The Bible or Calvinism

[jimmyjimmy]

How can a Christian be miserable? Or vacillate between arrogance and self-hatred.

Unlike most evangelicals, I took God's law dealt seriously. I didn't lower the bar. Since no man can obey God's law, we must rest in Christ's finished work.

(bad) Evangelical Christianity says, "come in for free" and then once you are in, it's all up to you.

 

[RisenInJesus]

Unlike most evangelical, I took God's law dealt seriously. I didn't lower the bar.

Well, if you took God's law in the wrong way, applying it to yourself as a burden then you were not taking the gospel message in the right way. Only God knows where your understanding was, but possibly you were not actually saved and free in Christ. Actually the law of Christ, as opposed to the OT law, elevates the bar, yet it is fulfilled in Him and that gives a believer peace and rest. ( Matt. 11:28)

 

[RisenInJesus]

Unlike most evangelicals, I took God's law dealt seriously. I didn't lower the bar. Since no man can obey God's law, we must rest in Christ's finished work.

(bad) Evangelical Christianity says, "come in for free" and then once you are in, it's all up to you.

Just curious were you raised in a Christian home and church?

 

[ladodgers6]

The Five Articles of the Remonstrants

Article 1.
Conditional Election

Article 2.
Unlimited Atonement

Article 3.
Deprivation

Article 4.
Resistible Grace

Article 5.
Assurance and Security

D epraved inability of human function
A rbitrary selection of the divinely favored
I nequitable limitation of Christ's redemption
S ystemic coercion of the predetermined
Y oked confinement of Christian believers

​

 

[Hammster]

Servetus in 3...2...1...

John Calvin hated AnaBaptist, and even accused Michael Servetus of being AnaBaptist, whom he would later roast at the stake. I do not see how Baptist like the Calvin guy when he hated them in return.

Didn't take long.

 

[RisenInJesus]

(bad) Evangelical Christianity says, "come in for free" and then once you are in, it's all up to you.

I never heard anything taught that way.

 

[ladodgers6]

What do you mean by saying "here's an example" and then you ask a question? Do you believe R.C. Sproul. J.I. Packer, Michael Horton, Charles Hodge, B.B. Warfield and others caricarture Classical Calvinism?

Are you one of these people? Are you a Calvinist? If, not can you explain Covenant Theology? That's my example.

 

[Hammster]

Sure, but that doesn't mean what you believe is true. You seem to have insulated yourself in a room of relativism where proofs don't exist and Calvinism is invincible.

You missed the point.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Well, if you took God's law in the wrong way, applying it to yourself as a burden then you were not taking the gospel message in the right way. Only God knows where your understanding was, but possibly you were not actually saved and free in Christ. Actually the law of Christ, as opposed to the OT law, elevates the bar, yet it is fulfilled in Him and that gives a believer peace and rest. ( Matt. 11:28)

Have you read the book of Galatians?

Do you think that Christians are regenerated and then have perfect theology and practice?

 

[RisenInJesus]

Didn't take long.

Why should it take long. Jesus said we will know true believers by their fruits. John Calvin's attitude and treatment of others did not exactly line up with the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Hammster]

Here's your problem: you're looking at a Baptist confession rather than a Reformed confession. Close but no cigar.

It is a Reformed confession.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Just curious were you raised in a Christian home and church?

I was raised in the Roman Church, and God called me to Himself when I was 17. From there I was in an Evangelical Free Church, which taught, like most non-reformed churches, a very moralistic Christianity.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

fruits of the Spirit.

That's *fruit*, not fruits.

 

[DeaconDean]

You are not reading correctly. I do believe in the sovereignty of God as the scriptures reveal,

Then you disagree with Romans 9.

but not "sovereignty" as defined by Calvinism.

Here again, read what John Calvin wrote.

Just as you have a sovereign right as parent of your children to raise them either good or evil, God has this right as well.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[RisenInJesus]

Have you read the book of Galatians?

Do you think that Christians are regenerated and then have perfect theology and practice?

Yes, I have read Galatians. Why should I think regenerated Christians then have perfect theology and practice? I don't. Although, I often wonder what Calvinists think about this. After all, if God irresistibly draws the elect to salvation why then doesn't He apply the same irresistible grace to sanctification?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Here again, read what John Calvin wrote.

Just as you have a sovereign right as parent of your children to raise them either good or evil, God has this right as well.

God Bless

Till all are one.

It's even stronger than that. We just borrow our kids. He owns us and our kids.

 

[RisenInJesus]

That's *fruit*, not fruits.

You are right...fruit of the Spirit.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Yes, I have read Galatians. Why should I think regenerated Christians then have perfect theology and practice? I don't. Although, I often wonder what Calvinists think about this. After all, if God irresistibly draws the elect to salvation why then doesn't He apply the same irresistible grace to sanctification?

He does.

However, He also uses means. He does not zap sin out of us. He brings us through a process of coming to the end of ourselves.

 

[Hammster]

I asked what the Bible says about election. This says passage nothing about election.

The clear message of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is that all mankind have been “chosen to salvation” by God who would “have all men to be saved...” (1 Tm 2:4), who is “the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe” (4:10), and whose Son “gave himself a ransom for all” (2:6). The fact that one has been “chosen” to salvation does not mean that one has been elected or predestined for heaven, but that one is a sinner, and according to the scriptures, all sinners have the opportunity to believe the gospel and be saved, which most refuse to do.

The same biblical truth is demonstrated also in Israel: “The Lord your God has chosen you to be a special people unto himself...” (Deut 7:6). That “choosing” did not automatically mean that every physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was elected to salvation.

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Why give thanks to God if He really didn't choose them?

This is typical of synergists when presented with texts that give support for Reformed theology. Instead of addressing the text, often we get "yeah but" responses. And those are usually snippets of scripture thrown together to make a semblance of an argument, but really aren't one.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

You are right...fruit of the Spirit.

One "s" - one letter makes a theological difference. That's why, if an Arminian would carefully looked at his holy trinity of proof texts, he would see that they don't mean what he thought they did.

Give it a shot.