The Biblical Anti-Christ.

[Douggg]

Hi Riberra,

You will notice that Satan, the `star that had from heaven,` is the one who unlocks the bottomless pit. ie given authority by God to release more demons upon the earth. He was not locked in the pit and he is their king. The only king the fallen angels, demons ever had. They were cast out of the third heaven and no other being has been given rulership there.....till......

Marilyn.

Marilyn, is Satan called the prince of this world? John 14:30. Yet, we read in Daniel 10 about the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece.

So I don't think that Abaddon has to equal Satan. Abaddon is called a King - over the locust. But not King of the Bottomess pit. Although it could be implied that way. Abaddon is called the angel of the bottomless pit.

Satan is nto called a king in the bible directly. There are code names for Satan such as the King of Tyrus, Ezekiel 28. And the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Riberra,

I was referring to Ezekiel 28: 16 where God cast Lucifer, king of angels out of the third heaven. God has not given any other angel authority (key = authority) to be king.

regards, Marilyn.

Marilyn, the falling star angel, I can agree is Satan. But Satan can't be unlocking the bottomless pit releasing Abaddon the angel of the bottomless pit - and also being Abaddon.

 

[Douggg]

You need to read Ezekiel 28:16 in the whole context of the Chapter
Ezekiel 28:16 cover two things

1-it is talking about the moment Satan fallen because he wanted to sit on the throne of God...[Read the whole chapter Ezekiel 28 ]

2-it talk about a future time when God will destroy Satan ...

Riberra, Ezekiel 28, the Prince of Tyre is the end times man of sin, committing the transgress of desolation in 2thessalonians2:4. He is going to be killed for his audacious act.

Differently, the King of Tyre is Satan, a brief history and future cast down, restricted to the earth; then him being exposed to the kings of the earth, when Jesus returns melting away the shell of the abomination of desolation image - to take place on the temple mount, and being taking away in chains to the bottomless pit.

You have a lot of stuff right. Just need to do some refinement.

 

[Hal A Peno]

d

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn,

You are on the right track, since Satan and one third of the angel were cast out of heaven long ago.

2Pe_2:4　 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Jud_1:6　 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

The beginning of Revelation 12 is a history lesson, including the birth and death of the man-child, who is Christ based on Psalm 2.

Hi BABerean,

That`s great we agree, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

You need to read Ezekiel 28:16 in the whole context of the Chapter
Ezekiel 28:16 cover two things

1-it is talking about the moment Satan fallen because he wanted to sit on the throne of God...[Read the whole chapter Ezekiel 28 ]

2-it talk about a future time when God will destroy Satan ...

Hi Riberra,

In Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 we see the downfall of Lucifer. We are shown where he will eventually go, however we know that it is in stages. We see the devil talking to Jesus while He was on earth, (Matt. 4: 8)we also know that he is the Prince of the power of the air, (Eph. 2: 2) & the wicked one who holds sway over the world, (1 John 5: 19)

Is that what you are pointing out?

Marilyn.

 

[Hal A Peno]

jo

 

[Marilyn C]

Riberra said:

Rev. 3:20-21 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

I can only shake my head.

Hi Hal,

Is that because you haven`t seen those two scriptures together before?

Acts 3: 20 & 21 tell us that the OT prophets reveal what needed to be restored first. Then Peter reveals by the Holy Spirit that the Father will send Jesus (to His Body) to begin that restoration. The scripture in Revelation (3: 21) reveal the Body of Christ with the Head, the Lord Jesus Christ will be on His throne, the very first rulership that will be restored in God`s great kingdom.

Marilyn.

 

[Hal A Peno]

rfh

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, is Satan called the prince of this world? John 14:30. Yet, we read in Daniel 10 about the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece.

So I don't think that Abaddon has to equal Satan. Abaddon is called a King - over the locust. But not King of the Bottomess pit. Although it could be implied that way. Abaddon is called the angel of the bottomless pit.

Satan is nto called a king in the bible directly. There are code names for Satan such as the King of Tyrus, Ezekiel 28. And the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14.

Hi Douggg,

Actually it is very clear that Lucifer was given authority by God. He was given a throne and was a king and a priest.

`Lucifer said - "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God...` (Isa. 14: 13)
`You were the anointed cherub that covers.....Every precious stone was your covering...` (Ez. 28: 14 & 13)

No other angel was anointed king by God.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

I'm waiting for you to "provide the Bible verses saying that the Church which you refers as the Body of Christ will be taken to Heaven before the Tribulation?"

You quoted...
Rev. 3:20-21 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Those verses DO NOT infer ANYTHING about anybody being taken to heaven before the tribulation. My question is, "how do arrive at that conclusion?"

Hi Hal,

Rev. 3: 21 tells us that the Body of Christ will be with the Lord on His own throne, and not where He is at the moment, which we know is at the right hand of the Father. So we ask ourselves - When does the Lord leave His Father`s throne and go to His own throne?

Then we read in Acts 3: 20 & 21, how that God the Father will send Jesus for the Body of Christ and together they will take up rulership in the place that the OT prophets told was vacant - the third heaven - re: Lucifer a kingpriest being cast out of there. And there had been no visible ruler appointed there since.

The timing is, as we see in Revelation, at the beginning of the tribulation as the Lord and His Body of believers will execute the judgments upon the fallen angels and the world system.

BTW I am doing the details of this in my current blog - The Eternal Purposes.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, the falling star angel, I can agree is Satan. But Satan can't be unlocking the bottomless pit releasing Abaddon the angel of the bottomless pit - and also being Abaddon.

Hi Douggg,

I don`t see where Abaddon is shown to be IN the pit. He, Satan, is their king and thus given authority by God to release these extra demons upon the earth.

Marilyn.

 

[Hal A Peno]

gbhj

 

[Marilyn C]

You don't see the fabrication here, you said,

Rev. 3: 21 tells us that the Body of Christ will be with the Lord on His own throne, and not where He is at the moment, which we know is at the right hand of the Father. So we ask ourselves - When does the Lord leave His Father`s throne and go to His own throne?

I'm not even sure I understand the fabrication, I like details, but anyway...

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

This isn't saying the church is on the throne, only that it's granted to those who overcome.
What moment??? Where do you see that Jesus ever left the Throne before Revelation 3:21.

He never left! He was there in Chapter one where John was told to write to the seven churches and does so, and the narative never ceased up to chapter 3 to the Laodicean church. So for you to say Jesus "wasn't there at the moment" is a desperate attempt at a pre-trib cover up of a contradiction, and this one takes the cake! I'm just surprised that pretribbers just don't see these endless fabrications.

Re. 1:7 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty......V. 12 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me......


Where do you see

Hi Hal,

Do you agree that we know the Lord Jesus is at the right hand of His Father? (Heb. 1: 3, Eph. 1: 20)
And He is there while the Father brings His enemies to His footstool. (Ps. 110: 1)

And we believe that the Lord is at present interceding for us at the right hand of the Father. (Heb. 8: 1)

Do we agree so far? Marilyn.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Anti christ also means in place of Christ

Futurism does just that by contributing the last week of Daniels 70 week prophesy to Satan instead of the ministry and death of Christ on the cross in the midst of the week and the Gospel going to the gentiles at the end of the week.

70 weeks are determined upon my people. Not 69 weeks then a gap then the last week in the future.

Futurism is a RC teaching that protestants have embraced.

 

[Riberra]

Actually it is very clear that was given authority by God. He was given a throne and was a king and a priest.

`Lucifer said - "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God...` (Isa. 14: 13)
`You were the anointed cherub that covers.....Every precious stone was your covering...` (Ez. 28: 14 & 13)

No other angel was anointed king by God.

Marilyn.

You don't get it at all, in fact Lucifer (Satan) have lost his position because he wanted the throne of God ...because he wanted the place of God ...it does not say that Satan was given a throne by God !

Originally Satan was The anointed cherub that covered the very Throne of God.

Ezekiel 28:14
14 “Thou art the anoint cherub that that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.”

Satan was what? The anointed cherub that covered the very Throne of God. Our Father placed Satan into that elite position because of Satan’s good deeds as the next verse will document. But, instead of covering the Throne of God, Satan wanted to be God. There is only one God, there are no others (Isaiah 45:5-6).

Let me ask, where did the scripture say Satan was? On the Holy Mountain of God just as Isaiah 14 documented. Satan wanted to be placed above the stars of God (sons of God), Satan wanted to take our Father’s Throne. Satan was not to have a throne, he was to cover God’s Throne.

Ezekiel 28:15
15 “Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.”

Satan was perfect at one point in time which explains how he was able to elevate himself so high in God’s Kingdom. However, when Satan achieved all of the rewards and was elevated in God’s Kingdom that is when evil was found within him.

Ezekiel 28:16
16 “By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.”

Pay close attention, Isaiah 14 documented Satan was on the mountain of God because he covered our Father’s Throne. This is why our Father told Satan, ‘I cast thee out of the mountain of God’. Documenting God removed Satan from his position of power.

Since then, the name Lucifer was changed to Satan which mean ADVERSARY .

 

[Marilyn C]

You don't get it at all, in fact Lucifer (Satan) have lost his position because he wanted the throne of God ...because he wanted the place of God ...it does not say that Satan was given a throne by God !.

Hi Riberra,

I think you missed this scripture -

`How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart; "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt MY THRONE above the stars of God...` (Isa. 14: 12 & 13)

Marilyn.

 

[Riberra]

Hi Riberra,

I think you missed this scripture -

`How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart; "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt MY THRONE above the stars of God...` (Isa. 14: 12 & 13)

Marilyn.

This is talking about the wish of Satan ...to be God.
God have never given a throne to Satan.

Read that interesting article... about Satan's sin.
Satan's Sin | World Events and the Bible

 

[Marilyn C]

This is talking about the wish of Satan ...to be God.
God have never given a throne to Satan.

Read that interesting article... about Satan's sin.
Satan's Sin | World Events and the Bible

Hi Riberra,

The word `throne,` means power and authority. We see that Lucifer when he was cast out of the third heaven he took with him one-third of the angels. He is their king, their leader, ruler.

God`s word tells us that the devil, (a descriptive name of Lucifer/Satan) has control of the kingdoms of this world, (Matt. 4: 8, & 1 John 5: 19). Satan is also called the Prince of the power of the air, (Eph. 2: 2). He usurped the authority realm of principalities and powers, (Eph. 6: 12).

Thus we see that Satan has authority and power, a prince and a king with a throne.

Marilyn.

 

[Riberra]

Hi Riberra,

The word `throne,` means power and authority. We see that Lucifer when he was cast out of the third heaven he took with him one-third of the angels. He is their king, their leader, ruler.

God`s word tells us that the devil, (a descriptive name of Lucifer/Satan) has control of the kingdoms of this world, (Matt. 4: 8, & 1 John 5: 19). Satan is also called the Prince of the power of the air, (Eph. 2: 2). He usurped the authority realm of principalities and powers, (Eph. 6: 12).

Thus we see that Satan has authority and power, a prince and a king with a throne.

Marilyn.

Satan have an inherent deceiving power ....and he will use it again to deceive the Nations [Revelation 12 -- Revelation 13]...and ...again [Revelation 20:7-10] until God finally destroy Satan.