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The Bible: God's plan for the redemption of humankind? Or... ???

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    Someone in another thread cited references to gehenna being considered a place of torment to first century Jews as taught by the Pharasees. Or something along those lines. If the rich man represents them, then Jesus would be putting them in the place they invented. Sort of rubbing their noses in it so to speak.

    However, the glitch in that theory is, in that story the word hell or hades appears, instead of gehenna.
    .
     
  2. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    Why couldn't they just write it in English? :rolleyes:
     
  3. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    I've been away for a few days. Among other things, I went through my book again, fixing mis-spellinx, typoes, spacing problems, and the like. The manuscript is looking good, and I'm shopping for a duplexing laser printer to print copies.

    I saw this morning that I am being quoted, and I am flattered!

    As I wrote, my notes becoming a long essay and that becoming a book, I set out to consider damnationism, annihilationism and reconciliationism as theological theories. While I wrote, I avoided any books on the subject, wanting to not be influenced. I found a few Scriptures that I could not wrap my mind around, and a few that seemed to support annihilatonsim - not enough, IMHO. I paid particular attention to verses which seemed to support damnationism. In them, I found a lot of bias and bad translating, well, in the KJV at least. In particular, I saw "judgement" rendered as "condemnation" and even as "damnation." I saw "sheol" rendered as "hell" whenever context allowed. "Hades" and "Gehenna" got the same treatment. "Tartarus" was rendered as "hell" too, but why hang theology on one instance of a word?

    It goes deeper - half of the words translated as "hell," "hades" and "tartarus," come to us from pagan Greek mythology. I see a problem there of theological baggage.

    In the end, after deconstructing many verses using "hell" without any good reason I could see, and failing to find that God had ever created the place, or ever threatened to send anyone there and no deaths recorded in the Scriptures were paired with a destiny in Hell, I found that the whole concept went "poof." Hell is a 404, folks. That is my report after months of intense study...which involved much more than I stated here.
     
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  4. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    I look forward to reading your finished work.

    I pointed out somewhere in this thread that it seemed ironic to me that I've heard the phrase "the really of hell" when hell is a mythological place. It's like calling Heaven Olympus or Valhalla.
     
  5. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    That's it, Jesus is always 'flipping' the Pharisees, as ye judge so shall ye be judged. So I've always read the Rich Man story as Jesus turning the tables and saying 'What if it's you?' or 'How will you escape the judgment of hell?' This is really the main criticism of the Jews that Jesus pays out on - God doesn't need you arrogant twits, He can raise up men from stones-type thing.

    The infernalist sees the Bible as a million moving parts, all surprising and many opaque and fearful (what's the unforgivable sin? Have I committed it??). But the themes are repetitive, the patterns recur, they types and shadows are cohesive and coherent. It's really not rocket surgery, just ppl refuse to let the Spirit speak.
     
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  6. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    I knew an old IT support guy who said they'd use 'Code 28' to denote user error (usually for a user's 'dumb' mistake). 'Yes madam, I believe it's a code 28'. Hell could also be one of those.
     
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  7. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Fairly late in my research, I tracked Hell down to its pagan roots. The pagan Norse believed in a goddess/ogress they called "Hel." Now if you did NOT rate going to Valhalla, you spent your afterlife in Helheim, or "House of Hel." In the Anglo-Saxon epic "Beowulf," we find "hel," "hell" and "helle." In the 1611 KJV, we find "hel" twice, but that may just be one of the typos the 1611 was famous for...
     
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  8. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    What about Helios?
     
  9. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    I did not find a connection there...but there may be one.
     
  10. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    The enemy has always been big on Helios, sun-worship, the false light etc etc. Sometimes even interchanged with Apollyon. Maybe just coincidence that the 'hel' particle turns up there. Those Hellenists.
     
  11. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    I learned about her in that Thor movie. Not a very nice person.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    I looked up that move, but could not find "Hel" in the list of characters.
     
  13. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    Hela. It would have sounded strange if they called her Hel.
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Right. And the last verse in the chapter is mind-blowing. (prophetic)

    Luke 16:31 NIV
    “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
     
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  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Maybe it's Helen? Helen Back. - lol
     
  16. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    I've seen a lot of punny names, but that one's the best.
     
  17. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    At the end of the day, Damnationism boils down to a Halloween fixation. - lol
     
  18. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    If it's the same place, what difference does it make?
     
  19. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Jesus never said anything like that.
     
  20. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Salt, being an agent which retards corruption, in the context of Mark 9:43-49 is referring to the suffering of dealing radically with one's sin now (cut it off, pluck it out) to retard the spiritual corruption of sin and avoid the fire of v.48.
    Again, imagery of cleansing from spiritual defilement/corruption.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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