The Basis of God's Judgment

[fhansen]

More like because of the very real possibility that not everyone sitting in a pew, who partakes of services, is actually saved. Your assumptions are just that.

Hmm, ok. In any case I believe that it's a safe assumption, as well as a scriptural truth, to consider that not everyone who thinks they're saved, will be saved.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Hmm, ok. In any case I believe that it's a safe assumption, as well as a scriptural truth, to consider that not everyone who thinks they're saved, will be saved.

I too believe in the concept of self-deception, the Apostle Paul refers to the concept in Romans Chapter 1.

 

[Thess]

What I do read is exhortation to walk with confidence and assurance, not fear and doubt.

Please keep telling people this! Great job.

 

[Thess]

More like because of the very real possibility that not everyone sitting in a pew, who partakes of services, is actually saved. Your assumptions are just that.

Another great post.

[1Jo 4:1 NLT] "Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world."

 

[redleghunter]

In Catholicism faith is a gift, of grace, that can be accepted or rejected.

Not according to one of your doctors Augustine.

He goes into painful detail here:

CHURCH FATHERS: On the Predestination of the Saints, Book I (Augustine)

Gets good around chapter 6 after he retracts his earlier view of synergism.

 

[Thess]

Gets good around chapter 6 after he retracts his earlier view of synergism.

That actually made me chuckle out loud.

Look, anyone who has truly felt the raw, intense, Almighty Power of the God of this Universe would find it utterly illogical and irrational to reject such Power. Only a lunatic would deny God in this way....no way around it. Instead, they'd wake up and understand the necessity of obedience asap. The Apostle Paul and his Damascus Road experience would concur with most certainty.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes it is a gift of God, of the Spirit, and is ever rejected by the flesh unless or until God converts the sinner out of divine mercy. Our acceptance comes in after the fact God has set us free and enabled us to respond.

Indeed.

Chapter 11 [VI.]— That Some Men are Elected is of God's Mercy.
Many hear the word of truth; but some believe, while others contradict. Therefore, the former will to believe; the latter do not will. Who does not know this? Who can deny this? But since in some the will is prepared by the Lord, in others it is not prepared, we must assuredly be able to distinguish what comes from God's mercy, and what from His judgment. What Israel sought for, says the apostle, he has not obtained, but the election has obtained it; and the rest were blinded, as it is written, God gave to them the spirit of compunction — eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, even to this day. And David said, Let their table be made a snare, a retribution, and a stumblingblock to them; let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see; and bow down their back always. Romans 11:7 Here is mercy and judgment — mercy towards the election which has obtained the righteousness of God, but judgment to the rest which have been blinded. And yet the former, because they willed, believed; the latter, because they did not will believed not. Therefore mercy and judgment were manifested in the very wills themselves. Certainly such an election is of grace, not at all of merits. For he had before said, So, therefore, even at this present time, the remnant has been saved by the election of grace. And if by grace, now it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace.Romans 11:5 Therefore the election obtained what it obtained gratuitously; there preceded none of those things which they might first give, and it should be given to them again. He saved them for nothing. But to the rest who were blinded, as is there plainly declared, it was done in recompense. All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth. But His ways are unsearchable. Therefore the mercy by which He freely delivers, and the truth by which He righteously judges, are equally unsearchable.

CHURCH FATHERS: On the Predestination of the Saints, Book I (Augustine)

 

[redleghunter]

He sure did. The two Thessalonian letters are like none other in the bible. Why? Because they had LOVE figured out! Hense, my nickname of Thess. I want to be a Thessalonian.

Yet they were not as noble as the Bereans....

Lol just had to add that in.

 

[redleghunter]

More like because of the very real possibility that not everyone sitting in a pew, who partakes of services, is actually saved. Your assumptions are just that.

That’s the problem of equating the institutional church with born again.

You are right Jesus said there would be tares among the wheat.

 

[Thess]

Yet they were not as noble as the Bereans....

Lol just had to add that in.

NO! This cannot be!!! LOL - I had completely forgotten about that passage. But seriously, that passage isn't talking about the believers in the church, but the non-believers outside of the church as identified in vs 13.

 

[BBAS 64]

And with this I'd disagree. He enables us to respond, but we can still refuse. We can't possibly be saved without Him, and yet we can still refuse to be saved, or turn back away from Him at any point after accepting.

Good day, Fhansen

A quick question(s).. "he enables us, but we can still refuse."

Does he know we will refuse before or after he enables us, or does he learn after we have done so?

I think you would agree he enables us because for the explicit effect of responding, and with out that enabling (by God) we are wholly unable... he is the necessary primary cause?

In Him,

Bill

 

[Thess]

God's Almighty Power is greater than our meagre understanding.

[Jhn 6:39 NIV] 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that [I shall lose none of all those he has given me], but raise them up at the last day.

 

[fhansen]

Good day, Fhansen

A quick question(s).. "he enables us, but we can still refuse."

Does he know we will refuse before or after he enables us, or does he learn after we have done so?

I think you would agree he enables us because for the explicit effect of responding, and with out that enabling (by God) we are wholly unable... he is the necessary primary cause?

In Him,

Bill

Yes, He is the cause.

 

[fhansen]

God's Almighty Power is greater than our meagre understanding.

Without doubt.

[Jhn 6:39 NIV] 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that [I shall lose none of all those he has given me], but raise them up at the last day.

Yes, and He doesn't want any to perish; He wants all to be saved and come to a knowledge of truth, but some will perish. Why? Because in His sovereign power God deems it worthy and good for man to have his own will, separate from His.

 

[Thess]

Without doubt.

Yes, and He doesn't want any to perish; He wants all to be saved and come to a knowledge of truth, but some will perish. Why? Because in His sovereign power God deems it worthy and good for man to have his own will, separate from His.

So you're saying that when Jesus says "none of them will die", you're saying they will die anyway? Sorry....just want to make sure I'm not taking anyone out of context by stepping into a conversation I haven't been closely following.

 

[fhansen]

That actually made me chuckle out loud.

Look, anyone who has truly felt the raw, intense, Almighty Power of the God of this Universe would find it utterly illogical and irrational to reject such Power. Only a lunatic would deny God in this way....no way around it. Instead, they'd wake up and understand the necessity of obedience asap. The Apostle Paul and his Damascus Road experience would concur with most certainty.

And to "understand the necessity of obedience asap" involves a decision, a matter of the will.

 

[BBAS 64]

Yes, He is the cause.

Thanks...

how about-

A quick question(s).. "he enables us, but we can still refuse."

Does he know we will refuse before or after he enables us, or does he learn after we have done so?

 

[Thess]

And to "understand the necessity of obedience asap" involves a decision, a matter of the will.

You mean that awful six letter word, "submit"? Gasp!

To the credit of "said christians", the clear word "submit" isn't mentioned all that often. I've been in the church for 51 years and submission wasn't expected in any way, sense or form. Submission seemed to exclusively be a word prepared and designed for children, while adults, elders, deacons, worship leaders and pastors are committing adultery. The Secret Gospel that is "christianity" today is rampant and few recognize it. Scary.

 

[fhansen]

Thanks...

how about-

A quick question(s).. "he enables us, but we can still refuse."

Does he know we will refuse before or after he enables us, or does he learn after we have done so?

God it is omniscient; he doesn't exist in time; he knows everything.

I'll ask you a question, should man be held accountable for the evil he commits, whether legally or morally?

 

[Thess]

Thanks...

how about-

A quick question(s).. "he enables us, but we can still refuse."

Does he know we will refuse before or after he enables us, or does he learn after we have done so?

"God allows us to struggle with sin our whole lives to convince us until our dying breath of our desperate need of the gospel." -John Newton"

I really like what you've got, here. It's so true. Thanks for sharing this truth to us every day....