The Beast is creeping into my kid's school!

NightHawkeye

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I don't know about that, I took a semester of Russian in college and we never went into the "glorious struggle of the people in mother Russia".

I suppose that might be because my instructor's parents fled the mother country during the Stalin regime...
Naa ...

I had several semesters of Russian in college. We never went into the culture either. That is, unless you count incidental exposure to Russian culture gleaned from simple novels which served as reading material. Some of my classmates were interested in Russian culture and that provided incidental exposure as well.

But teaching culture as part of the curriculum? Not so much ...
 
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simonpeter

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The "theoretical Communism, outlined by Marx" also included a healthy dose of atheism. It was Marx in the "Communist Manifesto" that said "Religion is the opiate of the people". Marx's mandated atheism is what led to persecution of Christians (not to mention Jews and Muslims) in communist countries.
.

Not quite. Read this article to understand Marx's views better. Here's an important paragraph:

"A careful examination of Marx’s writings on the subject reveals that while he certainly criticised religion, he was equally scathing about liberals who elevated criticism of religion over all other political concerns."

Read full article at: Marx and religion|4Mar06|Socialist Worker
 
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kiwimac

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The "theoretical Communism, outlined by Marx" also included a healthy dose of atheism. It was Marx in the "Communist Manifesto" that said "Religion is the opiate of the people". Marx's mandated atheism is what led to persecution of Christians (not to mention Jews and Muslims) in communist countries.

Oddly enough, Reagan backed the Taliban in the 80s to help them get the Russians out of Afghanistan.

Actually Marx's quote is much more complex than that. What he said was
"...Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world.

Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.[1]

[1] Marx, K. 1976. Introduction to A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right. Collected Works, v. 3. New York.
 
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interpreter

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Just to set the record straight, Jesus was not a communist ...
Jesus always told His rich followers to sell everything they owned and give the money to the poor. And the early Church all lived togeher in a commune. In my book, that makes Jesus a Communist.
 
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laconicstudent

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Jesus always told His rich followers to sell everything they owned and give the money to the poor. And the early Church all lived togeher in a commune. In my book, that makes Jesus a Communist.


:thumbsup:
 
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NightHawkeye

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Jesus always told His rich followers to sell everything they owned and give the money to the poor. And the early Church all lived togeher in a commune. In my book, that makes Jesus a Communist.
Nope. Not even close.

Jesus and his followers lived the way they did through free choice ...

His preferred church was also open and free ...

I said earlier the opposite of communism is freedom. Think about it, the opposite of freedom is communism. The opposite of free will is full control by government, i.e., communism.

No two ways about it ...
 
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laconicstudent

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Nope. Not even close.

Jesus and his followers lived the way they did through free choice ...

His preferred church was also open and free ...

I said earlier the opposite of communism is freedom. Think about it, the opposite of freedom is communism. The opposite of free will is full control by government, i.e., communism.

No two ways about it ...

No, I think you are thinking about Totalitarianism, not Communism, sorry.
 
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NightHawkeye

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No, I think you are thinking about Totalitarianism, not Communism, sorry.
As I said earlier, laconicstudent ...

"I'm sure you just missed my prior post, laconicstudent. The opposite of communism is freedom. Communism is not an economic ideology. Communism is enslavement under the guise of social equality.

Want proof? Just look at the pattern in communist countries:
First, the elite are eliminated. It happened in the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cuba, Cambodia, everywhere. (In logical terms this is called a persistent pattern.)
The masses are indoctrinated. The intention is to teach them how to think. Those failing indoctrination are eliminated, just as the elite were. Of course, the party line goes something akin to "for the common good". (Kinda funny, how many people fail to see pure evil when it is given a warm-fuzzy name.)
Economic controls are placed on everything. Control the money; control the people. Power is consolidated centrally and people lose control over virtually all aspects of their lives.

Is the pattern becoming clear yet?"


Now, to be clear, I'm talking about freedom not capitalism. There are many flaws in our society. One of them is:
the big business<-->big government duality

There is plenty of evil in that. I believe your intentions are good laconicstudent. I can only recommend that you consider thinking about freedom instead of communism. If for no other reason, God has always been on the side of freedom. God has repeatedly demonstrated that he wants his people to be free. It's one of his fundamental natural laws. He detests the same things you detest.

But, do you really think God likes communism?
 
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LightHorseman

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Nope. Not even close.

Jesus and his followers lived the way they did through free choice ...

His preferred church was also open and free ...

I said earlier the opposite of communism is freedom. Think about it, the opposite of freedom is communism. The opposite of free will is full control by government, i.e., communism.

No two ways about it ...
Note to all Americans... communism =/= totalitarianism
 
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laconicstudent

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Its hardly that bad. :)

Look at how happy they are

chinese-propaganda3.jpg



Communism is just another political ideology. If their veneration of Mao goes a bit further then certain elements of the United State's veneration of Ayn Rand, well, we all have our little cultural quirks. :groupray:
 
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NightHawkeye

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If their veneration of Mao goes a bit further then certain elements of the United State's veneration of Ayn Rand, well, we all have our little cultural quirks. :groupray:
Quite an amazing comparison, laconicstudent.

How many people Ayn Rand killed = zero

How many people Mao killed = 50,000,000+

Even now, genocide continues under Chinese communism. In the last decade alone:
Chinese policies have involved the extermination of more than 1 million Tibetans, the forced relocation of millions of Tibetan villagers and nomads, the population transfer of millions of Chinese settlers, and systematic assimilation.Tibet: Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity

Maybe not really so happy, after all ...

Perhaps 200 million people killed under communism worldwide. To put it in perspective for you, that's more deaths than both world wars combined.

Each one God's creation. Do you think God has forgotten?
 
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laconicstudent

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You are aware that Rand practically worshipped Psychopathic personalities aren't you?

^^This.

Don't mistake an inability to kill millions for a lack of desire. Rand was... odd. Brilliant, though. I can't quite understand why you insist on generalizing an entire political ideology by the actions of a few.

"God hate Capitalism, because the Capitalists at Enron ran roughshod over their employees."

^^Equally silly claim.
 
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NightHawkeye

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Don't mistake an inability to kill millions for a lack of desire. Rand was... odd. Brilliant, though. I can't quite understand why you insist on generalizing an entire political ideology by the actions of a few.
The few?

You mean the few who actually managed to implement communism?

Let's see: Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba ...

If these are the few, who are the others?
 
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laconicstudent

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The few?

You mean the few who actually managed to implement communism?

Let's see: Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba ...

If these are the few, who are the others?

Countries aren't human beings. What on Earth are you talking about? :confused:
 
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NightHawkeye

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Countries aren't human beings. What on Earth are you talking about? :confused:

I was interpreting your language literally. Did you mean something else?

laconicstudent said:
I can't quite understand why you insist on generalizing an entire political ideology by the actions of a few.

I thought few referred back to the few countries I had previously stated. Had we discussed a "few" of anything else, laconicstudent?
 
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laconicstudent

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I was interpreting your language literally. Did you mean something else?



I thought few referred back to the few countries I had previously stated. Had we discussed a "few" of anything else, laconicstudent?

Well, you were talking about Mao, then you started talking about countries. I'm just watching you, I guess.
 
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