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The Biblical view of homosexuality

Discussion in 'Whosoever Will, May Come - Liberal' started by heal103, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian Supporter

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    Forgive me, but I am under a provisional vow of holy celibacy which will remain in place unless I discern a vocation for Holy Matrimony, just as @Anthony2019 practices holy celibacy. It is of course as inappropriate for people to engage in exhibitionist behavior as it is for them to engage in sexual promiscuity; while the sins of others are not our personal business, because we are the worst of sinners, the promotion of Christian morality is central to the work of the church, which should ideally not take a forensic approach to sin, or a judgemental, condemnatory attitude, as these are alienating, but rather, adopt the medicinal hamartiology of the Eastern churches, with Christian morality and sexual ethics held as an ideal to aspire to, with the assurance of forgiveness if one slips up.
     
  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Jesus forgave all sinners all their sins. There is no further morality work to be done by the church other than us accepting that's it's over and done.

    Matthew 6:15
    But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

    Mark 11:25
    And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”

    Matthew 18:21-22
    Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.
     
  3. Anthony2019

    Anthony2019 Pax et bonum! CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    I remained celibate, not because I have any particular views on sexuality, but because I felt that is what God wants me to do personally. I think it seems to have been the right decision. I've found that being single and not in a relationship gives me a lot of freedom and happiness.
     
  4. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian Supporter

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    Indeed, this has been my experience. After the failure of my engagement, which by the way would have canonically disqualified me from ever pursuing a priesthood in an Eastern or Oriental Orthodox or Assyrian church, because my fiancee had been married to an abusive Tunisian man (his threatening of her was the cause of our not getting married, as I did not at the time have enough knowledge or experience to deal with it, and he still felt possessive of her), I found over time that the intense love I felt for her began to be distributed into all of my relationships, so even people who I had historically regarded with animosity I now feel a certain love for. There is also a powerful passion with romantic relationships in which both times I was in love with someone, it altered my critical thinking and caused a certain degree of irrationality.

    I have discerned that I should wait for someone not a member of any ministry I am serving in to fall in love with me, and if they are suitable, I will reciprocate, but otherwise I am content to remain celibate. There is one Syriac Orthodox jurisdiction which allows one to be married after ordination, but otherwise, with all the other Eastern churches, I have to commit to celibacy or matrimony before being ordained to subdeacon; readers are the highest ranking clergy who can get married, and bishops are required to be celibate, and are usually monastics (although in some cases, they are widows, or elderly married men who due to age practice continence within their marriage). Due to the difference in vocation between the ancient diaconate and the priesthood, I regard deacons and presbyters of being equivalent in rank, even though presbyters preside at the liturgy; I tend to regard deacons as more useful than presbyters and I wish there were more of them, and one of the few liturgical decisions the Roman Catholic Church has made in recent years that I agree with is opening up the diaconate to married men (previously, deacons and subdeacons were almost invariably either seminarians preparing for ordination to the priesthood, or priests serving as deacon or subdeacon in a Solemn High Mass).
     
  5. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Yes, he did. But he also spent much of his time talking about how we should act and referring to judgement. While acting the way God wants us to could be considered morality by definition, much of what he taught it's what people think of as morality today. Going quickly through Luke I see

    • skepticism about fasting (twice)
    • an attack on Sabbath legalisml
    • blessings on the powerless
    • love for enemies
    • rejection of judgmentalism
    • telling us we should make a difference (twice)
    • telling us that we should act on his words (several times, in various ways)
    • the importance of forgiveness (several times)
    • the importance of the Kingdom (several times)
    • the importance of humility (several times)
    • the importance of prayer (several times)
    • God's love for us, that we need not worry
    • the importance of faith (twice in different senses)
    These are all instructions on how to live, but none of them is what is normally considered "morality." Makes you wonder. But I'm a bit concerned about saying that because he forgave sins, there's no further work to be done.
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    You are forgiven. There is no further work needed to be forgiven.
    Your concerns are directly addressed:


    Ephesians 2:8-9
    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
     
  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    "Morality" is limited to the difference between right and wrong.
    Which each person decides for themselves.

    John 8:11
    She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

    John 5:14
    Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”
     
  8. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Regarding your post before the one I quoted:

    "This, therefore is how you should pray...forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." - Jesus

    Why would He instruct us to pray for forgiveness if all is already forgiven?

    Also, regarding the post I quoted:

    Jeremiah 17:9

    The Bible dictates the morals that we should follow. As Jesus said in John 14:15, if you love Him, you will keep His commandments.
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Prayer changes you , not God.
    Praying for forgiveness is a form of repentance rather than begging.
     
  10. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    It could read "forgive us our trespasses, after we forgive those who trespass against us."
    But God does not experience time, so "after" is not a good translation either.

    Also these passages go back and forth with which goes first, illustrating that there is no linier timetable:


    1 John 1:9
    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Colossians 3:13
    Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

    Ephesians 1:7
    In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

    Mark 11:25
    And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
     
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