• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Featured The Bible: God's plan for the redemption of humankind? Or... ???

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Apr 7, 2021 at 7:19 AM.

  1. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +3,411
    Canada
    Baptist
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Mark 9:49
    49 "For everyone will be salted with fire.


    A difficult verse, no doubt. And so, it has been the source of much speculation and theorizing. I recall Paul's comments in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and the words of the prophet in Malachi 3:2, as you have. The two sections of Scripture shed some useful light, I think, on what Jesus was saying. It also helps to know something of the Levitical practices concerning sacrifices. The JFB Bible Commentary explains:

    "The reference to salting the sacrifice is of course to that maxim of the Levitical law, that every acceptable sacrifice must be sprinkled with salt, to express symbolically its soundness, sweetness, wholesomeness, acceptability. But as it had to be roasted first, we have here the further idea of a salting with fire. In this case, "every sacrifice," in the next clause, will mean, "Every one who would be found an acceptable offering to God"; and thus the whole verse may perhaps be paraphrased as follows: "Every disciple of Mine shall have a fiery trial to undergo, and everyone who would be found an odor of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable and well-pleasing to God, must have such a salting, like the Levitical sacrifices."
    (A Commentary: Critical, Experimental, and Practical on the Old and New Testaments - Jamieson, Fawcett and Brown).
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  2. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

    +2,231
    Christian
    Married
    Well, I don't like your list.
    I think it assumes things about people that believe in hell that aren't correct.
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +6,550
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    That's a great point. And I think it captures the essence of what God is about.

    Why would the story of humankind end anywhere but there? That God would wipe away every tear. Make everything right. Return to the beginning. Full circle.

    I suppose I'll be accused of emotionalism by those who want the most violent end to all things. A crash and burn for the whole mess. (sigh)
     
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +6,550
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    What should we assume about people that believe in hell? (they don't know any better? - LOL)
     
  5. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

    +6,544
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    Agreed. That would be the most beautiful consummation. I don't care what people call me, lol. ;)
     
  6. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

    +595
    Christian
    Married
    Except Revelation says those in the lake have continued consciousness, as they have no rest DAY OR NIGHT and they are tormented FOREVER.
     
  7. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

    +1,624
    Christian
    Married
    The fact is there is a place of conscious punishment you only have to read the story of Lazarus and the beggar to know that.

    The real question is did God "plan", to destroy the vast majority of people in hell. Firstly the answer is "no", God did not know how people would react to Him. As we see in Genisis:

    Gen 6:5-6 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

    God has revealed His nature to us through His Son, one of redemption, and of mercy. Yet it is a mercy that must be received. Unfortunately, many refuse His redemptive act:

    John 3:19-20 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    As for numbers of people who perish, we don't really know, but the bible does say:

    Mat 7:12-14 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    We see firstly in Mat 7:12 God's nature: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

    Then we see that most reject this act, or nature. However because the nature of God is so good, it is often hard to reconcile the "few" find it. I would hope this is not a statistical statement, of the ones inheriting life. But it seems to be. If it is that, then we need to know it is not a lack of mercy on God's part, but a lack of love on man's. God can not do more than the cross. We just need to be grateful and thankful that we have the sight to see His redemption.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +6,550
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Hmm... the real question seems to be about God's omniscience. - lol
    He knows everything, right?
     
  9. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

    +247
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    I'm going with the "OR" (in the title) ... The Bible is about proving God is Holy and right. The redemption of mankind is only a part of the story and men are not the focus of scripture.
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +6,550
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    That would equate to the vast majority being lost. Countless billions.

    There is also the issue of "the elect" and predestination. Meaning that those who were NOT predestined "to life" were predestined to eternal conscious torment.
     
  11. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +6,550
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Right. Blame the victims.
     
  12. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +867
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    "Victims" of God. . .no wonder you don't understand Scripture.

    You haven't figured out that God is the center of the Universe, not man.
     
  13. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

    +869
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    How can they be conscious day and night, when Revelation says there will be no more day and night?
     
  14. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,668
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    The way I see it, it is simply a matter of understanding the time duration.
     
  15. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

    +869
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I thought that's what the forever part was for. It's a contradiction in letteral terms. But not so much in figurative terms.
     
  16. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

    +869
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    It doesn't really assume it, that's what it's actually saying.
     
  17. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +6,550
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Humankind is not the focus of scripture? Are you serious?
     
  18. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

    +247
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    Yes I'm serious. God is the focus of scripture, who He is, what He is doing and will do. You won't know all there is to know about the Lord by fixing your eyes upon men.
     
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +6,550
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Well, try fixing your eyes on God sometime. (He's invisible - lol)
     
  20. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

    +2,231
    Christian
    Married
    There you go again! :)
    We should assume they believe what God's word says.
     
Loading...