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Featured The Bible Is A Catholic Book

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by packermann, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. packermann

    packermann Junior Member

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    True, it is God's Word. It originated by God, inspired by the Holy Spirit. But God compiled and preserved the Bible through the Catholic Church.

    We do not have any of the original Biblical documents. They are long gone! What we have instead are copies and copies of the documents. Who wrote them? Hermits wrote them. They were celibates who lived in caves. Thank the Lord for celibacy! If these men were married with children they would not have had the time to write these copies. And later on, it was done by Catholic monks. This had to be done until the 16th century before the printing press was created. Thanks to the Catholic, and Orthodox, monks we have the Bible that we have today.

    But not only this. The Catholic Church compiled the Bible from different documents. Up until the 6th century, there was no such thing as the "Bible". Instead, you had the the gospels, the letters of Paul, the letters of Peter, etc. It was the Church that put them all together into what we now call the Bible. This was not a small task! For instance, there were 19 different gospels. I do not know them all, but I am aware of the Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Judas, the Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. The Church had a Council to determine which ones were genuine. They only accepted Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John as being the genuine gospels. Well, first they prayed for the Holy Spirit. But they did more than that. They used common sense. They knew the teaching that was passed from the apostles, to the apostle's disciples, and to the next generation of disciples. Other gospels (Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Judas, the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Mary Magdalene, etc) contradicted what was passed down to them. So they knew they were forgeries. They used the teaching of what was passed down to them to determine what was genuine and put them in the Bible. Now, could this Council be wrong? To the Catholic, no - the Holy Spirit had worked infallibly to give us a Bible that is a genuine Word of God. But I do not see how the Protestant can be sure. The Protestant believes that no Council is infallible. So it is possible that this Council made mistakes. Maybe the Gospel of Matthew should not have been in the Bible. And maybe the Gospel of Peter should be in the Bible. Who knows? The problem is that the Protestant does not have an objective standard to determine that. It seems to me that the only standard the Protestant has is that the Bible as is gives him a certain feeling or that the Bible as is is what he was brought up with.

    The point of this thread is to point out we would not have the Bible as we have it today if we had never had tradition. Tradition means "to pass on". God did not drop the Bible from the sky. It was passed on from copies and copies. The Bible is part of written tradition. But the compilation of the Bible was determined by accepting only the documents that were in harmony with oral tradition. Those that contradict oral tradition were rejected. So the Bible vs. Tradition is a false dichotomy. The Bible is part of tradition! There are false, man-made traditions. But there is a true tradition that the Holy Spirit has led just as not all gospels are true gospels (Gospel of Thomas is a false gospel). We do not reject all oral traditions simply they are oral. And we do not accept all written traditions simply because it is written.

    The Bible is a Catholic Book. God preserved and compiled it through the Catholic Book. This is why it can only be translated and interpreted it by Catholic Church.

    BTW, I did post this on another forum. So if you do find it there, that does not mean I stole this from someone else. In both forums I use the same name.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  2. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    Perhaps the protestant would agree with you. As neither catholic nor protestant, I simply believe that God through the working of the Holy Spirit is able to preserve his perfect word. A council full of fallible men doesn't change the infallibility of God. You trust in men, that they "had common sense." I trust in God, that all things work according to his will.

    And you will say, "I just said I believe the Holy Spirit worked to bring about the Bible as it is today," but not really. You think that these men were able to determine what was genuine based on tradition, not from any influence of the Spirit. God alone authors his word; not men through tradition, common sense, or any other vanity of mind. God alone is the only One who could have determined what books would be compiled as scripture.
     
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  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    I believe the times have produced seven general church congregations ...

    Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
    Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
    Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
    Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
    Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
    Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
    Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

    There are churches such as the Orthodox Church that have seniority over the Catholics.
     
  4. ~Zao~

    ~Zao~ Great is Thy Faithfulness Supporter

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    Up until the 6th century, there was no such thing as the “Bible” nor was there any distinction of church denominations. So the bible, the church, and the members were all one.

    Then came division.

    They became different branches stemming from the same root. The same bible, the same church fathers, the same members of Christ. Different denominations.

    But catholic or protestant, they all have the same roots.
     
  5. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    The problem is the OP's presumption that "Catholic" is somehow the unique possession of those churches which are in communion with the See of Rome.

    Yes, the Biblical Canon is the result of the Church's reception of certain books and the consensus of the catholic faith of the Church throughout history.

    But Rome doesn't have a monopoly on the Church's catholicity.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  6. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    "The bible is a Catholic book."

    I hear that it is an Orthodox book too. :liturgy:

    Seriously though, the Roman Catholic Church didn't exist until the 11th century. It is only fair if you say that Protestantism didn't exist until the 16th century.
     
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  7. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    Do you lean Baptist or are you Baptist?
     
  8. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    I'm not sure that's really fair, though. Many ancient Christians did look up to Rome as uniquely authoritative for many centuries prior to the Schism. To say that the Catholic Church began at the Schism sounds almost as inaccurate as saying the Eastern Orthodoxy began at the Schism, too. There was a split, to be sure, but either way you look at it, they were Apostolic Christians.
     
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  9. Lost4words

    Lost4words In reality, an old dog! Supporter

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    The Pope goes all the way back to Peter.
     
  10. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    It was the geographical, political, and theological sway and sphere of influence by which Rome was look up to than the East, and I don't blame the eastern churches for their concerns over this issue during those theological turbulent times. However, the "original" church began in Jerusalem before Alexandria, Antioch, etc.

    The term apostolic means very differently to the Roman Catholic Church than it did before the 6th century.
     
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  11. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    And yet, Apostolic means similar things to the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Catholic Christians. For all of them, this succession is important, and means something.
     
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  12. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    How many other metropolises claimed such apostolic succession?
     
  13. Lost4words

    Lost4words In reality, an old dog! Supporter

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    Catholic church doesnt just claim it. Its indeed fact.
     
  14. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    The succession is there, friend, for every one. For Antioch, Alexandria, etc. They all validly do have Apostolic Succession. The difficulty lies in how we do or do not see the role of the Bishop of Rome as Peter's successor.
     
  15. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    I don't believe that is true. The idea or conception of a Pontifex Maximus is not understood in the east, it is clearly made up.
     
  16. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    The Catholic church is indeed a Christian church... But will find she will have company in that last day!

    Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
    Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
    Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

    And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

    If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado?

    sevenages_zps36af611f.png
     
  17. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    Wut?
     
  18. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    And Peter goes all the way back to Antioch.
     
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  19. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    *grabs popcorn*
     
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  20. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❣️ His little lady ❣️ Supporter

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    I’m watching you. I have confidence you’ll do well. ;-)
     
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