He has no problem with this as well.

Instead of trying to make excuses to support your narrow minded beliefs, get out in the real world.

 

[Yarddog]

With the case of this police officer and the Billy Graham rule what you wrote is not relevant.

Well, the guy in question wasn't a police officer but what I wrote is relevant in all situations.

 

[Yarddog]

The detail about his colleague not sending back-up when he needed it in a direly dangerous circumstance is alone a glaring detail that needs to be investigated.

Well, it will be investigated but that doesn't mean it's factual. As I said, the suit only gives Torres' account which may or may not be true.

 

[bèlla]

Well, it will be investigated but that doesn't mean it's factual. As I said, the suit only gives Torres' account which may or may not be true.

Do you believe this is an appropriate response for those who struggle with lust? My concern is the precedent a favorable ruling will set and the workaround of discriminating against believers or men that’s a likely result.

 

[Yarddog]

I'm sure you right on this matter, but I am almost positive the Chief is going to tell the absolute truth as to what the reason was and why he ultimately fired the Officer in question.

I know I will

There will be evidence presented which will attempt to support each side. Hopefully, the innocent side will prevail.

 

[Yarddog]

Do you believe this is an appropriate response for those who struggle with lust?

Well, it was an appropriate response for the post I replied to.

My concern is the precedent a favorable ruling will set and the workaround of discriminating against believers or men that’s a likely result.

My only concern is that the truth comes out so the proper people can prevail, which ever side that may be.

 

[JIMINZ]

OK PEOPLE! It's now 200 posts.

Lets give this Brother in Christ some slack.

This thread has turned into a bunch of Old Biddies Gossiping, this poor guy is now almost a Rapist by the way everyone is going at him, he didn't do ANYTHING wrong, he didn't break any Laws.

Jesus knelt down, and while the Mob milled around, doodle, doodle, doodle, then He stood up and said, "You who are without sin cast the first stone"

Ok People let's move along, there is nothing to see here, move along, drop your stones and go home.

Has anyone of you guys ever said, I would have done as the Good Samaritan did, well look long and hard at your selves in the Mirror tonight, this man has been unjustly bloodied by Society, now we of his own household chastise him.

Is this verse true tonight?

1Pet. 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

I don't think so.

 

[Paidiske]

I have no interest in vilifying Mr. Torres.

What concerns me is that if the "Billy Graham rule" becomes a normalised expectation in our society/our workplaces, we will all lose out because of it. I don't want to live or work in a world where people can refuse to work with me on the basis of my sex.

 

[redleghunter]

Well, the guy in question wasn't a police officer but what I wrote is relevant in all situations.

Do you think it sexist or out of the norm for a male Army First Sergeant to require another leader in the same room when counseling a female Soldier?

 

[redleghunter]

I have no interest in vilifying Mr. Torres.

What concerns me is that if the "Billy Graham rule" becomes a normalised expectation in our society/our workplaces, we will all lose out because of it. I don't want to live or work in a world where people can refuse to work with me on the basis of my sex.

The actual “Billy Graham” rule is not to be alone with another woman who is not one’s wife.

Now I agree work situations may not fit this rule given the work dynamics. Billy Graham and Mike Pence have claimed situations where it is a meeting or dinner.

In the case of the police officers it was a night training one on one situation. From my Army experience, leaders would avoid situations where such training was done one on one. There would be more people involved. Call it the Army being meticulous, but when someone is being trained there is usually another evaluating the training. That’s to ensure the proper training is enforced.

In the Army we have sexual harassment training. One male instructor shared a true event that he and another had to investigate regarding a male First Sergeant and female Soldier.

The Soldier failed her physical training test twice and was facing separation from the Army. The First Sergeant told the supervising NCO of the Soldier that the female Soldier must be counseled that if she failed the next test they would begin chapter proceedings for discharge.

The female Soldier was counseled and requested three weeks before being retested. The First Sergeant agreed.

One week later the Female Soldier exercised her right of the open door policy which would allow her to see directly the First Sergeant or Commander. She chose to go first to the First Sergeant. The open door policy is usually a private meeting as the Soldier in question may reveal information of abuse or other derogatory information on subordinate leaders in her chain of leadership.

So the First Sergeant calls her in, closed the door and asked her what she needed to discuss. She replied “I’m ready to take the Physical Training Test (PT test).” The First Sergeant said “Great, when do you want to take it?” She said “right now First Sergeant.” He said “Ok I’ll get the PT card and stop watch and you can change into your PT gear.”

She then said “No First Sergeant, I want to take the special PT test.” The First Sergeant said “Oh do you have a physical profile from a doctor allowing you an alternate PT test event?”

She said “No First Sergeant, I want the special PT test where I don’t wear PT clothing. You know the one where we don’t wear any clothes.”

Needless to say the man did not get the hint until she made it quite clear. The account had the flabbergasted First Sergeant running out of his office to report the matter to the Company Commander.

The female Soldier signed a sworn statement that the First Sergeant was the one who suggested the “special PT test” first.

No witnesses, a “he said she said” matter which by regulation had to be investigated.

The Billy Graham rule may just have helped this Army leader avoid the uncomfortable situation. It would have also avoided assigning a line officer from another unit from spending time on an investigation.

This account was part of my pre-command course. When I took command I made it policy that during counseling the door would be open and another leader to be present not in that Soldier’s chain of leadership. I commanded an all male Field Artillery Battery but knew situations other than sexual conduct would arise from a one on one closed session.

 

[bèlla]

I don't want to live or work in a world where people can refuse to work with me on the basis of my sex.

I think the fallout will be bad and men will be worse off because of it. The easiest compromise is to hire a woman to avoid the issues. This won’t hurt the big wigs. They’re safe. But the rest are fair game.