The balance between God's Sovereignty and our faith

[probinson]

Over the years, I have observed 2 extremes in Christianity.

At the one extreme, people believe that God is in absolute, total control, does not require our faith, and doesn't need us to accomplish anything. It leads to a belief quite similar to fatalism, except "fate" is replaced by "God's will"

At the other extreme, people believe that God absolutely requires our faith to do anything. It leads to a very works-based idea, that if we don't pray enough, or read our bible enough, or believe exactly the right thing, God can't do anything for us.

However, it is my belief that a balance must be struck between those 2 extremes.

There are most certainly times when God does something for us absent our faith. I had an example of this just last July. July 10 was my 10th wedding anniversary, and because of some unexpected expenses and a lack of planning on my part, it didn't look like my wife and I were going to be able to do anything for our anniversary. So, I prayed. It went something like this; "God, you know I don't have the money to take my wife away for the weekend, but I'd really like to. I'm so thankful for the blessing you've given me in my wife, and I would like to be able to take her somewhere. If you would, I would greatly appreciate it if you would provide a way for me to take her somewhere. Amen."

If I'm being quite honest with you, I just threw this out there. I didn't expect anything to happen. I was not expecting to be able to take my wife anywhere, and I asked myself why I even bothered to pray.

Long story short, 12 hours later, someone had sent me some completely unexpected money through PayPal, that more than paid for me to take my wife away for the weekend. God is so good! I stared at my computer screen in disbelief when I got the "You've got money!" email. I knew God was showing me something.

Now, that did not happen because I am Super-Faith-Man®. It happened because God wanted to show me His Love, and remind me that there most certainly are times when regardless of my faith, He acts on my behalf.

But there was another time as well. About 4 years ago, I was going through some difficult financial times. I felt hopeless. My home was about to be foreclosed upon, both of my cars were about to repossessed, my electric and gas were about to be shut off, bill collectors were calling upwards of 12 times per day.... it was bad.

I had no faith. I saw no way out.

Then, I heard God speak to me; have faith in God. The very same words that Jesus spoke to His disciples, I heard God speak them to me. I heard Him gently remind me to "say unto this mountain".

Having heard God speak this to me, faith welled up on the inside of me. I stood and spoke against the mountain of debt and hopelessness in my life, told it to be removed and cast into the sea.

After nearly 3 years of despair, I suddenly felt peace as I spoke out in faith against the mountains in my life. And whaddayaknow, 4 days later, I was promoted on my job, I got an unexpected lump sum of money, and a situation 3 years in the making was completely turned around in one single day.

Both of those testimonies have one thing in common; God provided. I take no credit for either testimony. But in the second testimony, God required my action.

We can't just sit back on our rumps and chalk everything up to the Sovereignty of God. There are times when God will do things simply because He is God and He Loves you, and there are other times when He will require you to step out in faith.

I guess my point is, don't get stuck in one ditch or the other. God's Sovereignty and our faith are not mutually exclusive things.

 

[JimB]

And a good balance it is, Pete. Thanx!

~Jim

Church is the only society on earth that exists for the benefit of non-members.​

 

[New_Wineskin]

I am glad that He blessed you in both instances .

 

[probinson]

I am glad that He belssed you in both instances .

Thank you. I am too!

 

[New_Wineskin]

I am confident that had I done nothing and not heeded the voice of God in the second instance, there very likely could have had a much different outcome.



Thank you. I am too!

Ok . While you were responding , I decided to edit my previous response .

 

[probinson]

Ok . While you were responding , I decided to edit my previous response .

Cool. I went back and edited too.

 

[Jpark]

Never mind.

 

[GreatistheLord]

thanks for your encouraging words. I too, have veered too far into the faith ditch at times, and I think it makes you feel like you have more control over your life. I like the excitement of the walk of faith, and believe God is there letting us choose how far we will trust Him.
He steps in as a good Father, willing us to trust Him more than we dare.
There are times when I want to give in, and I believe God will provide "an answer" by grace at that point. I have realised as well, that God's answers are purely by grace, as the faith, the patience, the endurance all come from Him. We dont deserve anything, and can't demand.

 

[Simon Peter]

Hi Pete,

Thank you for sharing some of your 'walk' and faith. It's well written and thought through, as usual.

However the premise that yours is a balanced approach, because it’s halfway between two ‘extremes’, is flawed. It may be tempting to look at the two extremes and plant a flag somewhere in the middle and declare your position ‘balanced’. But you must consider that instead of being two extremes, they are just different positions, and the attempt to reconcile them is just a third position. It could be that two of the three positions are just wrong.

To me, it’s a bit like six day creation opposed to a 700 million year evolution position. I know plenty of Christians in the UK that believe in a ‘middle road’ mix of creation and evolution. But because it’s between two extremes doesn’t make it balanced, or correct.

That said, I do believe, like you, that sometimes God sovereignly intervenes without our faith, and other times God inspires us to stand and believe and even declare with faith.

---

One thing I see a little differently, is the idea that believing God is sovereign (in absolute control) is somehow fatalistic to the point that it absolves you of responsibility and requires no faith.

I would challenge you, or anyone reading this, to trust that God is in absolute control; and see if that doesn't require faith! I assure you, your faith will be tested and stretched as you struggle to rest in the stillness and peace of a confidence in His sovereignty. And when something bad happens, it requires faith to humble yourself beneath the mighty hand of a sovereign God.

---

The second point is regarding responsibility. You appear to be suggesting that if you believe God is in absolute control, then what's the point of praying or struggling etc...just sit back and let life happen.

Firstly, I would again challenge you to just sit back, because it’s not going to happen.
Who has the faith, or the desire, to just sit back? Are there any examples of this in the church? Hasn’t God given us a desire to rise in the morning, to work, create, influence and pray?

Secondly, you seem to be suggesting that belief in God’s sovereignty absolves us from the responsibility of obedience? Which of course it doesn’t. We are told to live productive lives, to pray and fight the good fight etc.

Thirdly, aren’t all those media examples of children dying - because parents refused to take them to hospital – a result of extreme positive confession/WoF beliefs, not ‘sovereignty of God’ believers who just said “que sera, sera”?

---

Lastly, the issue of freewill. I believe God knows every decision everyone will make before hand (I believe God is omniscient) and He’s taken them into account in His perfect plan for you and the world. God also knows the extent that He will choose to influence or overrule those decisions, in order to bring about His perfect plan.

If I can attempt a more poetic description. Our whole life, with good and bad decisions, could be seen by God as an 'imperfect' thread with colours, knots and twists, but He is the one who spun the thread and gave it a predetermined length; and He is the one who weaves us into the fabric of history. He already sees the beauty and perfection of the finished tapestry.

Does the thread say to the master weaver, “why have you made me like this”?


peace,
Simon

 

[probinson]

Hi Pete,

Thank you for sharing some of your 'walk' and faith. It's well written and thought through, as usual.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

However the premise that yours is a balanced approach, because it’s halfway between two ‘extremes’, is flawed. It may be tempting to look at the two extremes and plant a flag somewhere in the middle and declare your position ‘balanced’. But you must consider that instead of being two extremes, they are just different positions, and the attempt to reconcile them is just a third position. It could be that two of the three positions are just wrong.

Well, let me clarify what I mean.

When I speak of the 2 extremes, I don't think either is "wrong", nor do I think that my approach is the "correct" approach. What I am saying is that different situations require different responses. So one "extreme" may be what is called for in one circumstance, while another set of circumstances may require the other "extreme".

Basically what I am saying is that we must be led by the Spirit. We can't formulate a one-size-fits-all response for every situation.

That said, I do believe, like you, that sometimes God sovereignly intervenes without our faith, and other times God inspires us to stand and believe and even declare with faith.

One thing I see a little differently, is the idea that believing God is sovereign (in absolute control) is somehow fatalistic to the point that it absolves you of responsibility and requires no faith.

I would challenge you, or anyone reading this, to trust that God is in absolute control; and see if that doesn't require faith! I assure you, your faith will be tested and stretched as you struggle to rest in the stillness and peace of a confidence in His sovereignty. And when something bad happens, it requires faith to humble yourself beneath the mighty hand of a sovereign God.

You're correct. We do see that a bit differently.

Here's the problem I have with the statement "God is in absolute control". If this is true in the sense I've heard many people state it, every rape, murder, and atrocity is directly attributable to God.

Contrarily, I believe that we have an enemy that we are instructed to resist. I also believe that some things happen simply because we live in a fallen world.

So while I believe that "God is in absolute control", I disagree with the way many people have interpreted that statement. IOW, I don't believe God is micromanaging every little event that happens in this world. We live in a fallen world, and until this world passes away, we will have to deal with all the baggage that comes with it.

With all that in mind, I do believe God is in control, but God is not controlling everything that happens, if that makes sense.

The second point is regarding responsibility. You appear to be suggesting that if you believe God is in absolute control, then what's the point of praying or struggling etc...just sit back and let life happen.

Firstly, I would again challenge you to just sit back, because it’s not going to happen.

But see, that's the problem I see with both these extremes. You've instructed us, very matter-of-factly, to sit back, because it's not going to happen. But what if God speaks to someone and tells them to do something? If I tell them to "sit back" because "God's in control", I could actually be leading them away from what God has instructed them to do.

What if Moses had just sat back, instead of raising his staff to part the Red Sea? God parted the sea, but Moses had to obey God's command to raise his staff. Had he just "sat back", the Red Sea likely would have never parted.

The point I'm trying to make is to not fall into either ditch, but in every circumstance, to be led of the Spirit of God.

Thirdly, aren’t all those media examples of children dying - because parents refused to take them to hospital – a result of extreme positive confession/WoF beliefs, not ‘sovereignty of God’ believers who just said “que sera, sera”?

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. I don't know of any WoF people who believe this, and just because there have been a handful of stories of this happening in the media over the years doesn't make it the "norm" by any standard.

Lastly, the issue of freewill. I believe God knows every decision everyone will make before hand (I believe God is omniscient) and He’s taken them into account in His perfect plan for you and the world. God also knows the extent that He will choose to influence or overrule those decisions, in order to bring about His perfect plan.

If I can attempt a more poetic description. Our whole life, with good and bad decisions, could be seen by God as an 'imperfect' thread with colours, knots and twists, but He is the one who spun the thread and gave it a predetermined length; and He is the one who weaves us into the fabric of history. He already sees the beauty and perfection of the finished tapestry.

Does the thread say to the master weaver, “why have you made me like this”?

No, but the "thread" does have the ability to approach the throne room of grace boldly in time of need, because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

The "thread" is also now called a "friend" of God.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Thanks for bringing this up Pete. Simon where were you 30 years ago. lol. It was something I shouted from the rooftops but it fell on deaf ears. Bless you. gg

 

[gratefulgrace]

Hi Pete,

Thank you for sharing some of your 'walk' and faith. It's well written and thought through, as usual.



That said, I do believe, like you, that sometimes God sovereignly intervenes without our faith, and other times God inspires us to stand and believe and even declare with faith.

---

One thing I see a little differently, is the idea that believing God is sovereign (in absolute control) is somehow fatalistic to the point that it absolves you of responsibility and requires no faith.

I would challenge you, or anyone reading this, to trust that God is in absolute control; and see if that doesn't require faith! I assure you, your faith will be tested and stretched as you struggle to rest in the stillness and peace of a confidence in His sovereignty. And when something bad happens, it requires faith to humble yourself beneath the mighty hand of a sovereign God.

---
Just for the record from my previous post this was 30 years ago when I had to walk in faith when my son was born with a physical disability and later aquired a mental development delay as well. Prayers for healing seemed to go unanswered God led me through the wilderness of unbalanced WOF teaching at the time. manyhad their ideas bout it but God has never let me down and promised me He was in control. I nolw see His purposes being fulfilled in this child of His (and mine for a time)gg

 

[Simon Peter]

Basically what I am saying is that we must be led by the Spirit. We can't formulate a one-size-fits-all response for every situation.

I agree with this completely. I am generally against formulae; we are in a relationship with God.

You're correct. We do see that a bit differently.

Here's the problem I have with the statement "God is in absolute control". If this is true in the sense I've heard many people state it, every rape, murder, and atrocity is directly attributable to God.

Contrarily, I believe that we have an enemy that we are instructed to resist. I also believe that some things happen simply because we live in a fallen world.

So while I believe that "God is in absolute control", I disagree with the way many people have interpreted that statement. IOW, I don't believe God is micromanaging every little event that happens in this world. We live in a fallen world, and until this world passes away, we will have to deal with all the baggage that comes with it.

With all that in mind, I do believe God is in control, but God is not controlling everything that happens, if that makes sense.

Although God is in absolute control, doesn’t mean “every rape, murder, and atrocity is directly attributable to God.” Nor does it mean that God is responsible for them.
However, it does mean God allows them, but we know that already, because God is the most powerful person in the universe, able to stop the world spinning, able to return to earth yesterday, yet rapes took place today.
God may allow atrocities to take place, but He is able to make these things work for good to bring Him glory. The pain of this world will glorify God. This is part of the genius of God.

But see, that's the problem I see with both these extremes. You've instructed us, very matter-of-factly, to sit back, because it's not going to happen. But what if God speaks to someone and tells them to do something? If I tell them to "sit back" because "God's in control", I could actually be leading them away from what God has instructed them to do.

What if Moses had just sat back, instead of raising his staff to part the Red Sea? God parted the sea, but Moses had to obey God's command to raise his staff. Had he just "sat back", the Red Sea likely would have never parted.

The point I'm trying to make is to not fall into either ditch, but in every circumstance, to be led of the Spirit of God.

I probably didn’t explain myself well. I was being sarcastic when I said ‘just sit back’. Believing in God’s sovereignty is going to make you more open to ‘waiting’ and inaction, than someone who thinks it’s all about them. But as I’ve said, we are still to be obedient, and this includes being obedient to the prompting of the Holy Spirit, not just obedient to the diligence required by scripture.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. I don't know of any WoF people who believe this, and just because there have been a handful of stories of this happening in the media over the years doesn't make it the "norm" by any standard.

I wasn’t saying it was the norm, but an extreme. I was pointing out that extreme WoF beliefs have led to children dying. But so called extreme “God is sovereign” beliefs, have not led to the same nuttiness, AFAIK. My point was that you can’t really compare the two ‘extremes’ as equally flawed.

No, but the "thread" does have the ability to approach the throne room of grace boldly in time of need, because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

The "thread" is also now called a "friend" of God.

Agreed.

[Just for the record from my previous post this was 30 years ago when I had to walk in faith when my son was born with a physical disability and later aquired a mental development delay as well. Prayers for healing seemed to go unanswered God led me through the wilderness of unbalanced WOF teaching at the time. manyhad their ideas bout it but God has never let me down and promised me He was in control. I nolw see His purposes being fulfilled in this child of His (and mine for a time)gg

This is a cool testimony.

God is almighty, He is all powerful, and He is GOOD.

Simon