The Authority Of His Name

[Ken Rank]

Hi Sister ..Yes ..I agree in that I am aware of the hebrew roots movement for which I am concerned that it is the same movement which Paul encountered in Galatia . ( i.e You must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses , etc. ) The "secret handshake" of speaking Hebrew mentality is potentially another form of gnosticism aka "works based " or knowledge based salvation . I am not opposed to those who keep a Saturday Sabbath verses the protestant keeping of the Lord's Day unless either becomes another gospel and leads us to think we are more spiritual because we do thus and so . ( Same thing with Jesus' name which is big in some pentecostal's understanding . ) The danger is letting a truth become The Truth . I see the same thing potentially in some of the plain groups with whom I have fellowshipped ..the head covering of women when they pray in order to demonstrate the power of Jesus' submission , can become a form of righteousness and like the Galatians who desired the circumcision of gentile believers , we can promote certain doctrines so that we may glory in their flesh . ( Quite a paradox but there is I believe grace for things we do not know provided we have love which covers a multitude of sins . ) Grace and peace through the Name ( authority ) which has been given by God our Father to the glory of His Son , Jesus Christ .

I am an elder at what you would call the Hebrew Roots Movement. We do not believe one needs to be circumcised to be saved, we don't believe in works unto salvation, and all the rest of the the nonsense that is bantered about on the internet by people who really don't know what they are talking about. That isn't to say there aren't some groups that think if you don't keep the law you're going to hell... but I could point out a few mainstream groups that have taken similar pendulum swings away from a balanced gospel. Bottom line for us, for me... is we are using Jesus as our model. What he did... we try to do as best we can and if we fail, he stands as our advocate. What we do we do out of love... and that's it. If you don't desire to walk as he walked as best you can, don't. That is between you and him. But don't indict hundreds of thousands of loving caring Christians because they hold a belief about their daily walk that you don't. Let us each work out our OWN salvation and respect each other where we are in God. Blessings.

 

[NeedyFollower]

I am an elder at what you would call the Hebrew Roots Movement. We do not believe one needs to be circumcised to be saved, we don't believe in works unto salvation, and all the rest of the the nonsense that is bantered about on the internet by people who really don't know what they are talking about. That isn't to say there aren't some groups that think if you don't keep the law you're going to hell... but I could point out a few mainstream groups that have taken similar pendulum swings away from a balanced gospel. Bottom line for us, for me... is we are using Jesus as our model. What he did... we try to do as best we can and if we fail, he stands as our advocate. What we do we do out of love... and that's it. If you don't desire to walk as he walked as best you can, don't. That is between you and him. But don't indict hundreds of thousands of loving caring Christians because they hold a belief about their daily walk that you don't. Let us each work out our OWN salvation and respect each other where we are in God. Blessings.

Brother Ken ...Test everything. And we are to work out our own salvation in fear and trembling. And I agree that Jesus ..Yeshua ..the Messiah did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it . He fulfilled the law when the women was caught in adultery and according to law , she was to be stoned . He never asked " Where is the man she was with ? but rather he who is without sin cast the first stone ..And the law was fulfilled ..Jesus -Yeshua - paid the penalty for adultery fulfilling the higher law of love ( and love and sacrifice are synonyms as it turns out . My concern with HR is that too much emphasis is placed on the outer ( the festivals , the wearing of tassels ( tzitzit ), etc. but most indicative of a problem is for english speaking people speaking to me in Hebrew . I appreciate our Hebrew Roots but God looks on the heart ..Why would anyone wishing to convey ( publish ) a MEANING to an english speaker using Hebrew ? If you wish me peace ...say peace or I wish you peace ... If 119 ministries need to become Jews in order to win the Jews ..by all means . So my fear is of course pride which comes from knowledge . This a real and true concern and as an elder , you must be on guard . We do not fight against flesh and blood so I am not indicting anyone but Paul knew where this would lead the Galatians ...a feeling of superiority and not humility . What got Jesus carried to a brow of a hill is the fact that God showed mercy to someone who was not a Jew ...They were not special because they were from Abraham's seed . If a person has too much invested in something ... and it does not matter which group ...( Protestant and all of it's children , Catholic , Jehovah Witness , Judaism , Bahia , Hebrew Roots , Adventist, etc. and the Truth shows up ...The Truth will be crucified . You are of course aware of this... And despite the teaching of HR regarding the rebuilding of the temple ....why reinstitute a shadow? Brother .. WE ARE THE TEMPLE ..This is the mystery ..God does not dwell in a temple made with HANDS ......Brother ..you talk about following Jesus ...I do and it cost me my wife , my children , my job , my home and my family . I did not see that coming but it could not be otherwise for those who are dear to me are walking towards the riches of this world and I because of and through love changed directions ...and this was God's doing ..not mine . I can only take credit for being lost.....Jesus found me ..If any man follow me , let them first count the cost . If God revealed to you that 119 is potentially leading folks down the dangerous path of spiritual pride ...what would it cost you to say something and would love compel you to do so ? Grace and peace in the name above all names ..Jesus Christ .

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I am an elder at what you would call the Hebrew Roots Movement. We do not believe one needs to be circumcised to be saved, we don't believe in works unto salvation, and all the rest of the the nonsense that is bantered about on the internet by people who really don't know what they are talking about. That isn't to say there aren't some groups that think if you don't keep the law you're going to hell... but I could point out a few mainstream groups that have taken similar pendulum swings away from a balanced gospel. Bottom line for us, for me... is we are using Jesus as our model. What he did... we try to do as best we can and if we fail, he stands as our advocate. What we do we do out of love... and that's it. If you don't desire to walk as he walked as best you can, don't. That is between you and him. But don't indict hundreds of thousands of loving caring Christians because they hold a belief about their daily walk that you don't. Let us each work out our OWN salvation and respect each other where we are in God. Blessings.

TBH Ken I hadn't heard it myself that the name of the Lord was being usurpt by anyone but I'm sure no one is blaming you.

 

[Ken Rank]

Brother Ken ...Test everything. And we are to work out our own salvation in fear and trembling. And I agree that Jesus ..Yeshua ..the Messiah did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it . He fulfilled the law when the women was caught in adultery and according to law , she was to be stoned . He never asked " Where is the man she was with ? but rather he who is without sin cast the first stone ..And the law was fulfilled ..Jesus -Yeshua - paid the penalty for adultery fulfilling the higher law of love ( and love and sacrifice are synonyms as it turns out . My concern with HR is that too much emphasis is placed on the outer ( the festivals , the wearing of tassels ( tzitzit ), etc. but most indicative of a problem is for english speaking people speaking to me in Hebrew . I appreciate our Hebrew Roots but God looks on the heart ..Why would anyone wishing to convey ( publish ) a MEANING to an english speaker using Hebrew ? If you wish me peace ...say peace or I wish you peace ... If 119 ministries need to become Jews in order to win the Jews ..by all means . So my fear is of course pride which comes from knowledge . This a real and true concern and as an elder , you must be on guard . We do not fight against flesh and blood so I am not indicting anyone but Paul knew where this would lead the Galatians ...a feeling of superiority and not humility . What got Jesus carried to a brow of a hill is the fact that God showed mercy to someone who was not a Jew ...They were not special because they were from Abraham's seed . If a person has too much invested in something ... and it does not matter which group ...( Protestant and all of it's children , Catholic , Jehovah Witness , Judaism , Bahia , Hebrew Roots , Adventist, etc. and the Truth shows up ...The Truth will be crucified . You are of course aware of this... And despite the teaching of HR regarding the rebuilding of the temple ....why reinstitute a shadow? Brother .. WE ARE THE TEMPLE ..This is the mystery ..God does not dwell in a temple made with HANDS ......Brother ..you talk about following Jesus ...I do and it cost me my wife , my children , my job , my home and my family . I did not see that coming but it could not be otherwise for those who are dear to me are walking towards the riches of this world and I because of and through love changed directions ...and this was God's doing ..not mine . I can only take credit for being lost.....Jesus found me ..If any man follow me , let them first count the cost . If God revealed to you that 119 is potentially leading folks down the dangerous path of spiritual pride ...what would it cost you to say something and would love compel you to do so ? Grace and peace in the name above all names ..Jesus Christ .

Interesting.... Jesus was a Jew who kept the law. Did he keep it so that you can sin? Or did he keep it because keeping it and dying without sin meant he could reverse the curse of death? We are not saved by works... but the saved work for faith without works is dead. That is fact... whether you agree or not is between you and God but that is what Scripture states. The only question is... did he die so you could sin because sin is the breaking of the law.

We are warned repeatedly that there will be lawlessness in the end times and I don't for a minute think the reference is to SECULAR law. I think it is clearly a reference to God's law. So, on one hand I am saying we keep it but not to be saved, we keep it because God desires us to walk according to His will not ours. And we have others saying grace is so sufficient that we no longer need to obey. The problem is, again.. that is by definition lawlessness and we have been warned.

And... if you really want to go and include me in groups like Jehovah's Witnesses or Bahai'.... groups you likely align to being bound to hell... then do you really want me to walk through the Anabaptist history and bring the things out that will cause you to think twice? Do you REALLY think every doctrine you adhere to is without blemish?

 

[Ken Rank]

TBH Ken I hadn't heard it myself that the name of the Lord was being usurpt by anyone but I'm sure no one is blaming you.

What is TBH? And I am not sure what you mean by his name being usurped? I don't think "Jesus" usurps Yeshua... I think there is a valid line of transliteration that takes us from Yehoshua to Jesus. The only problem over the last few hundred years is that the J took on the French influence harder sound we hear today... where before then it was of German influence and sounded like a Y. Other than that... no issues.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

What is TBH? And I am not sure what you mean by his name being usurped? I don't think "Jesus" usurps Yeshua... I think there is a valid line of transliteration that takes us from Yehoshua to Jesus. The only problem over the last few hundred years is that the J took on the French influence harder sound we hear today... where before then it was of German influence and sounded like a Y. Other than that... no issues.

To be honest

 

[SpiritSong]

I think sometimes when I write to Him, I simply write Dear Lord, or Dear LORD, and I write "Thank You, Lord" at the end of the letter. I always capitalize the You, in Thank You, when addressing Him. I end my prayers with "... in Jesus' Name." Or I say, "Thank You, Jesus."

 

[NeedyFollower]

Interesting.... Jesus was a Jew who kept the law. Did he keep it so that you can sin? Or did he keep it because keeping it and dying without sin meant he could reverse the curse of death? We are not saved by works... but the saved work for faith without works is dead. That is fact... whether you agree or not is between you and God but that is what Scripture states. The only question is... did he die so you could sin because sin is the breaking of the law.

We are warned repeatedly that there will be lawlessness in the end times and I don't for a minute think the reference is to SECULAR law. I think it is clearly a reference to God's law. So, on one hand I am saying we keep it but not to be saved, we keep it because God desires us to walk according to His will not ours. And we have others saying grace is so sufficient that we no longer need to obey. The problem is, again.. that is by definition lawlessness and we have been warned.

And... if you really want to go and include me in groups like Jehovah's Witnesses or Bahai'.... groups you likely align to being bound to hell... then do you really want me to walk through the Anabaptist history and bring the things out that will cause you to think twice? Do you REALLY think every doctrine you adhere to is without blemish?

Hi Brother ...No , we are not to use our freedom as a licence to sin but as a licence to love . A licence to pray . A licence to confess our sins knowing we have an advocate with the Father if any man does sin. Jesus Christ came to reconcile us to our Father and to be transformed into His image which was from the beginning. I may keep the secular and disobey Christ command that we love one another. It is perfectly legal ( and encouraged ) to put my money out to interest but this is of course against the law of love and faith and against Christ words regarding storing up treasures . I am free to remarry according to the laws of the land but again this is against the law of faithfulness and love which is eternal as is our God. ( Covetousness and adultery are sanctioned by law in this country and justified by many of those who would say they are in the body of Christ . )
I am well aware of the history of some of the Anabaptist in all their forms. Some were called Anabaptist because they were re-baptized as adults after conversion. Some like Thomas Muntzer provoked rebellion and stirred up discontent ...some groups were militaristic like David Karesh ..the branch dividians, claimed a new Jerusalem , practiced polygamy and died by the sword. ( There is nothing new under the sun ...same spirit ..different manifestations . ) There were some small groups which persecuted no one but were persecuted by all and gave their lives as a testimony. Many groups we have not heard much from since they did not seek to exalt theirselves ..they will be exalted on that day. Not written in history ..no name anyone would know nor remember but again their purpose was Christ and not their selves. Brother Ken ...my concern is that often times various groups can place so much emphasis on the outward , it may inadvertently cause them to think too highly of their selves which is paradoxically only a disease of the zealous. You may be familiar with some of the EARLY Moravians who sold theirselves into slavery for life so that they could preach the good news of the gospel to slaves. The ones like these are the ones who should take a higher seat at the marriage supper of the Lamb which we have all been invited. They did not wear Tzitzis ..blow a shofar ..nor kept a Saturday sabbath but they did give up their lives in order to bring life to others. I do not observe Christmas . Am I more righteous than those who did observe Christmas but died in concentration camps for protecting Jews from the Nazis ? God forbid I show up on that day with my theology and my knowledge. In Lamentations 2:4 it talks about those who see vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity but have seen for thee false burdens and causes for banishment.....in other words , straining out a gnat ( which IS indeed unclean and swallowing a camel. ) A gnat will not kill you ...a camel will. Brother , please love His sheep as I know that you do ...make sure that the keeping of the outward does not keep lead them into self-righteousness as it did with Saul/ Paul. Keep all of the feast but bring in the poor . If Hebrew Roots is doing this so that they may become Jews to the Jews , then praise God ! Just make sure that the converted Jews who you are trying to bring into the Kingdom of God, know there is a difference between secular Israel which is aligned with the US and $400 million in aid so that they can destroy their enemies and spiritual Israel which has beat their swords into pruning hooks and their spears into plowshares. ( A democracy and a Kingdom are at odds with one another. ) May God grant me, you and all of us who are called by His name , wisdom, discernment , love and truth. May we be less so that He be ALL.
PS ..Brother Ken ..you are aware why Jesus said to count the cost if any man wanted to be His disciple ? It is because the enemy of the truth does not play fair and it is unrealistic for one to think so . We are doing battle against principalities which have no principals. None . Lying , murder , flattery, duplicity, no problem ...religion ..no problem .. But of course , a good tree can not produce bad fruit ... meekness , humility , patience , truth , love are the fruits of the spirit . The ability to say , " I may be wrong ?" Not in his vocabulary ...well actually , Judas did say , Is it I Lord but being a liar , he was the only one who knew the answer before he asked ...the rest of the 12 had enough humility to know it could be .

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

....It is perfectly legal ( and encouraged ) to put my money out to interest but this is of course against the law of love and faith and against Christ words regarding storing up treasures . ... .

Usery has been replaced in the NT to give w/o expecting return.

 

[NeedyFollower]

Usery has been replaced in the NT to give w/o expecting return.

Yes exactly ...we are not to put our money out to gain interest and yet it is perfectly acceptable in modern times . It was not acceptable to the Jews nor was it acceptable to early Christians . Love compels us to give and we delight in giving. Giving IS the reward and hopefully it will help someone in need to the glory of God ! Hallelujah !
It shows how lost we have become in these days and that was the point of my comment . We are following the shifting sand of society and its laws and not the unchanging Rock . Thank you sister .

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Yes exactly ...we are not to put our money out to gain interest and yet it is perfectly acceptable in modern times . It was not acceptable to the Jews nor was it acceptable to early Christians . Love compels us to give and we delight in giving. Giving IS the reward and hopefully it will help someone in need to the glory of God ! Hallelujah !
It shows how lost we have become in these days and that was the point of my comment . We are following the shifting sand of society and its laws and not the unchanging Rock . Thank you sister .

It was very acceptable for the Jews to plunder their nations around them but not each other. But not any longer if they are Messianic.
When Balaam tried to curse God's people he was not able so sex tactics were brought in. But the outcome of that was a sword thru them both, male and female. Like a horse and carriage one is not exempt from the other.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We are following the shifting sand of society and its laws and not the unchanging Rock .

"We" in Christ ARE NOT following the wickednesses of society. (those who used to repented, and those who are need to repent as Jesus says).

Society is and has always been wrong.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So do we trust the name that the Bible gives us as THE NAME? Or, do we foolishly follow another name that scripture does not give us?

Just like in Athens, or worse, like in sodom/gomorrah // days of Noah.

YHVH'S Ekklesia follow YHVH / Yahshua (Jesus).

Everyone else follows another. (like we all once did, before being redeemed)

 

[NeedyFollower]

Interesting.... Jesus was a Jew who kept the law. Did he keep it so that you can sin? Or did he keep it because keeping it and dying without sin meant he could reverse the curse of death? We are not saved by works... but the saved work for faith without works is dead. That is fact... whether you agree or not is between you and God but that is what Scripture states. The only question is... did he die so you could sin because sin is the breaking of the law.

We are warned repeatedly that there will be lawlessness in the end times and I don't for a minute think the reference is to SECULAR law. I think it is clearly a reference to God's law. So, on one hand I am saying we keep it but not to be saved, we keep it because God desires us to walk according to His will not ours. And we have others saying grace is so sufficient that we no longer need to obey. The problem is, again.. that is by definition lawlessness and we have been warned.

And... if you really want to go and include me in groups like Jehovah's Witnesses or Bahai'.... groups you likely align to being bound to hell... then do you really want me to walk through the Anabaptist history and bring the things out that will cause you to think twice? Do you REALLY think every doctrine you adhere to is without blemish?

Ken ..I did not answer a question you asked. Do I really think every doctrine I adhere to is without blemish ? No , of course not and while I am accountable for every thing, my hope is not in me if that makes sense ..my hope is the same as yours !!! And regarding JW , Bahai' , etc. I do NOT put you in those groups but every INDIVIDUAL is in danger from that same spirit of being special ..more righteous because we do or believe XYZ ....we are ALL in danger but again ironically , only the zealous ...you are familiar with the reformation ...Luther was obviously right regarding indulgences and the apostasy of the roman church but wrong in other things I believe and look what it caused ...rebellion and bloodshed . So it is not my intent to include any group in any thing but to advise caution. 2nd timothy chapter 3 talks about the state of the church in the last days but we are also told that those who compare themselves amongst themselves are not wise .

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

look what it caused ...rebellion and bloodshed

hmmm......
look what it caused......

look how JESUS was treated , if only HE had stayed quiet !?!? (NO!)
If JESUS taught like most priests, pastors, teachers, prophets, groups today,
HE never would have been crucified, would HE have been !?

All of Those Who teach as JESUS taught, Who speak the Father's Word,
get treated the same as JESUS was treated !

The sheep are being slaughtered all day long , every day.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

hmmm......
look what it caused......

look how JESUS was treated , if only HE had stayed quiet !?!? (NO!)
If JESUS taught like most priests, pastors, teachers, prophets, groups today,
HE never would have been crucified, would HE have been !?

All of Those Who teach as JESUS taught, Who speak the Father's Word,
get treated the same as JESUS was treated !

The sheep are being slaughtered all day long , every day.

Act
My Bible tells me that it is the name of Jesus that is fought against by "religious" leaders.
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Acts 4:17 But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.

18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

 

[NeedyFollower]

hmmm......
look what it caused......

look how JESUS was treated , if only HE had stayed quiet !?!? (NO!)
If JESUS taught like most priests, pastors, teachers, prophets, groups today,
HE never would have been crucified, would HE have been !?

All of Those Who teach as JESUS taught, Who speak the Father's Word,
get treated the same as JESUS was treated !

The sheep are being slaughtered all day long , every day.

Yes brother ..I was sharing the exact thing with a brother today ..if Jesus had only fed the multitudes , healed the sick , etc. He would not have made such enemies as He did ..but speaking truth is what will get one crucified ..not only speaking truth but doing truth will also get you cast out of the "synagoue " or get you killed ( literally or reputationally ) Jesus was called crazy by His own family. Cain slew Able because he offered a better sacrifice ..the same reason Jesus was killed although of course He willingly endured the cross for the joy ( of our salvation ) set before Him . The challenge for me anyways is to maintain a spirit of meekness when speaking truth ...and to make sure it is from LOVE ....For it is not MY truth so I should not act like I discovered it , died for it , etc What do we have that was not given ? May God help me to glorify Him and His most precious gift ..His Son ..Our Lord Jesus . It is good hearing from you again brother ..May we all be given to prayer for each other .