The Atonement

Brightfame52

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Firstly, the historical Christian belief has always been unlimited atonement. Secondly I don't understand what you mean by saying I don't believe in the saving efficacy of the blood of Christ, so I can't respond to that.
I dont care about all that, you between a roch and hard place.
 
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Brightfame52

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zoidar

Secondly I don't understand what you mean by saying I don't believe in the saving efficacy of the blood of Christ, so I can't respond to that.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that statement. You believe people Christ died for, still can go to hell lost in their sins. That means His Death had no saving efficacy.
 
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zoidar

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zoidar



It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that statement. You believe people Christ died for, still can go to hell lost in their sins. That means His Death had no saving efficacy.
Not unless you have faith. If Christ death had saving efficacy on the elect before they had faith, why would they need faith to be saved? Faith seems then pretty pointless in the saving sense.
 
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Brightfame52

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Not unless you have faith. If Christ death had saving efficasy on the elect before they had faith, why would they need faith to be saved? Faith seems then pretty pointless in the saving sense.
Right you contribute efficacy to save to faith, and not to Christ. I contribute saving efficacy to Christs death and faith is a fruit of that. Thats the difference between you and I.
 
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zoidar

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Right you contribute efficacy to save to faith, and not to Christ. I contribute saving efficacy to Christs death and faith is a fruit of that. Thats the difference between you and I.
Ah, thanks for explaining! I don't see that Biblically or from experience, but you are free to hold that view.
 
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bling

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Its limited in that God only purposed by it, to save His Elect. His Purpose limited it.
You might do good to read my post 17.
The "efficiency" of Christ's cruel torture, humiliation and murder is there. Those kidnappers, who refuse to accept this unbelievably huge ransom deserve to go to hell and be annihilated, but Christ did His part in the offer of Himself.
God is forgiving everyone, but few there seems are willing to humble themselves to the point of accepting that charitable forgiveness as pure charity.
 
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Brightfame52

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You might do good to read my post 17.
The "efficiency" of Christ's cruel torture, humiliation and murder is there. Those kidnappers, who refuse to accept this unbelievably huge ransom deserve to go to hell and be annihilated, but Christ did His part in the offer of Himself.
God is forgiving everyone, but few there seems are willing to humble themselves to the point of accepting that charitable forgiveness as pure charity.
Again God has chosen only to save some from their sins. A Person cant humble himself before God until after God saves them by His Grace.
 
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bling

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Again God has chosen only to save some from their sins. A Person cant humble himself before God until after God saves them by His Grace.
No, quit blaming God for those who are lost, by saying God is to blame for not choosing them.

Luke 14:11 For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

This verse contradicts what you are saying, because Christ is saying “those who exalt themselves” obvious sinners will be humbled, so all those sinners who are exalting themselves will be humble sometime in the future without becoming Christians or saved is the idea.

The prodigal son was humbled by the situation he got himself into and his salvation came after his returning to the father.

Anyone can be humbled, but some will fight it to their death.
 
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Brightfame52

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No, quit blaming God for those who are lost, by saying God is to blame for not choosing them.

Luke 14:11 For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

This verse contradicts what you are saying, because Christ is saying “those who exalt themselves” obvious sinners will be humbled, so all those sinners who are exalting themselves will be humble sometime in the future without becoming Christians or saved is the idea.

The prodigal son was humbled by the situation he got himself into and his salvation came after his returning to the father.

Anyone can be humbled, but some will fight it to their death.
Being humble is the fruit of the new birth, men by nature we arent humble, but proud, which is a fruit of the flesh Mark 7:21-23

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Rom 1:29-31

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful
2 Tim 3:2

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
 
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GodsGrace101

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Being humble is the fruit of the new birth, men by nature we arent humble, but proud, which is a fruit of the flesh Mark 7:21-23

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Rom 1:29-31

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful
2 Tim 3:2

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Same old nonsense.

@bling is posting good verses.
Read them.

Jesus said we humble OURSELVES.
Doesn't sound like God is forcing His will on us, does it?

It sounds like man acting of his very own free will. But you refuse to accept it
Sounds like the blindness you speak of.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Again God has chosen only to save some from their sins. A Person cant humble himself before God until after God saves them by His Grace.
Again...
Jesus said we humble ourselves.
Luke 14:11

Don't you trust what Jesus says?
 
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Brightfame52

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Same old nonsense.

@bling is posting good verses.
Read them.

Jesus said we humble OURSELVES.
Doesn't sound like God is forcing His will on us, does it?

It sounds like man acting of his very own free will. But you refuse to accept it
Sounds like the blindness you speak of.
The natural man isn't and can't be humble. In fact he is dead to God and any and all spiritual obedience commanded.
 
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Brightfame52

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Again...
Jesus said we humble ourselves.
Luke 14:11

Don't you trust what Jesus says?
Again...
Jesus said we humble ourselves.
Luke 14:11

Don't you trust what Jesus says?
There is no spiritual obedience until Spiritual life has been imparted, until then men are dead to God, dead in sin !
 
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GodsGrace101

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There is no spiritual obedience until Spiritual life has been imparted, until then men are dead to God, dead in sin !
I've come to the conclusion that you're unable to THINK.
You just keep repeating like a parrot instead of explaining what is being discussed.
However, I will keep making comments when I notice how hard your heart is.
 
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bling

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Being humble is the fruit of the new birth, men by nature we arent humble, but proud, which is a fruit of the flesh Mark 7:21-23

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Rom 1:29-31

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful
2 Tim 3:2

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Yes, sinners are prideful and proud, but that does not mean they cannot also become humble, at some later time. If they have to be born again to be humble than Luke 14:11 For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” all those the exalt themselves will be born again so they can be humble which means: "universal salvation", so is that what you believe?
 
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Brightfame52

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I've come to the conclusion that you're unable to THINK.
You just keep repeating like a parrot instead of explaining what is being discussed.
However, I will keep making comments when I notice how hard your heart is.
Figure, all you have is insults now.
 
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Brightfame52

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Yes, sinners are prideful and proud, but that does not mean they cannot also become humble, at some later time. If they have to be born again to be humble than Luke 14:11 For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” all those the exalt themselves will be born again so they can be humble which means: "universal salvation", so is that what you believe?
Only way a sinner can become humble is by a new birth, a new nature. Man naturally isnt subject to God Rom 8:7-8
. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

vs 9 is the only way

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his
 
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