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Featured The Bible: God's plan for the redemption of humankind? Or... ???

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Apr 7, 2021 at 7:19 AM.

  1. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Too much theology in presenting the Evangel. Amazing that he would mention the
    anointing as a point of humor.
    No it does not pit God against man, it pits man's carnal nature as enmity to God.
    Where did we get that idea? The Bible!

    Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the
    law of God, nor indeed can be.

    James 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is
    enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an
    enemy of God.


    I don't hold any of these errors in theology, so I can't sit and listen to this guy's teaching.
    Why do people preach errors? Is it to make their views seem more palatable?
    I know Psalm 22. check. Actually it was playing out before their eyes, He was not
    saying go read it. Witness!
    Preach the Gospel, not theology, and the history of errors.

    John 3:15 Whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

    Sorry man, I have listened to way too many sermons like this, I don't need
    the theater. I know the scriptures, I don't need C. S. Lewis. I am out.
     
  2. Jake Arsenal

    Jake Arsenal Member

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    Yes, I did say
    I then proceeded to challenge your presupposition with around 100 references to clear doctrine. The first commandment(Exodus 20) begins with a very important statement, "I AM the Lord your God"
    Those questions are not taboo. The problem is your presupposition in the OP(as quoted below and in my previous responses).

    Your argument rests on this presupposition which you have not supported with any evidence. You simply state your assumption as fact.

    Please provide scripture which supports the idea that individuals get to define what scripture is based on their own presuppositions(their view of the final judgement).
     
  3. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Triangulating THE WAY out of the void! Supporter

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    What do I think of post #12? On a generic level, I'd say I agree with you, Clare.

    How's that for simple? ;)
     
  4. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Adoption is to be a child of God, and call Him Abba. Our Father.
    Shocked that you are so ill-informed on the teaching of inheritance also.
    Was this the best you could come up with in reply to my post?
    A ridiculous statement like that is a perfect place to end a conversation.
     
  5. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Are you just going to talk in these Strawman caricatures or actually consider alternative points of view?
     
  6. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Victims? The guilty, yes. Victims? No.

    Also, you evaded my point.
     
  7. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Why are you asking?

    Who designed a way to avoid it?
     
  8. Llewelyn Stevenson

    Llewelyn Stevenson Well-Known Member

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    The Bible actually reveals neither for neither is the plan of God.

    God never said he would redeem humankind, he said he would redeem those who believed, and this faith existed even in the days of The Law because it was to those who were under The Law that he said, "The just shall live by faith."

    Those who cry "faith alone", debunking the Old Testament actually quote it when they say, "The just shall live by faith."

    Therefore, by their own definition, it can be said that they live by The Law and are saved by it.

    It was always God's plan to offer redemption to those who would believe and receive it through Jesus Christ, yet it was abundantly clear not all would receive it. The Bible clearly says not all will be saved and, also, that not all are condemned.

    Humankind died when Adam and Eve sinned. There is no future plan of genocide, only of salvation; but that does not mean those who believe not will not be judged. In fact they are judged of themselves already because they will not believe.

    The true gospel says, there is no hope. You are already prepared for the fire, not by God, but by Satan who deceives the whole world. It is he who prepared mankind for the fire. That's Satan's plan, not God's.

    Notice that hell and the fire are Satan's dwelling, not God's.

    Yet the true gospel says, there is hope if you will believe and, by grace, there is forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ.

    Jesus'parable, which is said to be the parable by which all others can be understood makes this clear.

    at 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
    Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
    Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
    Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
    Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
    Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
    Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

    Notice that the man sowed wheat, not wheat and tares. This is why I do not believe predestination as most say Calvin taught it.

    It was his enemy who sowed the tares, in secret, even as Satan did when he tempted Eve. Sin is not God's doing.

    Yet God's plan, even as this man, is to save the wheat from among the tares.

    The tares suffer what tares always suffer, they are burned because they have no value to the farmer and were not his handiwork.

    However the wheat is valued even as God values those that are his.

    The choice you make reveals what you are, whether wheat or tare. Those who do not believe are tares and are ready to be burned.

    All who repent and believe will be saved. This is the true Gospel for they reveal that they are wheat and that they are the planting of the Lord.

    Judgment is not merely coming, it is already upon the world because they will not believe in Jesus whom he sent but it is not God's plan.

    God did not plan for man to sin but, when he did, he knew what must be done to save those who are his.

    Do you understand the true gospel? Believe in it and be saved out of the world, which is heading for destruction For it is destroyed already, by sin.
     
  9. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    Since we have to consider every scripture on a topic, instead of just the ones we like, we find that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, however His atonement is only applied to those who believe in Jesus, and repent of their sins.

    And we are also told by Jesus that those who don’t believe, are condemned, in John 3.

    There’s no way to arrive at universalism, except by picking and choosing scripture.
     
  10. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    Spirits can’t be destroyed.

    Angels are spirit beings that can’t be annihilated anymore than God, who is an eternal spirit, can be destroyed.

    And humans were made in God’s image, and since at creation God had no physical body, when He made us in His image, that cant mean physical bodies - instead, we are made eternal spirits, in His image, and live in a temporal home called our body.

    Thus annihilationism is impossible, because our bodies can be destroyed, but not our spirit - and this is why damned angels and humans will spend eternity apart from God, and not be destroyed and cease to exist.
     
  11. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    Mark 9:48 doesn't say anything about pain, why are you making stuff up? As far as the fire goes, in next verse (Mark 9:49) Jesus says "Everyone will be salted with fire." Does that mean everyone is going to be in pain?

    Then again pain isn't always as bad thing. As they say no pain, no gain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 3:41 AM
  12. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    Actually according to Jesus spirits can be destroyed: Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28
     
  13. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    God didn't make a plan for FOR people to go to Hell in that he wanted them to. His plan was to create a family and has given everyone the choice to be in it.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    The Bible is still the best source. But it helps to have someone to guide you to the right parts.

    The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
    Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

    Christ Triumphant, by Thomas Allin
    Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin
     
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  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Last time I checked, every argument rests on a presupposition. You have yours and I have mine.

    The topic is about how a person's view of the final judgment defines their view of what the Bible is about. Or more importantly, the way it DOESN'T align with what they claim the Bible is about.
     
  17. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I thought you said already goodbye? See you soon.

    Be insulted if you like. This is supposed to be a wake-up call.

    My quote below is what I hear Damnationists claiming in essence. It highlights the ridiculousness of their claims. Isn't that what you are claiming? What would happen to us if not for Jesus death on our behalf?

    Saint Steven said:
    So, Jesus died to save us from God?
     
  18. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    How is that a strawman? Isn't that basically what you told us? God can do whatever he wants, there's no way we can stop him. How is that not the same as a playground bully?

    Saint Steven said:
    Kind of like the playground bully of the universe? That's flattering. (slanderous)
     
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    What about the countless billions that have never so much as heard the name of Jesus? They aren't victims? You call them guilty? You call this justice?
     
  20. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Who's avoiding now?
    A way to avoid it? Why create it in the first place if it is to be avoided at all cost?

    If what you are claiming about God is true, no human in history has created such a diabolical horror as what you claim God is up to. That humans would be tormented in fire for all eternity with no hope of escape. Unable to even die in the flames. To just go on burning forever.

    How will you be able to enjoy heaven knowing that is going on in the basement? One wrong move and you could end up there as well. Right? Since the playground bully can't be stopped.

    Saint Steven said:
    Who designed hell?
     
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