The Ark of the Covenant

[Wildfire]

Is the discovery of the lost Ark part of the prophecy in the last days? I have been concerned over the digging that is taking place beneath the Temple Mount (where the Muslem site sits) and what they (the Palestine government) are looking for.

<If> the Ark of the Covenant was found, and given over to the Islamic hands, can we as Christians, imagine how horrible that would be?

When ye shall see the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth let him understand):
Then let them which be in Judae flee unto the mountains...

*For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignition against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the <sanctuary of strength> and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
And such as do wickedly against the <covenant> shall he corrupt by flatteries; but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself abover every God, and shall speak marvelous things against the God of Gods, and shall prosper till the indignition be accomplished: and that that is determined shall be done.
Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, not the desire of women, nor regard any God: for he shall magnify himself above all.
But in his estate shall he honour the God of <forces>: and a God whom his fathers knew not shall he honour, with Gold and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a <strange God> whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

Having the ark of the Covenant in the wrong hands could greatly signify this (in my own opinion). I could see the <disgusting thing> that is spoken of in the bible, happen to the covenant, if it were found by the Islamic religion.
Scary, yes. But is this thought impossible?

Wildfire

 

[NumberOneSon]

I've heard rumors that a Coptic Church in Africa already has it in their possession (although they don't let other people varify that it).

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[Wildfire]

Interesting Acts; do you agree that having the Ark would be a valuable power play among religions? I guess what I'm getting at, is if the Ark is buried somewhere beneath the temple mount, and that is why it is secretly being torn apart; wouldn't this have some impact on prophecy? How long has it been, since anyone has even seen the Ark of the Covenant....?
I will have to search around the web for info on this; but I started this thread with the belief that there may be a connection with the temple mount and the lost covenant.
(?)
Wildfire

 

[Sayci]

First of all why should we fear, if that happens. God is still controlling the universe, we don't have to worry about what will happen because he is controlling it. If someone is trying to find it or has it now; Is not our problem. If you have a certain way you want it go, you need to look at it. I believe that if we are in doubt of something we should pray for the LORD'S will to be done and just accept that he will take care of it. ...For all things work out for the good of those who love him... Romans 8:28 Care to discuss it over e-mail? No promotion of e-mail ads, thank you

 

[Willis Deal]

I believe the ark of the covenant will be found but from the bible I can only find one verse that even hints of such a thing. It is possible that a replica will be made to take the place of the ark but I believe the actual ark will be found. If I am correct there is really no need to worry because it will end up in the temple and in possession of the jews.

 

[Wildfire]

thanks--I did some reading on this and did find that there is a split in belief of where the actual ark could be hidden. Some think it is in Ethiopia, where the book of Enoch was found and others believe it is definately beneath the temple mount. (which would explain all of the digging and destruction going on)
Just by putting it all together with the book of Daniel, and an incredible display of blasphemy, it led me to think that the covenant could be used in a corrupt way. I sure would like to read that scripture you referred to Willis, and God has the Ark hidden, then it is true that it won't be found.
Wildfire

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Wildfire

Having the ark of the Covenant in the wrong hands could greatly signify this (in my own opinion). I could see the &lt;disgusting thing&gt; that is spoken of in the bible, happen to the covenant, if it were found by the Islamic religion.
Scary, yes. But is this thought impossible?

Wildfire

Hi Wildfire, Do I think it impossible for the ark to be found? No.
Do I think it possible for the finding of the ark to have any end time prophetic significance? No...but I reckon you already knew that about me, and that discussion is for another thread anyway.

One thing you did mention has me puzzled however.
Aren't we under the "new covenant" today? Didn't God Himself declare the Old Covenant once and for all time "obsolete"? (Heb 8:13)

What damage could the Islamic religion (or anyone) possibly do by posessing the ark of the "obsolete" covenant?, likewise, what good can be gained by the "right people" possessing that ark? (is salvation available through posessing the ark?)

Hope I didn't "ruin" your thread, but these are honest questions I have concerning any future application of the ark of the obsolete covenant.

Thanks in Christ,
P70

 

[davo]

Hey guys, you're all assuming the Ark was lost -was it? If it was I know who found it -the apostle John:

Revelation 11:19 "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the Ark of His Covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm."

There it is, in Heaven -if you believe inspired John. So you can stop worrying

davo

 

[Phoenix]

This guys been denounced as a fraud by a lot of people, but give this article a read, interesting stuff:

http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/ark.htm

 

[Phoenix]

One more link just for fun .. i should have posted this one instead:

http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/ark.html

 

[Wildfire]

Hi Phoenix, no you didn't ruin the discussion, I am interested in hearing everyones point of view, including yours. The links you offered were quite interesting, thanks!

As for your proposed question; I think that <if> the Ark of the covenant that was given to Moses, fell into the wrong hands, (ex: Islam) it could be blasphemous because of what they (a religion that does not believe in God) might do with it. The damage would be an upsurge of more violence, more killing, more war. I believe it would be a tragedy to all Christians, to see something that is so sacred and holy, become polluted or defaced or mocked because of hatred.

I am only throwing the question out there, because I believe it is a possibility that this could happen.

Suppose that it did: CNN often shows footage of various Middle East countries and those who fill the streets, chanting with fever and hatred towards Israel and America.

I could see that getting tossed around terribly.

Wildfire

 

[Phoenix]

I think you should be addressing Parousia70 Wildfire .. I only posted the links and asked no questions. Interesting stuff eh ?

 

[davo]

G'day Wildfire How do you feel about the Ark already being in Heaven -is that worth considering

davo

 

[Wildfire]

Hi Davo, no, to be honest I had not considered that. Upon reading your quoted scripture above, do you know how or when the Ark had ascended into heaven? I would be interested in learning more about that.

(I had always believed it to be hidden in the earth).

Also, what are your thoughts on Daniels prophecy about the end times and the polluting of the Lords covenant, and/or abomination of desolation? Do you believe this to be a place (Jerusalem) or holy symbol (ark of covenant) or something other?
Curious,
Wildfire

 

[Willis Deal]

davo,

The earthly temple, ark, etc. were copies of heavenly things. The ark seen in Rev is the heavenly ark of which the earthly ark was a copy. In other words, Moses ark was a physical symbol of the true ark in heaven.

 

[davo]

Originally posted by Willis Deal
davo,

The earthly temple, ark, etc. were copies of heavenly things. The ark seen in Rev is the heavenly ark of which the earthly ark was a copy. In other words, Moses ark was a physical symbol of the true ark in heaven.

Willis, that's a fair enough response. I would say that all the "earthly" counterparts are gone -destroyed in the AD 70 destruction. Thoughts of where "it" might be are in my opinion boardering more on Holliwood and speculation -like I said IMO.


Wildfire:
As for Daniel's "time of the end" scenario, You may not agree me [and I don't need for you to agree] -but seeing as you have asked, I would say this:

The polluting 'abomonation that makes desolate' was the JEWISH zealots etc that attacked and over-ran the Temple just prior to the Roman invasion and destruction. It was the depravity of the Jewish civil war that finally prompted Titus to "finish them off." This actually is what Lk 21:20-22 speaks of -the surrounding armies was the Jewish conflagation. When the Christians saw this happening "this" was the signal for them to flee [in accordance with Jesus' words]. Just after this was when the Romans hit and NO-ONE escaped. [check out Josephus -it's not inspired Scripture, however it is a valuable critical historical source. And importantly NOT christian]

Does that make any sense?

davo

 

[Willis Deal]

Yet another abomination of desolation was performed by Antiochus Epiphanes when he urinated in the temple and sacrificed a pig. As in Davo's example this is not found in the bible but from secular sources. Lots of information on Antiochus on the web if you care to look.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Originally posted by Wildfire


&lt;If&gt; the Ark of the Covenant was found, and given over to the Islamic hands, can we as Christians, imagine how horrible that would be?


Having the ark of the Covenant in the wrong hands could greatly signify this (in my own opinion). I could see the &lt;disgusting thing&gt; that is spoken of in the bible, happen to the covenant, if it were found by the Islamic religion.
Scary, yes. But is this thought impossible?

Wildfire

Hello Wildfire,
Nice to hear from you again!! This is a very interesting subject. Solomon had an exact copy made, incase Israel fell into enemy hands. One thing though about that arc of the covenant, if anyone tried to touch it, that was not from the tribe of Levi, he would fall dead as soon as he touched it. So, if the Palestinians are foolish enough to touch it, I wish I could be there to see them try. No dice!! But I doubt if that is what they are looking for. They are probably up to no good, like planning some kind of an underground explosion, or another act of terror. But I would assume that they would not want Israel to get their hands on it either, because then Israel would have some heavy evidence that Israel truely was in that land first, which would expose the Palestinians lies. Either the arc or it's copy is said to be under the temple mount, and the other one Solomon ordered it to be taken to Ethiopia.

 

[Wildfire]

HI Rollin, wow I didn't know that <others> could die by touching the Ark (reminds me of that Indiana Jones movie!)yea; I am sure they are up to no good. There are supposingly tunnels underneath the temple mount; who knows maybe that is where that slimy Bin Laden is rotting?!
(wishful thinking huh?)
Wildfire

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Willis Deal
Yet another abomination of desolation was performed by Antiochus Epiphanes when he urinated in the temple and sacrificed a pig. As in Davo's example this is not found in the bible but from secular sources. Lots of information on Antiochus on the web if you care to look.

I can agree with that to a point, but Antiochus did not fulfill The AoD spoken of By Daniel the prophet.

You elude tot he fact that "Abomination of desolation" is a Hebrew expression, meaning an abominable or hateful destroyer. To the Jews, the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel brought to their minds the Assyrian ruler Antiochus Epiphanes.

Josephus said of Antiochus Epiphanes, "He also spoiled the temple, and put a stop to the constant practice of offering a daily sacrifice of expiation for three years and six months.....he compelled the Jews to dissolve the laws of their country, and to keep their infants uncircumcised, and to sacrifice swine's flesh upon the alter" (Josephus, vol. 1, pp. 10-11).

According to Jewish history recorded in the Apocrypha, the AoD passages in Daniel were fulfilled in the inter-testament period. Many today still see in these verses in Daniel, a reference to Antiochus but Jesus said in His day that the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel was yet future.

Dr. John A. Broadus said, "It is evident that our Lord interprets the prediction in Daniel as referring to the Messiah, and to that destruction of the city and temple which he is now foretelling; and His interpretation is authoritative for us."

I agree.

Jesus bypassed any declared fulfillment in Antiochus Epiphanes and interpreted the prophecy as relating to the events at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Antiochus could very have well qualified as an AoD, but Christ's authoritative interpratation of Daniel prevents Antiochus from fulfilling any part of "Daniel's" AoD.