The Bible: God's plan for the redemption of humankind? Or... ???

[renniks]

NotCalvinism. In Calvinism, sin is the result of the exercise of Free Will.

There's no free will in Calvinism. Only the illusion of freedom.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Catch 22

A threat used by the Roman Empire to shut people up.

 

[Ceallaigh]

We are Israel. That's not about the nation.

That's one interpretation. But the keyword is "all".

 

[renniks]

That's one interpretation. But the keyword is "all".

All children of the promise equals all believers.

 

[Jipsah]

No one is mocking God here. Cool it with that jazz.

You get to say stuff like that when you're righteouser than most folks.

 

[Ceallaigh]

.

 

[Jipsah]

The human body is not immortal.

... she said, in a failed attempt to evade the point made. <Laugh> But let's make it explicit, then. "As in Adam, all die". "For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity." "For we will surely die and are like water spilled on the ground which cannot be gathered up again." "What man can live and not see death?" "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned"

There are others, of course, but those will do to go on with.

Then all that remains is to demonstrate it from Scripture. Scripture is the authority for God's truth.

Just so. So please be kind enough to show me where Scripture states that everyone will live forever, either in eternal bliss or eternal torment. If you cannot, then I must assume that no such Scripture exists, and my contention stands.

 

[Clare73]

... she said, in a failed attempt to evade the point made. <Laugh> But let's make it explicit, then. "As in Adam, all die". "For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity." "For we will surely die and are like water spilled on the ground which cannot be gathered up again." "What man can live and not see death?" "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned"

There are others, of course, but those will do to go on with.

Just so. So please be kind enough to show me where Scripture states that everyone will live forever, either in eternal bliss or eternal torment. If you cannot, then I must assume that no such Scripture exists, and my contention stands.

When you show me where Scriptures states that "God is sovereign" or that "God is three in one."

Are you not familiar with Jesus' resurrection body or the second death?

 

[Jipsah]

What about Helios?

Different pantheon.

 

[Jipsah]

When you show me where Scriptures states that "God is sovereign."

That would roughly be all of them. Try again.

Are you not familiar with Jesus' resurrection body or the second death?

Yes, which again does nothing to address the the question: where is the Scripture that says that everyone lives forever? Your damnationist doctrine depends on it being there, so please be good enough to cite it.

 

[Ceallaigh]

All children of the promise equals all believers.

How did you work that out?

 

[Ceallaigh]

When you show me where Scriptures states that "God is sovereign" or that "God is three in one."

Are you not familiar with Jesus' resurrection body or the second death?

*gasp* you deflected from answering the question. I'm shocked

 

[Jipsah]

Then all that remains is to demonstrate from Scripture the error in the following presentation of the Scriptures

But first, you need to demonstrate that everyone, saint or sinner, lives forever one way or another, either in bliss or otherwise. Scripture explicitly states that all die. St. Paul says that the ages of sin is death., but that the gift of God is eternal life. Damnationist doctrine requires that everyone has eternal life, intrinsically. and that everyone will continue to live, either in Heaven or in hell. So where is this Scripture that declares that everyone lives forever?

 

[Jipsah]

Good grief! . . .You guys need to write your own Bible, and leave ours alone.

Aha! So y'all have your own bible! That explains where a lot of these notions come from. But fair play, can you cite anything in your bible that states that all human beings live forever for good or ill? If not, I'm ready to declare damnationism sunk without a trace.

 

[renniks]

How did you work that out?

From Romans.
" it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring."

23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.

Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[Saint Steven]

I've seen a lot of punny names, but that one's the best.

There was a sign at a shopping mall about available space for a retail business. The contact info was a phone number and the name Lisa Store. - lol

 

[Clare73]

That would roughly be all of them.

Then surely you can give the "address" of at least one where "God is sovereign" is stated.

Yes, which again does nothing to address the the question: where is the Scripture that says that everyone lives forever?

Should I wait until you provide the Scripture that says "God is sovereign"?

Your damnationist doctrine depends on it being there, so please be good enough to cite it.

I'm thinking I'll operate by your rules--present the Scripture which states "God is sovereign."

 

[Clare73]

*gasp* you deflected from answering the question. I'm shocked

You're still "young and tender". . .

 

[Saint Steven]

Did you seen the video?

I typed up the key points. If that helps. cc: @Lazarus Short

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

 

[Clare73]

But first, you need to demonstrate that everyone, saint or sinner, lives forever one way or another, either in bliss or otherwise. Scripture explicitly states that all die. St. Paul says that the ages of sin is death., but that the gift of God is eternal life. Damnationist doctrine requires that everyone has eternal life, intrinsically. and that everyone will continue to live, either in Heaven or in hell. So where is this Scripture that declares that everyone lives forever?

It's two down from Bible 11:19, between "God is sovereign" and "God is three in one."

I'm thinkin' I like your rules.