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Featured The Biblical Anti-Christ.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Marilyn C, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Riberra,

    So who is ruling the world now? The Gentiles are still in control, under the sway of Satan. So it was not all fulfilled in 70 AD.

    And so we agree that the `beast,` is Satan`s control over the Gentile`s government. (Rev. 13: 2)

    regards, Marilyn.
     
  2. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Control that SATAN will give to the Beast that will be wounded at the head...Revelation 13:3-4

    Luke 21:24 is in the context of Luke 21:20-24

    20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.

    21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.

    You never read anything in context...so i will stop the discussion here.

    jerusalem is STILL trodden down by the gentiles until
    the fulness of the gentiles who will happen unto the coming of Jesus.
    The people living actually in Israel are 99 % unfaithfull people [they don"t believe in Jesus]...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  3. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Riberra,

    Yes we know that there was a partial fulfilment of that scripture and people had to flee, re: 70AD, however the scripture goes on to say that Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles till their time is up. You seem to agree with that, so what is the trouble? Why say I never read in context?

    Marilyn.
     
  4. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Satan will give is power to angel Abaddon...who is the Beast who shall ascend out of the Bottomless Pit...That will be Abaddon[the Beast] that will be wounded at the head Revelation 13:3-4 that the World shall wonder Revelation 17:8 ...NOT a ordinary human that will be possesseded by Satan as you claim.

    There is no Bible verses saying that the one that will be wounded at the Head will be possessed by Satan.look very well at the text of Revelation 13:3-4.

    God Bless !
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  5. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Riberra,

    So let`s look at Rev. 13: 3 & 4.

    `Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

    I saw one of its heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marvelled and followed the beast.` (Rev. 13: 3 & 4)

    Now we need to go where God first mentioned those animals. To Daniel ch. 7. There we read that God calls them kingdoms and kings. (Dan. 7: 17 & 23) This is because God identifies the leader (king) with its kingdom. Thus when we read in Rev. 13 the composite beast, we realise that it is the 4 kingdoms and also their leader.

    So it is that the `beast,` refers to the kingdom/federation and the leader. And only a Gentile person can be the leader of the final Gentile Global Government that God will judge. No angel will count as a Gentile person ruling the world.

    Marilyn.
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Read from the KJV, the wording gives a completely different meaning. :and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    It is not Abaddon because angels don't die and come back to life, resurrected. And Abaddon is not released until the fifth seal.
    It doesn't say that the beast will be in power - then Satan gives him his power.

    Getting power from Satan is part of what makes the person the beast. In Daniel 8, it indicates that the person. as the little horn, is getting power at some level from Satan years before he becomes the beast.

    Daniel 8:
    24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  7. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  8. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    There is NO resurrection implyied ...
    The wound only SEEMED to be mortal ---KJV say AS IF IT WAS A MORTAL WOUND....and THE WOUND WAS HEALED .

    Your problem is that you think that the AC/BEAST is associated with the first rider mentioned at the opening of the first seal in Revelation 6.

    While the Bible tell us that he shall ascend out of the Bottomless Pit Revelation 17:8

    That is what is also written in Revelation 13:3-4 about the head wounded ----do you notice that he have the SAME attributes that what is mentioned in Revelation 17:8....IE THE BEAST THAT THE EARTH SHALL WONDER... all those whose names are not written in the Book of life..
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  9. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    That was fulfilled in 70 AD.

    Luke 21:20-24

    20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.

    21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.

    22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

    23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.

    24 a)And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations:
    b)and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    Jerusalem is still throdded down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled....which will happen Unto the Coming Of Jesus in Glory.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The term "Antichrist" does not appear in Revelation. In Revelation 6, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit is not mentioned.

    Revelation 6-19 is about those 7 years of Daniel 9:27 - which begin when the prince who shall come (and is anointed the King of Israel) confirms the covenant for 7 years.

    The confirming of the covenant every 7 years is a requirement that Moses made in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders of Israel.

    Revelation 6 essentially is overview of the 7 years. The first rider is given a crown at the start of the 7 years. That is rider is the Antichrist, the person having being anointed the King of Israel - that's what makes him the Antichrist - anit-(Jesus)Christ, Jesus the rightful King of Israel.

    The person while he is in the role of the Antichrist is not in the role of being the beast. Becoming the beast is after being the Antichrist is over. In sequence, the person's roles relevant to the 7 years.

    1. The little horn - leader of the EU before the 7 years begin
    2. The prince who shall come - following Gog/Magog, apparent messiah in the eyes of the Jews.
    3. Becomes the Antichrist - anointed the king of Israel, the rider on the white horse, the 7 years begin
    4. reveals himself as the man of sin - ending his Antichrist period - 3 years 3 months into the 7 years.
    5. becomes the beast - at 3 years 3 months, the two witnesses battle him
    6. as the beast in Revelation 13 - rules the world the last 42 months unopposed by the two witnesses, who will have left this world
     
  11. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Is it true that you believe that the rider of the white horse mentioned in Revelation 6:1-2 is the ANTICHRIST/Little Horn ?
    Revelation 6:1-2
    1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, Come.

    2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer.
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Daniel 8 gives insight into the person before he becomes the beast. Becoming the little horn is several steps away from him becoming the beast.

    He rises to power but not by his power. It is indicating that he is into the occult. Along the way after he becomes the King of Israel, he becomes convinced in his heart that he has achieved God-hood. 3 years 3 months (thereabouts) into his reign as King of Israel, he commits the transgression of desolation of 2thessalonians2:4. This is all before he becomes the beast of Revelation 13.

    Daniel 8, says that he magnifies himself in his heart. When he claims to be God, in Ezekiel 28:1-10, God has him killed for the 2thessalonians2:4 act, and it says in Ezekiel 28:1-10, in his heart he thinks he is God. The person finds himself in hell in Isaiah 14. Not for long, as God in disdain for the person kicks him out of the grave, bring him back to life.

    It is then that the person becomes the beast of Revelation 13, displaying the attribute that he has achieved God-hood - which I think he is going to claim to have overcome death. In Daniel 11:38, he honors the god of forces, therefore, he believes in many gods - but he claims to be at the top of them all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It is the same person - but in Revelation 6:2, the person has become the King of Israel, the Antichrist. It is not focusing on him in that verse as being the little horn, because as the little horn, he is essentially associated with the EU, the Roman Empire of the end times.

    Why I am such a stickler for calling the person by whatever role he is in at the time - is it is critical to understanding how all the events fit together. And also to be correct, in concert with the terms in the text.

    (for example, you wouldn't call President Obama - Senator Obama - while he is the sitting president of the United States, would you? Different roles)

    I used to write Antichrist/beast or maybe little horn/beast or maybe (as you write) Antichrist/little horn. I don't do that any more, because it leads to confusion and error - just as, generically, calling the person the Antichrist for the full seven years does - which almost everyone does Not realizing the significance of their error.

    As far as kingdoms go, there are three, which the person is associated with.

    1. The seventh king (and eighth) of the Roman Empire, the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7.

    2. The illegitimate King of Israel

    3. The king of Mystery Babylon the great (when hecomes possessed)
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  14. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  15. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    In another post you said that i have misinterpreted you about that claim ....
    You have STILL NOT provided any Bible verses saying that he will be possessed....

    What make you believe that the opening of the FIRST Seal Revelation 6:1-2 ,is about the Little Horn mentioned in Daniel 8 ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    There is no verse that says the person will be possessed. There is no other option, that fits will all the other verses concerning the person.

    The rider on the white horse is the Antichrist, illegitimate King of Israel. I did not say the little horn, athough it is the same person. The little horn person in Daniel 8, when he commits the transgression of desolations 8:12-13 he will be the illegitimate King of Israel at that time.*

    In Daniel 7, the person, as the little horn, first appears prohecy wise at the leader of the EU
    In Daniel 8, the person, as the little horn, as the leader of the EU, tries to deter the Gog/Maog invasion
    In Daniel 9, following Gog/Magog, the person as the prince who shall come arrives in the middle east
    In John 5, the person is the another, instead of Jesus, the Jews will anoint as the King of Israel.
    In Daniel 9:27, As the new king of Israel, the Antichrist, he confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.
    It is then that he is the rider on the white horse, the crown is his being anointed the King of Israel, the Antichrist.

    *three years three months into his reign as the King of Israel, the Antichrist, the person commits the transgression of desolation, 8:12-13. the act described in 2thessalonians2:4. That will end his time as the Antichrist, the King of Israel; because of the act, the Jews will be mortified and will no longer want him as their king.
     
  17. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Are you suggesting that the 'person' WOUNDED AT THE HEAD Revelation 13:3-4 will die and will come back to life BEACAUSE HE WILL BE POSSESSED ?
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No. I am saying God has the person killed, then in disdain for the person, God brings him back to life. And at that time, the person becomes possessed - because the unclean spirit is allowed out the bottomless pit.

    It is a gray area if this is at the exact moment the person is cast out of the grave or not. The person is in hell, and from the story of the rich man and the Lazarus, there was a great chasm separating them. It does not say what the chasm is - but it could be the bottomless pit.

    The unclean spirit called the beast in Revelation 17:8a could be a promise of empowerment that Satan offers the person. The bible doesn't say. But in some way the beast in 17:8a is associated with mystery Babylon and rebellion against God. Which, to me, Nimrod is a likely fit, because he led the world in united rebellion against God, in building the tower of babel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  19. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that Nimrod is the ANGEL of the bottomless pit -the KING of the 'locusts' mentioned in Revelation 9:11- ?
    Revelation 9:11
    11 They have over them as king the ANGEL of the bottomless pit: his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek [tongue] he hath the name Apollyon.
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No, Nimrod is not the angel of the bottomless pit. Nimrod is not over the locust. Nimrod was not an angel, but would have to had become a nephilim, tucked away in his genes that emerged when he got older. If the person as the beast in the bottomless pit is Nimrod.
     
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