The benefits of socialism

SkyWriting

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Economies rated “free” or “mostly free” enjoy incomes that are more than five times higher than the incomes of “repressed economies” such as those of North Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba.

Five times better standard of living? No.
 
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stevevw

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Socialism is not communism. Co-op ownership and control of goods and services is the definition of socialism.
But Co-op ownership is not uniquely a socialist ideal It’s a common way for people to start up grass roots community development. This is especially the case with today’s social media. Business are getting their customers involved, sharing and exchanging ideas, goods and services.

AS an example our local community centre uses co-ops and partnerships with local business and people. They are able to create ventures like a community garden and repair cafes run by locals and supported by local business where everyone shares a skill, knowledge, or resource.

In today’s economic climate there is a mixture of ideas and none or specifically socialist or capitalist. There is basically a freedom be enterprising and creative with certain limits such as government regulations which would happen in any system.

But I think pure socialism does have a risk of a small group becoming powerful and dictating terms. As Margret Thatcher said socialism uses other people’s money and sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.

So where do you get the money from without private enterprise generating that wealth. Without that revenue source the government would become restrictive in what people can do and have to ensure the system doesn’t collapse due to lack of capital.

It’s not communism but there is a degree of control of people and resources because the government needs to ensure enough money is there for basic needs. As populations grow the need becomes greater but the revenue source doesn’t. So the temptation is there to be more controlling in other ways to generate savings.

I think the records show that socialist systems run out of money and collapse. Unless a degree of capitalism is included there is no way for money to be generated or for proper management. History shows that government owned and run utilities and other operations that supplied jobs and benefits for people end up becoming a massive cost liability. That’s why they were privatised.
 
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Albion

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But Co-op ownership is not uniquely a socialist ideal It’s a common way for people to start up grass roots community development. This is especially the case with today’s social media. Business are getting their customers involved, sharing and exchanging ideas, goods and services.

Yes. AND these organizations operate on a voluntary basis. No one is required to join. That is the opposite of the Socialist model. Socialism is a form of government, for one thing. It also exists in order to re-distribute the wealth, which is not the purpose of co-ops. And that redistribution is done by a Socialist government by the use of force. That also is different.

AS an example our local community centre uses co-ops and partnerships with local business and people. They are able to create ventures like a community garden and repair cafes run by locals and supported by local business where everyone shares a skill, knowledge, or resource.
 
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SkyWriting

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Yes. AND these organizations operate on a voluntary basis. No one is required to join. That is the opposite of the Socialist model. Socialism is a form of government, for one thing. It also exists in order to re-distribute the wealth, which is not the purpose of co-ops. And that redistribution is done by a Socialist government by the use of force. That also is different.
Socalim doesn't work that way in America, so it's not even an issue.
In America, it's blended with democracy. Stick to practical examples.
 
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SkyWriting

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SkyWriting

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Obviously, you do. However, that isn't what you and I were discussing. I don't really care if you like the stereotype you hold about Socialism (or North Korea in particular). It's what Socialism actually is that you and I have fundamentally disagreed about.

And being in Milwaukee, I'm the expert where the rubber meets the road.

Milwaukee Socialism: The Emil Seidel Era | UWM Libraries
Socialism had a big influence on Milwaukee politics
Milwaukee's Long and Vibrant History of Socialism
 
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SkyWriting

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Being in Milwaukee makes one an expert on Socialism is about the most hilarious thing I've read here in a long time.

If I spent 2 years in prison, I'd claim to be an expert on that.
I've lived here 40 years and have researched the subject many times.
We've also have a socialist school program for 25 years now and running.
The residents actually dialogue on the topic.
PBS Documentary Tells The Story Of Milwaukee's 3 Socialist Mayors

Milwaukee Socialists joined with the labor movement to form a new political party called the Social-Democrats in 1897. Socialists won major elections in Milwaukee in 1910. Milwaukee became the first Socialist city in the United States. Emile Seidel was elected mayor of Milwaukee to become the nation's first Socialist mayor. The party also won seats on the city council and the county board. Most importantly, Victor Berger went to Washington as the first Socialist Congressman.
 
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Albion

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If I spent 2 years in prison, I'd claim to be an expert on that.
I've lived here 40 years and have researched the subject many times.
We've also have a socialist school program for 25 years now and running.
The residents actually dialogue on the topic.
PBS Documentary Tells The Story Of Milwaukee's 3 Socialist Mayors
But the idea that living in Milwaukee means that you've lived in a Socialist society is laughable.

When Milwaukee secedes from the Union like that enclave in Seattle called CHUM or CHAZ (or whatever it was) that Antifa and BLM set up last summer, and you live there for a few years....

then please get back to us and show us how it was really a paradise on Earth like Socialists societies are supposed to be.
 
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