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The Bible: God's plan for the redemption of humankind? Or... ???

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I typed up the key points. If that helps.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

    All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

    Matthew 13:22
    The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

    Romans 12:2
    Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

    1 Corinthians 1:20
    Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

    1 Corinthians 2:8
    None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    Ephesians 2:2
    in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

    Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

    Luke 18:29-30
    “Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
     
  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Declare away!

    Reminder: Be sure to send God the memo.
     
  3. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    You wish.
     
  4. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    You mean you don't wish?
     
  5. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    Wishing isn't scriptural.
     
  6. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    You win!

    Good night.
     
  7. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    Seek to discuss, rather than to win.
     
  8. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    Play at FULL VOLUME!

     
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  9. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    The Bible explains something that we should all begin to sense on our own, that there’s something wrong with humanity in a most basic way. And then it gives us the answer to the problem, that man must be reconciled and enter communion with God. Then justice, order, harmony-and happiness-would reign in creation.
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Will we ever measure up? Not likely.

    From my perspective, salvation/reconcilliation isn't something we do, it is something God did and is doing.

    All too often we humans look at things to see what is wrong. (even with ourselves) Seldom do we look to see what is right. Why?

    Most imagine that when God looks at us he is mostly disgusted by what is wrong with us. As if we were a worthless and wretched lot.

    But Jesus informs us that God is our heavenly Father. I believe that Abba's lap is always open for us to sit. He longs for a relationship with us.

    And like our own children, there we sit with a runny nose and full diaper. A needy lot.

    Romans 8:15 NIV
    The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  11. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Hmm, God isn’t pleased with sin, which is a very ugly thing that caused Jesus to come and do what He did. But what He did proves that He loves us in spite of our sin. As creation, itself, becomes convicted of that sin, that ugliness, then it can turn to that love of His and begin to reflect it back itself. Yes, we first need to know that something’s wrong, to develop a hunger and thirst for something right in a relatively lost and godless world, apart from Him.

    But, yes, we certainly don’t need to get stuck in some self-deprecating place, as some seem to enjoy, of maintaining that everything including ourselves is bad and dark. Jesus came to raise us up, not keep us down.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  12. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Not sure how you can believe Jesus is salvation incarnate and believe most ppl don't get saved. How does that work? It's a definitional and basic rational problem, a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron like military intelligence, no? Let alone a faith issue.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Right. I believe he actually likes us.

    Some readers bristle when I say that. But I want to emphasize that there is more to God's affections for us than the obligatory "love" that we model toward one another in the church, as if it is actual love.

    We tolerate each other and call it love. But we hang out with those we actually like. See the difference? To like someone is actually a cut above love if you look at it that way.
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    But where did sin come from? Did we humans invent it? Who put that tree in the middle of the garden where we couldn't avoid it? What was the idea there?

    Surprisingly, humankind had to be tricked into the transgression. And did we really understand what the consequences would be? What did the threat of death mean before there was death on the planet?

    I don't mean to be offensive with my questions, but these are the things we should be discussing. IMHO
     
  15. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    I guess, if you look at it that way. Unless they really do love...:)
     
  16. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    I can't show you one verse that states point-blank 'Everyone will live forever', but it seems to me the most elementary deduction to make from (a) Everyone is condemned to death (b) Jesus comes to save everyone (c) God promises (swears an oath!) that everyone will be saved, because He loves the world with a passion that will never quit.

    The assumption we need to make, the leap of faith, if you will, is that God's word is trustworthy and true, and Jesus' mission is a success. Now for me as a Christian, that's a given. Call it hope, faith, trust or conviction, I don't get how it can be such a stumbling block and rock of offence to so many - but the Bible explains the reasons for that.

    So what am I missing? Some prophetic rhetoric about everlasting destruction and eternal torment to amplify up to an overriding theology? Salvation has the last word.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  17. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Either way, when I began to understand that there was something basically off the mark with this world, then the Christian message began to make sense.
     
  18. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    How about answering the question. The vast majority of Christiandom doesn't buy into UR. Do they all have a fake faith?
     
  19. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    BLASPHEMY!
     
  20. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Before Christ, what did everyone "buy into"? The majority opinion isn't always the best indicator.
     
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