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Featured The Bible: God's plan for the redemption of humankind? Or... ???

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Apr 7, 2021 at 7:19 AM.

  1. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That I won't be going there by the Grace of God.
    Romans 5:15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

    I notice that you like to pick out of Romans scriptures where Paul uses pas=all. Your misinterpretation
    is born out of the fact that Paul is arguing to Jews that salvation is not for the Jew only, but also the
    gentile. The Gospel is preached to "all nations", "and those who believe and are baptized will be saved".
    In chapter 11, when he says "all Israel" will be saved, it is because they are under a different covenant
    with YHWH, and are beloved because of the Patriarchs. Not because of righteousness, but because
    they bore the burden of the Law. We Gentiles are saved by Grace, that is extended unto believers.
    I am not supporting "eternal fires", the Truth is to be denied Eternal Life. That is not unmerciful.
    If someone enjoyed the privilege of life, and rejected eternal life for a life of rebellion and pleasures,
    there comes an end to that, it is called Death.

    Revelation 2:23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
     
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  2. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    You mean the one about the orthodox view of salvation?

     
  3. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A perfect example of "all nations", not Jews only. The overriding theme of Paul's letter to Rome. Misapplied to establish UR OUT OF CONTEXT
    Romans 3
    :
    29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles?
    Yes, of the Gentiles also,
    30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the
    uncircumcised through faith.
     
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Is that all the Bible has to say about God's mercy? Limited. (conditional)
    You make God out to be worse than a pagan or a tax collector. (traitor)

    Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
     
  5. East of Eden

    East of Eden Member

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    At least the ones who accept Christ's offer of salvation through faith in His atoning death on the cross.

    I'm not aware of anywhere in the NT where Jesus forgave an unrepentant person.
     
  6. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, he linked me to one called 2 chairs. Very familiar stuff that I did not find illuminating,
    although a sincere attempt was being made to be entertaining, as is common in modern
    preaching. A violation of Paul's principle of sound preaching:

    Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men?
    For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
     
  7. GOD Shines Forth!

    GOD Shines Forth! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There IS NO "other choice", true, so every fallen child of Adam must simply "believe" in the finished work of Jesus. They don’t have to lift a finger, He's done it all. Most dig in their heels and refuse simple agreement with what God has accomplished through his Son. They think it foolishness.

    Their angry attempts to drag us believers into Hell/The Lake of Fire with them are, uhhh, doomed to failure.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    An eye for an eye; a tooth for a tooth?

    Matthew 5:38-39 NIV
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
     
  9. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Anyone who isn't a Jew is a gentile. All means all.
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    1 John 2:2
    He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
     
  11. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I accept God to be Righteous and Holy, and all His Judgments are done in Truth.
    Matthew 18:17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear
    the church, let him be to you like a pagan and a tax collector.

    Sometimes mercy is hard!
    1 Corinthians 5:5
    deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit
    may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    Psalm 33:
    4 For the Word of the Lord is right,
    And all His work is done in truth.
    5 He loves righteousness and justice;
    The earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.
     
  12. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    The video I posted titled the orthodox view of salvation, is the two chairs. Take another look

     
  13. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Triangulating THE WAY out of the void! Supporter

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    ... sounds like Greek to me.
     
  14. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Very disingenuous to use the OT to argue against the New Testament scriptures that I quoted to
    support Judgment by measure, including the words of Christ in Matthew 7. You aren't fooling
    anyone. Respond to the post and the Word of God that supports, don't deflect. Do you
    honestly think that I am unfamiliar with the sermon on the mount! That my friend is discipleship training and something we must adhere to as believers. What do you think of a believer who
    does not follow this teaching? Now you are making my point. Once again, you are responding by
    rote, and digging deeper in to an irreconcilable position. Be slow to speak.
     
  15. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OIC now, I watched the "borrowed" version. My bad. Thanks, the post does offer the
    disclaimer that he was preaching from another's message. Now I am caught up. :)
     
  16. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Again, the message of reconciliation is made to all. The sacrifice is universal. The acceptance of
    the message and repentance it is meant to inspire is not unfortunately.
     
  17. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    The version you watched was by a PhD theologian who was mentored by Archbishop Lazar Puhalo.
     
  18. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter! It wasn't his PLAN and INTENT that they go there. His plan and INTENT was that NONE should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. 2 Pt 3:9 If many are choosing not to they are going against HIS PLAN. You need to focus on just what his plan, desire and INTENT was and not be casting aspersions upon the Creator.
     
  19. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Stating the obvious now? The point, if I must restate, is that Paul was using pas=all, to present
    the argument that Messiah was for all nations, not just Jews, as had been clearly stated by
    Isaiah and others. You are translating the message of reconciliation to salvation. Someone either
    accepts the message and enters into a living relationship with the Lord by Faith, or rejects and
    forfeits the Gift of Eternal Life.
     
  20. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Triangulating THE WAY out of the void! Supporter

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    I don't know what I'm supposed to be honing in on in post #9 precisely, but if Pavel is explaining why Universal Reconciliation isn't reflective of Biblical Theology, then I have some appreciation of what he has written.

    Is there some other point in post #9 that you thought Pavel was implying? If so, you may have to bring it to my attention more specfically.
     
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