the beast that was, and is not, and yet is...

[Revealing Times]

As to the beast's lineage... though the account I give of Alexander was lengthy... it all but barely scratched the surface of what is behind the Greek origins. Fascinating stuff that would take a series of documentaries just to cover that aspect. Since the lineage bleeds down into the royal houses of Europe, both east and west... I would not speculate at this point... whether he is a Turk, a Stewart or a Merovingian makes little difference to me for now.

The other post messed up with a double post and my LINK to a Thread I created on this site got scrubbed somehow. Below is a link to the thread I made that explains every King of Daniel chapter 11 and how each King came to power etc. etc. and all of the Syrian Wars via the Kings of the North vs. the Kings of the South are also explained in detail. Here is a lot of info, with NO WORK NEEDED !!

Daniel 11 & 12 historically explained step by step.

 

[Revealing Times]

Was Jesus a man? And yet his Father was God. Even so Apollyon is a man whose father is Satan.

Apollyon is a Demon, no man brother.

Isa 14
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

The King of Babylon, the Assyrian, the morning star. This is the beast.

Look on the back of a dollar bill and you will see a pyramid with the Eye of Horus. Egyptian Horus is the Babylonian Tammuz. Tammuz is said to be the reincarnated Nimrod.

Tammuz is the false savior. He is also the Egyptian Horus, the Norse or Scandinavian Thor, the Greek Apollo etc. etc. etc. etc.

This was to a guy who was claiming the RCC was the Harlot or Mystery Babylon, so I pointed out what Mystery Babylon really was and how it had to go under Ground thus the "MYSTERY TITLE" which the Angel in Rev. 17:7-18 explained somewhat unto us. Thus any references or pronouns in the text are of course not pointed towards you, this post is probably over a year old IMHO. (We seem to mostly agree here....per who they are, but not on who Apollyon is it seems.)

The Origins of the Mystery/Babylon Religion.

Mystery - Babylon EXPLAINED as per the Religious side. Why would ANYONE follow a Church hierarchy that missed the Rapture? It's not happening brother. HINT: here is a little secret tidbit, I am not saying the RCC hierarchy can't be a part of the Harlot, as can other churches but I am saying the RCC is not THE HARLOT.

The Harlot has to stretch from the beginning of mankind till the end. The clues mandate this, she has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her hands. The RCC was not even around when all of the Saints were killed. The Harlot is Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Witchcraft, Voodoo, (Baal, Bel, Belios, Zeus and Jupiter are all the SAME God with a little different name hence the Throne of Satan was the Temple to Zeus in Pergamum). All of the Roman gods, all of the Babylonian gods and demi-gods, all of the Egyptian gods are all the same.

The Mystery Religion of Ancient Babylon or Mesopotamia began post flood, and it is the beginning of paganism, all mankind had just been destroyed. This "Mystery Religion" has been told in many different stories via many religions, it consists of a lot of names of many different gods, but they are in affect all actually the same gods but just different cultures, different times, all the same stories and the explanation to what Mystery Babylon is in its simplest form is that it is simply polytheism and or paganism: SEE BELOW:

Polytheism is the belief in MANY GODS: The true knowledge or the goals of these gods were only given to the few. The high priests and priestess who passed down the religion.They required a sacrifice to the gods and they were the only ones that could commune with the gods. They held the secret knowledge which gave them power over the ones who did not have the knowledge. Well you get the point.

In Polytheism it's always the same structure in most cultures, one man is god, one virgin woman who was the mother of god, and a son of the mother who was impregnated from the male god.

Paganism = Father god, Mother god and the Son of god.

Paganism came from the line of Ham via Cush see Genesis ch. 10. He created the rebellion against the real God via the Tower of Babel. They wanted to challenge the power of God. So God just confused their languages and put a stop to this nonsense, but Nimrod arose, he was a Mighty hunter and became leader of the Assyrian/Babylonian Empire. Nimrod began these Mystery Religions, but they spread all around the World hence MYSTERY BABYLON is world wide by the time the Angel explains it to us in Revelation chapter 17. Not quite as deep as I am going to explain it here, but nevertheless, we should be able to understand the Angel.

Nimrod = sun god
Semiramis = moon goddess, the mother and wife of Nimrod
Tammuz = the son of god.

The Ancient Babylonian god Nebo = Nabu = Nimrod = Ba'al this is the BIRTH of the Occult. It all leads back to Nimrod, and it even goes back further to Cain in reality. The MARK OF CAIN !!

So we have Nimrod the sun god, Semiramis the moon goddess and Tammuz the son of god. Nimrod communicated with the Spirit World of course. They performed human sacrifices, he was seen as god, he challenged Gods authority. Now Shem, abhorred or hated these abominations and he killed Nimrod, cut him up in pieces and sent him to all the cities Nimrod ruled over to show that he was NOT GOD!! He wanted the people to stop doing what they were doing and to start worshiping and obeying God again. This threw a kink in Satan's plans. BUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT ?


Semiramis happened !! The Mother of Harlots. She was the wife of Cush and the mother of Nimrod, she claimed to be divinely born. She married Nimrod after Cush lost power, her own son. After Nimrod was killed she became pregnant and told everyone it was the "Spirit of Nimrod" that impregnated her. (LOL, LOL). She claimed she was having a Miraculous or "Virgin Birth" from the spirit of Nimrod.

Her son was going to be the Savior to defeat the serpent when in reality they were worshiping the serpent. She managed to get them to believe that Nimrod ascended to the sun, and she conceived via the sun rays. He was to now be worshiped as Ba'al, the Sun-god. She made herself a goddess and claimed that she was divinely created, she was in effect the moon-goddess. She had them believing she came from the moon in a giant moon egg.

The queen of Babylon aka Semiramis became known as the moon-goddess Ishtar. Tammuz was the Son of god or the Sun-god REBORN !! He was killed by a wild pig, Semiramis, now Ishtar stated that he ascended to the sun like his father and they now are a union. Semiramis/Ishtar continued on with her false religious worship and sacrifices, but because of Shem and their constant defeat by God they CHANGED TACTICS, what was once done out in the open would now be done IN SECRET. The Secret Societies so to speak. All of these dark practices would henceforth be done in the dark, it would become a MYSTERY, only completely revealed unto those that were WORTHY !! You know, the high priests and priestesses. Some say the Freemasons etc. etc.

So now you know what the MYSTERY RELIGION was/is. This is how it was created. But alas, this Mystery Religion spread amongst all the ancient empires of Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece and Rome, this is what Paganism is.

The stories may change, the name of the gods may change, but there are ALWAYS THREE CENTRAL FIGURES with a very specific structure.

The Father god who is the Sun-god.
The Mother god who is the Moon-goddess.
The Son of god who is the Sun-god REBORN.

Babylon had Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz.

Egypt had Ra, Isis and Horus.

Greece had Zeus, Artemis and Adonis

Rome had Jupiter, Diana and Apollo.

The Nordic's had Odin, Joro and Thor.

The Hindus had Vishnu, Chandra and Krishna

Satan seeks to confuse and deceive of course. He knew the SEED would bruise his heel (Die and be Resurrected) and thus bruise the Serpent's head. So he knew there had to be a Virgin Birth and a death and resurrection to take away the sins of all mankind, so he set out to copy/imitate and deceive the masses with his MYSTERY RELIGION or with ALL FALSE RELIGION worldwide.

Now did the RCC crossover into some of these erroneous practices? I think they did, they treat Mary more akin to the moon-goddess hence the Madonna and the baby. But they did not introduced the bunny rabbits and eggs however, at least not in America, that seems to have arrived in America via a German tradition in the 1700's. German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania and transported their tradition of an egg-laying hare called “Osterhase” or “Oschter Haws.” Their children made nests in which this creature could lay its colored eggs. So I think it's more of a "European" thing, we in America took the MANY TRADITIONS of the many cultures who migrated here and kind of mixed them all into one bag, the bad and the good. But they did not all come from the RCC. More or less most of these practices are from IGNORANCE, not from people actually seeking to worship false gods, and with God, He looks at our hearts intent.

So whenever you see a male god and a female god at the head of the hierarchy and there is a "Virgin Birth" you know this is MYSTERY BABYLON , even if there are 100's of other gods, these three are always at the Head or at the Hierarchy of the MYSTERY BABYLON Religion. Have some of these traditions creeped into the RCC? Well, maybe, but the RCC is not the Great Harlot nor can it be.

The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGIONS of ALL TIME and it was Birthed by Nimrod and Semiramis in Babylon.

 

[Erik Nelson]

666 = Nero

beast = pagan Roman empire

was / isn't / will be = 64 AD great fire of Rome that almost destroyed the whole city under Nero = fatal wound healed because Nero rebuilt the city quickly

 

[Douggg]

I don't merely assume Satan enters into Judas... it says it clearly... Satan entered into Judas. At some point he departed, the task completed.

Jesus also rebuked Peter,
Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

As to the five that are fallen, Daniel says with all clarity that it is out of one of the generals the beast descends. I present these points up to the 6th king but do not follow up with the 7th king because it is futile and a waste of time to attempt to name which blue blood the antichrist will claim credentials. I laid enough down to show he can claim any number of royal houses in Europe. To track down which one is pointless and not important to me. Hence, I leave that for genealogists to fumble with.

You are reaching a conclusion, but it is not what the text actually says. The four notable ones - are four kingdoms, it says in Daniel 8:22, not four generals, or kings. What it is actually indicating is the little horn person wiil head south and east from the direction of one of those four kingdoms, becoming great in doing do.

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Anti is a prefix meaning instead of and against. Christ pertains to the messiah. And is the promised great King of Israel, descended from David to lead Israel and the world into the age of peace and safety.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Mark 5:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

The point being is that the Jews for a short time will embrace the little horn person, when he heads south and east toward Israel, to think he is their messiah, and he is anointed the King of Israel. But he is someone God did not send to be their king. That's what makes the person the Antichrist.

The problem is though, if limited to only that understanding, is that most of the prophecies, especially in Revelation, are about the person functioning as the king of the Roman Empire, and of the people who destroyed the temple and city.

He will be the seventh and eighth king of the Roman Empire, the fourth kingdom - plus for a short period of about 3 years in between perceived to be by the Jews as their messiah, anointed king of Israel (but illegitimate), which puts him in the role of being the Antichrist, for that time period. Jesus being the rightful King of Israel.

Here is a chart I made of how all this will take place, tracing the person's path to becoming the beast in Revelation.

 

[brasyliam]

666 = Nero

beast = pagan Roman empire

was / isn't / will be = 64 AD great fire of Rome that almost destroyed the whole city under Nero = fatal wound healed because Nero rebuilt the city quickly

This interpretation has been around for centuries I know, but it always bewilders me because it passes over scripture as if it were not there. These things are future, not past. I believe this take on it originated with the early church "fathers" and the Roman church has passed it on ever since.

Many names have, and always will fit the 666 box.. but that man of sin has not arrived, at least we don't know of him as yet. But I respect your opinion. I just disagree with making the prophecies in Revelation and throughout the Bible as being fulfilled already. God goes to a lot of trouble to show us the future through these scriptures. Connecting the dots, speculating on them and trying to put it together is what eschatology is all about... the study of last things.

 

[Swan7]

Should also note when reading prophecies is that God uses some snippets of the past to tell us about the future. It's like the example with a bird having two wings to fly. Can't have one without the other for balance - and that is throughout the Bible.

 

[brasyliam]

Jesus also rebuked Peter,
Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


You are reaching a conclusion, but it is not what the text actually says. The four notable ones - are four kingdoms, it says in Daniel 8:22, not four generals, or kings. What it is actually indicating is the little horn person wiil head south and east from the direction of one of those four kingdoms, becoming great in doing do.

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Anti is a prefix meaning instead of and against. Christ pertains to the messiah. And is the promised great King of Israel, descended from David to lead Israel and the world into the age of peace and safety.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Mark 5:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

The point being is that the Jews for a short time will embrace the little horn person, when he heads south and east toward Israel, to think he is their messiah, and he is anointed the King of Israel. But he is someone God did not send to be their king. That's what makes the person the Antichrist.

The problem is though, if limited to only that understanding, is that most of the prophecies, especially in Revelation, are about the person functioning as the king of the Roman Empire, and of the people who destroyed the temple and city.

He will be the seventh and eighth king of the Roman Empire, the fourth kingdom - plus for a short period of about 3 years in between perceived to be by the Jews as their messiah, anointed king of Israel (but illegitimate), which puts him in the role of being the Antichrist, for that time period. Jesus being the rightful King of Israel.

Here is a chart I made of how all this will take place, tracing the person's path to becoming the beast in Revelation.

Hi Doug,
I'm not sure if I'm getting all that you are saying for sure... I still reiterate.. kings have kingdoms.. but I see the verses in Rev. 17 as God zeroing in on these 7 as kings...men.

Daniel 8 even shows that God is speaking of this little horn as the actions of a personal being, things he is will do, his actions as a king.. these are insights into the man.. not his kingdom, although it follows that his kingdom will do according to his will. But look at these insights featured... and this is only one of the many places in Daniel...

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

These are insights into the person of the beast. He has, and is out of a kingdom that was one of the divisions of Alexander's empire.

To comply with the accepted view... that we must see Rev. 17:10-11 as kingdoms. To make the math work, even if we make the Medes and the Persians into 2 separate nations, we must add 2 more empires... which is what the scholars did...they added Egypt and Assyria so we could reach Rome and everything add up. But when you see these 7 as kings... the math works perfectly. Alexander
Ptolemy
Seleucus
Lysimachus
Cassander
Titus
That Man of Sin
The Son of Perdition

In Dan. 11, when God is speaking of Antiochus Epiphanes and in a few words switches to the future antichrist, He means for us to run these things down and see that this timeline of kings, not kingdoms, will lead to the one who will come in his own name. I believe his kingdom will be a world empire with 10 kings.. though 3 of those 10 are absorbed by 1.

Hey Doug, I like your comments. Thanks.

 

[brasyliam]

Should also note when reading prophecies is that God uses some snippets of the past to tell us about the future. It's like the example with a bird having two wings to fly. Can't have one without the other for balance - and that is throughout the Bible.

Yes... I realize that I did not clarify that... the more history one has under their belt, the more one is better at deciphering prophesy, in that there is no doubt. Thanks for that Swan7.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Apollyon is a Demon, no man brother.

Jesus is a man and God with God as his father. Tammuz is a man and god with an angel as his father. I'm thinking at his mortal death we would have a demon.

The Origins of the Mystery/Babylon Religion.

Mystery - Babylon EXPLAINED as per the Religious side. Why would ANYONE follow a Church hierarchy that missed the Rapture? It's not happening brother. HINT: here is a little secret tidbit, I am not saying the RCC hierarchy can't be a part of the Harlot, as can other churches but I am saying the RCC is not THE HARLOT.

The RCC is Mystery Babylon that is a woman (Holy Mother Church) that sits on seven mountains and dresses in purple and scarlet. The reason the RCC is the harlot is because she gave up her 1st love. She is disguised as Christianity. Vatican City is destroyed and that is who is mourned over by the merchants of the earth.

The Harlot has to stretch from the beginning of mankind till the end. The clues mandate this, she has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her hands. The RCC was not even around when all of the Saints were killed.

The Saints were killed by the Roman empire. The place where many of the Saints were killed is actually located at the Vatican. Rome took over the church. She changed the second commandment. She changed the day of rest from the Sabbath, Saturday to SUN DAY. The LORDS DAY......BAALS DAY. She celebrated Jesus birth on Dec 25th.......the sun gods birthday. She celebrated the death of Jesus on Easter..........Ishtar. She introduced Lent which is the 40 days of mourning the death of Tammuz.
Eze 8
13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.

14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

The list goes on and on.

The Harlot is Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Witchcraft, Voodoo, (Baal, Bel, Belios, Zeus and Jupiter are all the SAME God with a little different name hence the Throne of Satan was the Temple to Zeus in Pergamum). All of the Roman gods, all of the Babylonian gods and demi-gods, all of the Egyptian gods are all the same.

I agree with all of this except I think that the RCC is Mystery Babylon of Revelation because of the reasons that I listed.......and many more. FYI, as far as Islam is concerned it is different. All the other false religions have the sun god as the male diety. In Islam the moon god is actually the male diety in the trinity of the sun, moon and star. That is why you see their symbol as the crescent moon.

The Mystery Religion of Ancient Babylon or Mesopotamia began post flood, and it is the beginning of paganism, all mankind had just been destroyed. This "Mystery Religion" has been told in many different stories via many religions, it consists of a lot of names of many different gods, but they are in affect all actually the same gods but just different cultures, different times, all the same stories and the explanation to what Mystery Babylon is in its simplest form is that it is simply polytheism and or paganism: SEE BELOW:

Polytheism is the belief in MANY GODS: The true knowledge or the goals of these gods were only given to the few. The high priests and priestess who passed down the religion.They required a sacrifice to the gods and they were the only ones that could commune with the gods. They held the secret knowledge which gave them power over the ones who did not have the knowledge. Well you get the point.

In Polytheism it's always the same structure in most cultures, one man is god, one virgin woman who was the mother of god, and a son of the mother who was impregnated from the male god.

Paganism = Father god, Mother god and the Son of god.

Paganism came from the line of Ham via Cush see Genesis ch. 10. He created the rebellion against the real God via the Tower of Babel. They wanted to challenge the power of God. So God just confused their languages and put a stop to this nonsense, but Nimrod arose, he was a Mighty hunter and became leader of the Assyrian/Babylonian Empire. Nimrod began these Mystery Religions, but they spread all around the World hence MYSTERY BABYLON is world wide by the time the Angel explains it to us in Revelation chapter 17. Not quite as deep as I am going to explain it here, but nevertheless, we should be able to understand the Angel.

Exactly.

Nimrod = sun god
Semiramis = moon goddess, the mother and wife of Nimrod
Tammuz = the son of god.

Exactly. Tammuz is the false savior. The supposed reincarnation of Nimrod. Nimrod was dead when Tammuz was born. His father was an angel, likely Satan. Tammuz is the sun god as Nimrod is the sun god. But Tammuz is also the star. (Istar is also the star...Venus)

The Ancient Babylonian god Nebo = Nabu = Nimrod = Ba'al this is the BIRTH of the Occult. It all leads back to Nimrod, and it even goes back further to Cain in reality. The MARK OF CAIN !!

So we have Nimrod the sun god, Semiramis the moon goddess and Tammuz the son of god. Nimrod communicated with the Spirit World of course. They performed human sacrifices, he was seen as god, he challenged Gods authority. Now Shem, abhorred or hated these abominations and he killed Nimrod, cut him up in pieces and sent him to all the cities Nimrod ruled over to show that he was NOT GOD!! He wanted the people to stop doing what they were doing and to start worshiping and obeying God again. This threw a kink in Satan's plans. BUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT ?

Agreed

Semiramis happened !! The Mother of Harlots. She was the wife of Cush and the mother of Nimrod, she claimed to be divinely born. She married Nimrod after Cush lost power, her own son. After Nimrod was killed she became pregnant and told everyone it was the "Spirit of Nimrod" that impregnated her. (LOL, LOL). She claimed she was having a Miraculous or "Virgin Birth" from the spirit of Nimrod.

Semiramis claimed that Nimrod at his death became the sun, and that a ray of the sun impregnated her. In Egypt it is a bolt of lightning impregnated Isis.

Her son was going to be the Savior to defeat the serpent when in reality they were worshiping the serpent. She managed to get them to believe that Nimrod ascended to the sun, and she conceived via the sun rays. He was to now be worshiped as Ba'al, the Sun-god. She made herself a goddess and claimed that she was divinely created, she was in effect the moon-goddess. She had them believing she came from the moon in a giant moon egg.

LOL, yeah, I'm just leaving my earlier comment on the sun ray as I am commenting as I am reading.

The queen of Babylon aka Semiramis became known as the moon-goddess Ishtar. Tammuz was the Son of god or the Sun-god REBORN !! He was killed by a wild pig,

Yes Tammuz was killed by a wild boar. It was said that some of his blood fell on a stump and that overnight an evergreen tree had grown from the stump. Hence that is why the evergreen tree is cut down and decorated....to this day. The Christmas tree honors Tammuz, the reincarnated Nimrod. That is why the fir trees will rejoice when this MAN is laid down.

Semiramis, now Ishtar stated that he ascended to the sun like his father and they now are a union. Semiramis/Ishtar continued on with her false religious worship and sacrifices, but because of Shem and their constant defeat by God they CHANGED TACTICS, what was once done out in the open would now be done IN SECRET. The Secret Societies so to speak. All of these dark practices would henceforth be done in the dark, it would become a MYSTERY, only completely revealed unto those that were WORTHY !! You know, the high priests and priestesses. Some say the Freemasons etc. etc.

So now you know what the MYSTERY RELIGION was/is. This is how it was created. But alas, this Mystery Religion spread amongst all the ancient empires of Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece and Rome, this is what Paganism is.

This religion spread across the earth with the confusion of languages at the Tower of Babel.

The stories may change, the name of the gods may change, but there are ALWAYS THREE CENTRAL FIGURES with a very specific structure.

The Father god who is the Sun-god.
The Mother god who is the Moon-goddess.
The Son of god who is the Sun-god REBORN.

Babylon had Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz.

Egypt had Ra, Isis and Horus.

Greece had Zeus, Artemis and Adonis

Rome had Jupiter, Diana and Apollo.

The Nordic's had Odin, Joro and Thor.

The Hindus had Vishnu, Chandra and Krishna

Yep.....there are lots of other variation depending on the time, such as Egypt also has Osiris as Nimrod the male god in addition to Ra and few others.

Satan seeks to confuse and deceive of course. He knew the SEED would bruise his heel (Die and be Resurrected) and thus bruise the Serpent's head. So he knew there had to be a Virgin Birth and a death and resurrection to take away the sins of all mankind, so he set out to copy/imitate and deceive the masses with his MYSTERY RELIGION or with ALL FALSE RELIGION worldwide.

Now did the RCC crossover into some of these erroneous practices? I think they did, they treat Mary more akin to the moon-goddess hence the Madonna and the baby. But they did not introduced the bunny rabbits and eggs however, at least not in America, that seems to have arrived in America via a German tradition in the 1700's. German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania and transported their tradition of an egg-laying hare called “Osterhase” or “Oschter Haws.” Their children made nests in which this creature could lay its colored eggs. So I think it's more of a "European" thing, we in America took the MANY TRADITIONS of the many cultures who migrated here and kind of mixed them all into one bag, the bad and the good. But they did not all come from the RCC. More or less most of these practices are from IGNORANCE, not from people actually seeking to worship false gods, and with God, He looks at our hearts intent.

Yep

So whenever you see a male god and a female god at the head of the hierarchy and there is a "Virgin Birth" you know this is MYSTERY BABYLON , even if there are 100's of other gods, these three are always at the Head or at the Hierarchy of the MYSTERY BABYLON Religion. Have some of these traditions creeped into the RCC? Well, maybe, but the RCC is not the Great Harlot nor can it be.

The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGIONS of ALL TIME and it was Birthed by Nimrod and Semiramis in Babylon.

Very nicely done except the RCC is harlot that sits on 7 mountains, and dresses in purple and scarlet and has a gold cup in her hand that contains the blood of the saints. The Romans were the ones to kill the Saints. The Vatican also backed the Axis powers in WWII. Germany was trying to wipe the Jew from the face of the earth. The RCC is the harlot as she has left her first love. They will see the smoke of her burning as the beast will hate the harlot and make her desolate.

 

[tranquil]

Hi CW,


So yes, essentially that is what I'm saying... the 7th king is that man of sin. After the fatal head wound he is avatared by Satan, and they together become the 8th king ... but is of the 7... which that 7 can also be translated as 7th. The 8th king is of the 7th king, but there are only 7 kings. The 2 are made one. This is my thesis.

Many people seem to think this, but I don't think this is accurate.

Rev 17

9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.

12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”
​

Revelation 17:10-11 = Revelation 13:1-3 & Revelation 13:11-12

1And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.

3One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. 4And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”

11Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.
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The 'dragon' is the 'one that is' (#6), then it gives its throne to the 7th head, then the 8th head forces people to worship the mortally wounded head. The sea beast kingdom is the 7th, the earth kingdom is the 8th.

 

[Choose Wisely]

To comply with the accepted view... that we must see Rev. 17:10-11 as kingdoms. To make the math work, even if we make the Medes and the Persians into 2 separate nations, we must add 2 more empires... which is what the scholars did...they added Egypt and Assyria so we could reach Rome and everything add up.

But when you see these 7 as kings... the math works perfectly.

Alexander
Ptolemy
Seleucus
Lysimachus
Cassander
Titus
That Man of Sin
The Son of Perdition

However, that does not work.........because the eighth king is of the seven.

 

[brasyliam]

The 7th and 8th king are one... intertwined together... = 1.

1. Alexander
2. Ptolemy
3. Seleucus
4. Lysimachus
5. Cassander
6. Titus
7. Man of Sin/Son of Perdition

 

[brasyliam]

Many people seem to think this, but I don't think this is accurate.

Rev 17

9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.

12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”
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Revelation 17:10-11 = Revelation 13:1-3 & Revelation 13:11-12

1And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.

3One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. 4And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”

11Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.
​

The 'dragon' is the 'one that is' (#6), then it gives its throne to the 7th head, then the 8th head forces people to worship the mortally wounded head. The sea beast kingdom is the 7th, the earth kingdom is the 8th.

Now this is interesting because I do not even touch on the false prophet because there is so much there yet to be discovered. In fact the documentary led to more questions about the false prophet and his significance than even the beast.

Very interesting Tranquil.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The 7th and 8th king are one... intertwined together... = 1.

1. Alexander
2. Ptolemy
3. Seleucus
4. Lysimachus
5. Cassander
6. Titus
7. Man of Sin/Son of Perdition

Got ya. Thanks.

Son of Perdition = Tammuz

 

[Revealing Times]

Jesus is a man and God with God as his father. Tammuz is a man and god with an angel as his father. I'm thinking at his mortal death we would have a demon.

Men live ONCE...The Anti-Christ will be a man born (I think he's already alive, probably about 45-50) to a modern woman.

The RCC is Mystery Babylon that is a woman (Holy Mother Church) that sits on seven mountains and dresses in purple and scarlet. The reason the RCC is the harlot is because she gave up her 1st love. She is disguised as Christianity. Vatican City is destroyed and that is who is mourned over by the merchants of the earth.

I explained above why it's not, nor can it be the RCC. The 7 Mountains is a False Flag, it's about 7 Kingdoms in 7 different places. All Royalty and Religious Orders dressed in Scarlet and Purple. Its pointing us to who the Harlot and the Beast is.....Harlot = (False Religion).....Beast = (Government Powers/Royalty). She has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her hands = she stretches back to the beginnings. SAINTS...........AND............MARTYRS are placed there for a reason, so we will know she is ALL FALSE RELIGION throughout all history.

The Saints were killed by the Roman empire. The place where many of the Saints were killed is actually located at the Vatican. Rome took over the church. She changed the second commandment. She changed the day of rest from the Sabbath, Saturday to SUN DAY. The LORDS DAY......BAALS DAY. She celebrated Jesus birth on Dec 25th.......the sun gods birthday. She celebrated the death of Jesus on Easter..........Ishtar. She introduced Lent which is the 40 days of mourning the death of Tammuz.
Eze 8
13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.

14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

The list goes on and on.

The Roman Empire is not the RCC is it ? Come on man. The Sabbath is every day to those who have the Holy Spirit in us. We are under Grace, not under the Law, that was the Pharisees problem, they loved the Law more than God. All of this RCC is fabricated deceit by Satan. The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION.

I agree with all of this except I think that the RCC is Mystery Babylon of Revelation because of the reasons that I listed.......and many more. FYI, as far as Islam is concerned it is different. All the other false religions have the sun god as the male diety. In Islam the moon god is actually the male diety in the trinity of the sun, moon and star. That is why you see their symbol as the crescent moon.

It's not a Mystery anymore. John wrote this before the RCC even existed in reality. But its all these false religions, can the hierarchy of the RCC be a part of it ? YES..........But not the Harlot in full, Islam is the biggest part of the Harlot, followed by other false religions.

 

[Douggg]

I'm not sure if I'm getting all that you are saying for sure... I still reiterate.. kings have kingdoms.. but I see the verses in Rev. 17 as God zeroing in on these 7 as kings...men.

brasyl, kings have kingdoms, but the number of kingdoms in Daniel 7 are 4.

The ten kings in Revelation 17 give their kingdom to the beast - Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

So going back to Daniel 7:23-24, we read that the ten kings (and the little horn person) comes out the fourth kingdom in the text.

The fourth kingdom is the Roman Empire. Which was in control at the time of Jesus and carried out the crucifixion of Jesus. Which when Jesus rose from his body being dead, and ascended to heaven is seen in Daniel 7:13-14.

Those things establish that the little horn person, who will be the 7th king of the 7 kings will come out the Roman Empire in the end times. Of the six kings in Revelation 17:10, those also came of the fourth kingdom.
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The little horn person, in Daniel 8:9, is not indicating that he will be descended from any of the four generals. But is indicating more information of where he head to the middle east and Israel from, the territory of one of the four beak up kingdoms - and why and what it means in regards to other bible prophecy. May require another post by me.

What I am trying to point out you, but probably should have presented some additional information - is that there are times when the symbology represents geographic locations, rather than the kingdoms or person(s) of those kingdoms directly.

Gog/Magog, for example.

Also in Revelation 13, the beast coming out of the sea, having the composite body of the first three beasts as kingdoms coming out of the sea in Daniel 7 - is referring to geographical locations. Which is the territory once controlled by those three historic kingdoms, overlapping in large part, to be that part of the world.

Which it is basically saying is that will 42 months left in the 7 years, the Roman Empire of the end times, the EU final form will have gained control of all of the oil.

I might note that in Daniel 7, there is a principle of the four beasts coming out of the sea were kingdoms. And when told by the angel to Daniel (Daniel 7:17) that the four beasts also, by saying coming out of the earth (dust of the earth, I think is what is being implied), that they represented men, four kings.

Taking that information and applying it to Revelation 13, the first beast comes out the sea - thus, a kingdom. But also the first beast is a man, because it refers to him in that way in the rest of Revelation.

Differently, the second beast comes out the earth (like in Daniel 7:17) , which is to say he is a man. But does not have his own kingdom. So he is not a king, like the first beast. And later in Revelation is called the false prophet.
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Also, I was trying to explain to you are making an almost universal error in calling the person the Antichrist - when the person no longer functioning in the Antichrist role, after he commits the transgression of desolation act in 2Thessalonians2:4.

Being the Antichrist is only for the time he is in the role of being the (illegitimate) King of Israel.

You may not be aware, but Jews at their Passover meal, by tradition set a place for Elijah because they believe that Elijah must come before the messiah. They have scriptural basis for it.

And also because the messiah - to be anointed the King of Israel, they believe it has to be done by a known prophet, which Elijah seems to fit the bill. Historically, all of the kings of Israel, when it was a single nation, before the split, were anointed by prophets. There have been only three kings over united Israel.

Saul and David anointed by Samuel. And Solomon by Nathan.

So the point being it is likely that the false prophet will present himself as Elijah and will anoint the person as the King of Israel.
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Now we get to the other sticky point of confirming the covenant for 7 years. Which Titus never did any such confirming, and is not the prince who shall come.

Almost universally, commentators say the covenant to be confirmed for 7 years is a peace plan, agreement. Where they get this from is in Daniel 8, it says the person destroys many by peace.

Where the failure is in that thinking is that there is actually a requirement in the bible, which the leaders of Israel, perpetual to all generations are supposed to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years. Moses established that requirement in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Basically it takes the form of being a big speech to the nation of Israel that God gave them the land of Israel as theirs forever.

I have talked to Jews and asked them why this speech has not been made, even though they have their country again. What they told me was since Moses made it part of the requirement that the speech be given from the place of God's choosing - the Jews take the place as being the temple mount. And it is not possible under Muslim control of the temple mount... for a Jew to even pray there.

So the confirming of the covenant for the seven years will not be done until after Gog/Magog. Which there is 100% concrete validation in Ezekiel 39, that will be the case.

Which following Gog/Magog, the prince who shall come, the Jews will believe he is the messiah and will be anointed the (illegitimate) King of Israel, making him at that point - the Antichrist. And he, in the role of being the King of Israel, will make that speech - only to transgress the Mt. Sinai covenant about three years later.

We can't know ahead of time exactly when, because it triggers the Day of the Lord, which "cometh as a thief in the night" (1Thessalonians5:2), shattering the illusion that Israel will be living in, thinking they are in the early stages of the messianic age.

I showed the progression of these things on my chart.

 

[brasyliam]

brasyl, kings have kingdoms, but the number of kingdoms in Daniel 7 are 4.

Yes there are only 4. If you notice... Dan. 7:6, it is the leopard. The leopard represents Greece. It has 4 wings/4 heads.

You are correct... there are 4 kingdoms. But there are 5 kings that come out of the 3rd kingdom... the leopard (Alexander) and his 4 heads (the 4 generals).

Those things establish that the little horn person, who will be the 7th king of the 7 kings will come out the Roman Empire in the end times.

He will at least claim Roman heritage, whether he arises out of Rome geographically is unknown to me. He could also claim, Greek, Trojan, Spartan as well as Egyptian and Babylonian lineage as well.

Of the six kings in Revelation 17:10, those also came of the fourth kingdom.

I'm sorry, I disagree.

So the point being it is likely that the false prophet will present himself as Elijah and will anoint the person as the King of Israel.

That the False Prophet will claim to be Elijah is interesting.

Now we get to the other sticky point of confirming the covenant for 7 years. Which Titus never did any such confirming, and is not the prince who shall come.

In the documentary, you might listen again to that part and you will hear I said the verses in Daniel 9 about the prince that shall come are "reflexive". Titus destroyed the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD. The future prince that shall come, I believe will at least claim descent from Titus, and repeat the same travesties in Jerusalem as did Titus. It is reflexive... meaning it happened once, by Prince Titus, it will happen again by the future prince that shall come. Reflexive. Reflexive. Just as Anticochus Epiphanes parallels the beast.

shattering the illusion that Israel will be living in, thinking they are in the early stages of the messianic age.

Makes sense. Interesting.

 

[Douggg]

brasyl, kings have kingdoms, but the number of kingdoms in Daniel 7 are 4.

Yes there are only 4. If you notice... Dan. 7:6, it is the leopard. The leopard represents Greece. It has 4 wings/4 heads.

You are correct... there are 4 kingdoms. But there are 5 kings that come out of the 3rd kingdom... the leopard (Alexander) and his 4 heads (the 4 generals).

Those things establish that the little horn person, who will be the 7th king of the 7 kings will come out the Roman Empire in the end times.

He will at least claim Roman heritage, whether he arises out of Rome geographically is unknown to me. He could also claim, Greek, Trojan, Spartan as well as Egyptian and Babylonian lineage as well.

Of the six kings in Revelation 17:10, those also came of the fourth kingdom.

I'm sorry, I disagree.

So the point being it is likely that the false prophet will present himself as Elijah and will anoint the person as the King of Israel.

That the False Prophet will claim to be Elijah is interesting.

Now we get to the other sticky point of confirming the covenant for 7 years. Which Titus never did any such confirming, and is not the prince who shall come.

In the documentary, you might listen again to that part and you will hear I said the verses in Daniel 9 about the prince that shall come are "reflexive". Titus destroyed the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD. The future prince that shall come, I believe will at least claim descent from Titus, and repeat the same travesties in Jerusalem as did Titus. It is reflexive... meaning it happened once, by Prince Titus, it will happen again by the future prince that shall come. Reflexive. Reflexive. Just as Anticochus Epiphanes parallels the beast.

shattering the illusion that Israel will be living in, thinking they are in the early stages of the messianic age.

Makes sense. Interesting.

brasyl, if you look at my chart, and follow down through it, the roles of the person are in order as they are presented in the bible.

1. little horn - Daniel 7, Daniel 8
2. prince who shall come - Daniel 9
3. Antichrist - 1John 2:18
4. Revealed man of sin - 2Thessalonians2:4
5. Beast - Revelation 13

 

[Douggg]

In the documentary, you might listen again to that part and you will hear I said the verses in Daniel 9 about the prince that shall come are "reflexive". Titus destroyed the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD. The future prince that shall come, I believe will at least claim descent from Titus, and repeat the same travesties in Jerusalem as did Titus.

On what are you basing - the future person destroys Jerusalem and the temple?

In Zechariah 14, Jesus returns to Jerusalem.

 

[brasyliam]

From what I can tell of the chart, which may be a bit clearer to you than to me, if I am understanding it correctly, parts I agree with. But as to how you develop your interpretation and many points that you have covered in previous posts, I'm afraid we see things differently. My documentary is a theory, a thesis. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps neither of us are right. I respect your zealousness to try to reach the truth in these things... which I share in that zeal as well.