The Bible's Laws on Divorce and Remarriage.

[Vicomte13]

What has been put forth on this thread:

1. It is better to die at the hands of an abusing spouse than get a divorce.

2. Adultery is justification for the death penalty.

3. If you are a Christian who is divorced and remarried you are in an unforgivable state of adultery and the only way out is to get another divorce in order to repent from the adultery and then repent from the second divorce, but that is another intentional sin so it may not be forgiven (grey area).

4. If you are a Christian and made an unwise decision at a very young age and got married and divorced- well too bad - it’s the single life and celibacy for you for the next 60 years or so. Sorry.

5. True Christians don’t sin. But on the rare and off chance they do, if they die before officially repenting, they are doomed. Even if they lived up to the two greatest commandments, it’s out the window until official repentance.

If there were any people reading this thread who were trying to learn about Christianity and struggling with the faith they are long gone. The legalistic zealots have chased them away.

But this is what they actually believe. And in fairness to them, that IS what the Bible LITERALLY SAYS. I keep re-quoting what they quote - yes, John really did say that the born again never sin again.

So, if you sin again, you are not born again, and not REALLY a Christian with God at all - and are doomed to the lake of fire.

This has made some of them mad. But the ONE THING that NOT ONE CHRISTIAN READING THIS has ever, or will ever, be able to do is to post the response: "I was born again a year ago, and I never once sinned again, just like John said."

And if one DID post that, we ALL KNOW FOR SURE that he's a LIAR, and by posting it he has, right there, committed a mortal sin which Jesus says, elsewhere in the Bible (twice on the last two pages of Revelation, actually) will damn him to the Lake of Fire.

So, I have laid a trap before the soul of the over-eager zealot, offering him the opportunity to "refute me" by telling a lie that, by his Bible, will cost him his immortal soul.

Nobody answers my challenge, because nobody CAN. We all sin again.
GIVEN THAT, the fact that remarried divorcees sin again by remarrying is just another one of those sins that people commit - and WE ALL COMMIT THEM AGAIN - and there is no good reason to focus on THAT ONE SIN and say to those unfortunate people "Well, YOU are a damned sinner because YOU remarried again after divorce, contrary to Jesus' commandment, and THAT is ESPECIALLY damned - even though I too am a sinner who has sinned again and again and again, I'm NOT damned in the same way that YOU are damned, because...well...because I say so!"

It's preposterous.

Pointing it out focuses on a sharp and impossible contradiction in the Bible, and forces people to face an issue that cannot be resolved.

There are many paths through the Bible. One is the path of harsh judgment...which leads to universal damnation. Jesus said that those who judge without mercy will be judged without mercy.

Of course, he ALSO said that those who judge with mercy will be judged with mercy, and that those who forgive everything will be forgiven everything - as you measure, so shall it be measured out to you.

Meaning that there is ANOTHER path through the Bible that leads to forgiveness of the sins of re-sinning again (forgiven Seventy-Times Seventy!) and forgiveness for the sin of adultery after remarriage (you will be forgiven to the extent that you forgive). This gentler path will lead to a gentle judgment.

People like to be hard-asses. Jesus told them they'll be hard-asses screaming in Hell after final judgment if they persist in it. I'm merely inviting themselves to dig themselves in deeper, because they choose to be relentless, unforgiving and unmerciful.

Yep, Jesus said it's adultery. So some people are gonna have to commit adultery to be happy. And they can and should be forgiven that, just as we forgive everything else. We forgive it, God forgives us. They forgive others, they're forgiven it too, and we have a happy ending.

Get legalistic and zealous, and the zealot can't make the forgiving adulteress burn in Hell, but he sure can make sure that God throws HIM in there.

 

[Vicomte13]

If there were any people reading this thread who were trying to learn about Christianity and struggling with the faith they are long gone. The legalistic zealots have chased them away.

Look what our two denominations did to each other in the first century of their co-existence. The theological points of both sides were extreme, and lots of blood was shed and flesh was burnt. Both were wrong for doing that. We got the message. You got it. I got it. Some others seem to have missed the memo.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is directly on target in every way. As was my previous post. Quoting the Bible where what is says is not done by ANYBODY ON EARTH and asserting that it's true MEANS that EVERYBODY ON EARTH is damned, according to the very text you quote.

SINCE all Christians sin again (and again and again, regardless of John's untrue statement to the contrary), we are left with a real world fact: what the Bible says about not sinning again isn't true. We do. We all do. So, what now?

Say that the comment is "off topic" to evade it and pretend that it doesn't exist and there isn't an elephant in the room. Well, there is.

We are Christians, and we sin again. Remarriage after divorce is just one of the examples where human beings sin again. It's not DIFFERENT from any other sinning again. (And NOT remarrying to remain true to the Scriptures, but masturbating instead is no better than remarrying and being an adulterer.)

I'm not disagreeing that Jesus said it's a sin, and that sexual immorality is a sin (and that masturbation - the lewd thoughts that accompany it - is the sin of sexual immorality) and that they are mortal sins. I'm not disputing that Jesus said that remarriage after divorce is adultery, which is sexual immorality. Nor am I disputing that John wrote that those who are born again of God don't sin again.

I am noting that everybody sins again. That is true. Deny it. (Remember that lying is a mortal sin.)
Don't speak in the ABSTRACT about some theoretical person out there who never sinned again. Step right up there and imperil your own immortal soul and declare that since you were born again in the Spirit of God, you have never once sinned again. Go ahead.

You're too smart to do that.

What we have here is a logical paradox, and it's right there in the Bible. I understand why you don't want to address it, but it's not going to go away (and neither am I, on this very point).

If John is true as written, then you're not really born of the Spirit of God, and neither am I, and neither is anybody else who is reading this because we all have sinned again. John says that means we are not born of the spirit of God. And that means we're damned, not saved.

So, then, why fuss at divorced people who remarried. Yes, they're adulterers, they'll be in Hell right alongside you and me, because you sinned again after you were born again, and so you're not saved. That's what that text you keep quoting says. It says that nobody reading this is saved, we're all damned and doomed.

Why, then, go on bothering the remarried divorcees. They're adulterers. So what? They're no MORE damned than you or I - that's what John is telling you.

I note that John is not God, and that what he said cannot square with what Jesus said. So I discard the words of John as contradicting Jesus, and therefore not the words that proceed from the mouth of God. John wrote what he wrote. It's not literally true.

If it is, then where is the Christian who will state before God and man right here that he NEVER SINNED AGAIN after he was born again. Where is he? Still waiting for him. (He's never going to show up - so either John is wrong, or he's right and we're all damned. Pick your poison: an imperfect John, or the surety of your own damnation because of what John said.)

Not going to discuss this with you. You are again off topic and I also feel you would not understand or accept anything I would say with Scripture, either.

May God bless you.

 

[RDKirk]

That is the whole issue - what Scripture says, and what they understood it, at the time, to mean.

I do not believe that in the verses quoted Jesus was saying that it is ALWAYS wrong for us - especially when we have many circumstances today that the Bible does not even address.
Sure, I think he was saying that God doesn't like divorce, and it it not his ideal for us. God doesn't like any sin; rejecting him, and hurting, and failing to love, our neighbour is not God's ideal for us. He is love, and hates the effects that sin has on people. But he is also merciful.

An important point of Jesus' statement is that the woman unjustly divorced by her husband is caused to sin by her husband. There is sin, yes, and everyone is involved in it...but there is also the distinction of one person being the active cause and one person being the passive victim who is reacting to the initial cause.

In another place Jesus speaks of someone being caused to sin (little children), and He states that the person who causes another to sin is the one who will be punished.

In other words, Jesus is not a cruel martinet with a mechanical concept of guilt and innocence. Even though the entire issue of divorce puts everyone involved under a cloud of sin, He knows perfectly well who is at moral fault (although sometimes it might be both).

So, let's say a man unjustly leaves his Christian wife and her children, goes off and joins himself to another woman.

The idea of a young, unattached, non-virginal woman in the congregation was actually another thing Paul wasn't happy about.

According to Paul's instruction to Timothy, such a woman ought to remarry, because she's too young to go on the widow's and single mother's list (her children are fatherless), and because she still has a natural desire for a husband (having had and lost her husband, just like a widow), she's likely to be a lightning rod for discord in the congregation.

 

[Vicomte13]

.

I do not believe that in the verses quoted Jesus was saying that it is ALWAYS wrong for us

I actually do. But I think it's like teenage masturbation. BECAUSE we have an economic structure that does not permit us to marry at the age we were designed to (puberty), therefore, the mortal sin of inappropriate contenteia - in which masturbation is included - is inevitable. No normal teenager, particularly teenaged male has ever been able to resist it completely. Not one. Anywhere. Ever.

God doesn't change his rule: it's STILL a mortal sin. But God FORGIVES EVERYTHING, if we (the former teenagers) likewise forgive.

When we become judgmental zealots about inevitable and irresistible sins (like masturbation, or remarriage for love after divorce), then we condemn ourselves, but the sinner himself or herself is easily forgiven by God as long as S/HE is forgiving and non-judgmental.

The answer is not to say that it isn't a sin. It is.
The answer is not to say that somehow we can resist such sins. We can't.
The answer is to earnestly seek how Jesus us told us we could be forgiven our sins. He did. It's simple: forgive others theirs, and God will forgive you yours.

There's no more to it than that.

There are many paths through the Bible. Those in which the person tries to NOT be a sinner all lead to thorns, illogic and, ultimately, lies and the Lake of Fire.

The only path that gets you through the gates of the City of God after a successful final judgment is the one in which you were FORGIVEN all of your inevitable sins BECAUSE YOU FORGAVE everybody their sins against you, and because you judged them with the standard of leniency by which you would want to be judged.

It's just that simple. And just that infuriating to zealots who are hellbent on proving that a sinless life CAN be led (no, it can't), or that THEY are no longer guilty of sins (yes, they are), or that there's some sort of mental belief structure that will substitute for forgiveness of people they don't like (no, there isn't).

The path is narrow. The only logic path that works is forgiveness in order to be forgiven, and judging with mercy and forgiveness SO THAT one will be judged by the same standards by which one judged. Jesus presented that as a path, and in truth it is the only one that clears the traps that are in the way of the other paths.

Judgmental zealots all burn in Hell, by the logic of the Bible. So if you know one, tell him to repent of that or burn.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What has been put forth on this thread:

1. It is better to die at the hands of an abusing spouse than get a divorce.

God hates divorce. Do you hate the things God hates? Also, you do realize that Christians are persecuted for standing up for what is good and in obeying God, right? Granted, I am not saying that a Christian should remain in an abusive home; Surely they can seek to flee away from this kind of person.

2. Adultery is justification for the death penalty.

Spiritual death only if they die and do not repent (seek God's forgiveness). I am not talking about capital punishment like stoning or the electric chair or anything. Jesus made it clear that the judicial laws were not to be enforced in His New Covenant teachings by the hands of believers with the woman caught in the act of adultery. Governments are to enforce moral justice (See Romans 13).

3. If you are a Christian who is divorced and remarried you are in an unforgivable state of adultery and the only way out is to get another divorce in order to repent from the adultery and then repent from the second divorce, but that is another intentional sin so it may not be forgiven (grey area).

I have recently changed my position on this. It is unclear in the text. It certainly is a possibility, but I also do see the possibility that a man can remarry if the wife was unfaithful. But this is the only clause of exception we see in Scripture for remarriage (See Matthew 19:9).

4. If you are a Christian and made an unwise decision at a very young age and got married and divorced- well too bad - it’s the single life and celibacy for you for the next 60 years or so. Sorry.

Our life is not our own. We are bought and paid for with a price. We are to be followers of Jesus and not ourselves and this world and our own pleasures. For he that loves his life shall lose it (John 12:25).

5. True Christians don’t sin. But on the rare and off chance they do, if they die before officially repenting, they are doomed. Even if they lived up to the two greatest commandments, it’s out the window until official repentance.

Ananias and Sapphira. Judas. Names can be blotted out of the book of life. If names were forever there in the book of life, then they could not be blotted out. Jesus warns us of the dangers of just lusting after a woman and that by doing so, they could be cast bodily into hell fire.

If there were any people reading this thread who were trying to learn about Christianity and struggling with the faith they are long gone. The legalistic zealots have chased them away.

When you say legalists, it is true that we are not saved by Law Alone (because we do have God's grace if a believer honestly does stumble on rare occasion in their early walk with God), but you are assuming that God is against the importance of law keeping for His people. Yet, Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). In fact, one of the ways a person can have an assurance of knowing God is if they find they are keeping His commandments (See 1 John 2:3). However, the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them (See 1 John 2:4).

 

[Vicomte13]

An important point of Jesus' statement is that the woman unjustly divorced by her husband is caused to sin by her husband. There is sin, yes, and everyone is involved in it...but there is also the distinction of one person being the active cause and one person being the passive victim who is reacting to the initial cause.

In another place Jesus speaks of someone being caused to sin (little children), and He states that the person who causes another to sin is the one who will be punished.

In other words, Jesus is not a cruel martinet with a mechanical concept of guilt and innocence. Even though the entire issue of divorce puts everyone involved under a cloud of sin, He knows perfectly well who is at moral fault (although sometimes it might be both).

Well, of course he causes her to sin. She's a woman, of normal function, and still desires sex. Now she's not married, and can't remarry without being an adulteress - a sin. So, she can remarry and be an adulteress - sinning - or not remarry and be a masturbator - equally sinning. Either way, his divorce has caused her to sin.

In a fantasy world she could not have sex of any kind again. No woman like that exists or ever has, so that's just fairy tale. She's going to sin. And it's because she's divorced.

Given that it's inevitable, and will be repeated, is she damned? No. There's a way through the thicket that doesn't involve Santa Claus (no sex again, ever), and that doesn't involve not admitting that sin is sin.

It's listening to Jesus. He said you're forgiven everything if you forgive. So, if SHE forgives others their sins, particularly this sin, because she understands, then Jesus promises to forgive her, and the sin doesn't ULTIMATELY matter. That's the ONLY WAY through the problem that really works.

 

[Vicomte13]

Not going to discuss this with you. You are again off topic and I also feel you would not understand or accept anything I would say with Scripture, either.

Translation: you have no answer to what I said, so you're going to put me on the ignore button. That's fine.

EVERYBODY ELSE: Time stamp 1:35 PM 12/19/2018. Waiting for the Christian who has been born again for a year or more to prove me wrong and declare that since he was born again, he never sinned again.

It's over an hour later: still waiting.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Translation: you have no answer to what I said, so you're going to put me on the ignore button. That's fine.

EVERYBODY ELSE: Time stamp 1:35 PM 12/19/2018. Waiting for the Christian who has been born again for a year or more to prove me wrong and declare that since he was born again, he never sinned again.

It's over an hour later: still waiting.

I just strive not to talk with people about the Bible in-depth who seek to justify sin to such an extreme level. It would be like casting away pearls of God's precious Word before them that they would not appreciate.

In these cases, I feel the only thing I can do is preach the gospel to such individuals and to tell them about Christ's love and the pain that he suffered for our sins so that we can be set free from sin.

May God's love shine upon you today, dear sir;
And for the moment, lets agree to disagree in civility.

Peace, and blessings in the Lord to you and your family.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, that is what it says. Either it’s wrong (the better answer), or it’s true and Christians are all damned, because they all sin again.

You have quoted this a couple of times. That’s what it says. Who reading this is willing to stand up and say: it’s true! I was born again of God, and I have never sinned again! (Remember, please, before you stand up and say that, that lying is itself a sin the Jesus said will earn you the Lake of Fire, so don't lie!)

I will bet that not one single person reading this will stand up and say: it’s true! I was born again of God, and I never sinned again.

No one - not one of you - can stand up and truly state that you have not sinned again, so then either you’re not really of God (if John is right), or you are, and John is wrong.

Time stamp 1:35 PM 12/19/2018. Waiting for the Christian who has been born again for a year or more to prove me wrong and declare that since he was born again, he never sinned again.

Remember: lying is a mortal sin, so don't answer in haste to "prove a point" if the point is not true: you'll be sinning by doing so.

I’ll be watching and waiting for a response. I’m going to be waiting a long time.

We need to go by what the bible says and interpret our experience according to that. I experience daily what I'm talking about. As Paul says in 2 Timothy 4:5 to make full proof of our ministry.

 

[Dave L]

Well, if it was a young Christian woman who was deserted by her spouse, we pretty much do have an instruction from Paul:

As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry.

Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge.
Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to.

So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. -- 1 Timothy 5

Every part of the reason a young widow was instructed to marry would apply as strongly to a believing woman who had been divorced by her unbelieving husband--a situation I suspect was fairly common (and Justin Martyr records a particular instance). Joanna in Jerusalem could have wound up like that.

And the reason would be: Unbelievers are dead...in Christ.

There are many dedicated Christian women who remain single after their husbands leave them.

 

[eleos1954]

No - I am agreeing with the words of the bible. Look it up. Fornication (inappropriate contentia) and adultery (moichaō) are not the same thing.

Does it depend on how it's used such as in context?

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

inappropriate contenteia


1) illicit sexual intercourse

1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mark 10:11,Mark 10:12

2) metaphorically the worship of idols

2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols


Part of Speech: noun feminine

Relation: from G4203

Citing in TDNT: 6:579, 918

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What about someone who is married to a violent wife beater?

OR what if someone is owned, i.e. a 'captive' (willing) servant or slave , by
someone who is not kind to them ?
Specifically, only from the Bible, what are the instructions from God's Word to the slave(s) (not God's instructions to the slave owners, but to the slaves) ?

 

[Dave-W]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

Part of the problem is sources like Strongs and Thayers is the fact they are using a normal Koine Greek vocabulary rather than the sub-dialect spoken by the diaspora Jewish community.

In that context, inappropriate contentia means anything that violates Torah sexual rules.

It is close, but not identical. Sex during menses would be included as well.

 

[RDKirk]

There are many dedicated Christian women who remain single after their husbands leave them.

And there are, I'm sure, widows as well.

But Paul said what he said.

 

[Celticroots]

What has been put forth on this thread:

1. It is better to die at the hands of an abusing spouse than get a divorce.

2. Adultery is justification for the death penalty.

3. If you are a Christian who is divorced and remarried you are in an unforgivable state of adultery and the only way out is to get another divorce in order to repent from the adultery and then repent from the second divorce, but that is another intentional sin so it may not be forgiven (grey area).

4. If you are a Christian and made an unwise decision at a very young age and got married and divorced- well too bad - it’s the single life and celibacy for you for the next 60 years or so. Sorry.

5. True Christians don’t sin. But on the rare and off chance they do, if they die before officially repenting, they are doomed. Even if they lived up to the two greatest commandments, it’s out the window until official repentance.

If there were any people reading this thread who were trying to learn about Christianity and struggling with the faith they are long gone. The legalistic zealots have chased them away.

Or makes believers unable to reconcile how a God who would rather someone be beaten to death than get a divorce, or condemn someone to a lifetime of loneliness because they made the mistake of marrying the wrong person, could be a God of compassion and mercy.

Not to mention that some wrong people only resort to their bad behavior after the ring is on the finger.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So then, stay with, or get back to God's Word, trusting the Almighty,

or not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So then, stay with, or get back to God's Word, trusting the Almighty,

or not.

There is power in the Word of God.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

i also worked as a victim advocate/case manager with victims who suffered horrendously and were forced to go into hiding, change their name, etc. Even though the shelter was a secret place/location, an abuser broke into the back door and kidnapped his child....i was on duty, called the police and the officer and i rode in the cruiser in the direction he ran to. The officer caught him, and he was arrested. The child and i were returned to the shelter and the distraught and terrified mom. Even as this mom and child were in a "safe" place, completely secret, and there was a restraining order and an order of protection prohibiting the abuser go anywhere near the mom and child, he found out where she was and broke into the shelter in the dead of night. Mom and child had to be relocated and to change her name, etc.

These circumstances are describing spouses and children who "flee" like "refugees". The Bible, all throughout it, speaks of what WE are to do with those headed for death and destruction, and to speak out and intervene and release the ones in danger/fleeing from the grip of evil men.

I'm a former victim of horrendous abuse...at least once when i was very pregnant. The shelter i sought refuge from, is where i was hired, months later. They offered me the job as victim advocate/crisis counselor. Later i was promoted to case manager.

I loved your post. It shows that you totally understand what I am talking about.
The tragedy in churches is that ignorant pastors and counsellors will tell abused wives to "love your husband more", or "be more submissive", or accuse them of not being submissive or loving enough and that is the reason why the husband is abusing them. Evil pastors like that should be hung drawn and quartered and that would be treating them with much more kindness than what they deserve!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well, if it was a young Christian woman who was deserted by her spouse, we pretty much do have an instruction from Paul:

As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry.

Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge.
Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to.

So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. -- 1 Timothy 5

Every part of the reason a young widow was instructed to marry would apply as strongly to a believing woman who had been divorced by her unbelieving husband--a situation I suspect was fairly common (and Justin Martyr records a particular instance). Joanna in Jerusalem could have wound up like that.

And the reason would be: Unbelievers are dead...in Christ.

Paul uses the term "unbeliever" who which many attach the meaning that it is an unconverted spouse. But it could very well mean a spouse who no longer believes in the marriage and that there is no future in it for him or her. That's just my opinion and I'm not building a doctrine around it.
The verse also says that the deserted partner is "not under bondage". Some have added to what Paul says by saying that the deserted partner must remain single while the deserting spouse is still alive. But Paul never wrote that addition. That is just the personal opinion of those who are rigid in the religiousness about divorce and remarriage. I believe that when Paul says "not under bondage" it means just that. The deserted spouse is totally free to live how he or she wants and to remarry if he or she wishes, without restriction or condemnation. This means that a deserted spouse can remarry without being accused of adultery or any other sin.

It is interesting that some of these Pharisaical folk are rigid about what Paul says about divorce and remarriage, but refuse to believe other portions of 1 Corinthians, such as chapters 12 and 14. If they applied the same rigidity to those two chapters as they do to divorce and remarriage, they would all be speaking in tongues, prophesying, casting out demons, getting people healed, etc.

Consistency!!! Thou art a precious treasure!!!!