The arguments for ancient animal sacrifice

fosquirrels

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When I joined Christianity, I presumed that the religion did not have anything to do with animal sacrifice; having learned more about it, including the fact that Jesus himself encouraged a leper to bring two birds to a priest for sacrifice, I am now reconsidering a great deal of things about the religion. I would like to discuss whether animal sacrifice in both the Old Testament and New Testament was a good thing and whether God would appreciate it.

To begin with, one must ask why God would want animals to be sacrificed. The only information I could find in the Bible is given in Leviticus 1:9, which mentions that burnt flesh has a “pleasing aroma” to the Lord. As God is above sensual pleasure, one presumes that this is not the reason God would have wanted sacrifices.

The standard explanation for why God would want sacrifices, which is nevertheless not found in the Bible to my knowledge, is that they constitute substitutionary atonement for sin, i.e. because the punishment for sin is death, the killing of an innocent creature placates God’s wraith, which would normally fall on the sinner, and thus the sacrificial victim “takes” the punishment intended for the sinner, and the sinner is forgiven. This explanation is false for several reasons.

For starters, we assume that killing an innocent creature is wrong and, therefore, sinful. If someone commits a sinful act, and then decides to kill an innocent creature to “atone” for that sinful act, they are in fact not atoning but committing another sinful act. Imagine for a moment a thief being prosecuted for his crimes; he decides, in front of the judge, to pull out a knife, stab a pigeon to death and hand it over to the judge, then tell the judge that in exchange for killing that pigeon, he can get to walk free. Not only would he continue to be prosecuted for theft, he would also be charged for cruelty to animals.

There is also the matter that the punishment for sin is supposedly death, ostensibly because God hates sin. However, God possesses a flawless sense of justice. To perform justice is arguably to either destroy evil or reform it, for the sake of preventing further evil from manifesting (this is admittedly debatable, as various people will have different concepts of justice). Punishment is only something one does for retribution and for practical reasons, and is not in itself just; legal punishment is carried out, in theory, to deter other people from pursuing crimes. Punishment provides no benefit unless it serves to prevent further evil, and if an ox is killed instead of the sinner, the loss incurred by this does not make the sinner any less likely to commit further evil than, say, charging him a fine equivalent to the price of the ox for the sin.

If the pro-sacrifice argument is that God specifically demands death as the punishment for sin, the counter-argument is still that punishing an innocent creature for the wrongs of another creature is itself wrong. In the above example of the thief, who is to receive a death sentence, it would be like the thief telling the judge to pass the sentence onto a pigeon instead. The judge would not display justice at all if he did that!

God does not demand sacrifices to sate His wraith. A perfectly just individual is, in theory, immune to wraith, as it does not bias his assessment of right and wrong. He would not feel wraith when going against evil, but simply recognize that the target of his enmity was evil and oppose it for that reason.

Because God is perfectly loving, He cares about innocent creatures and does not want them to be hurt; hurting an innocent creature in His name thus goes against His desires.

Also because He is perfectly loving, He is able to forgive sins without demanding the murder of animals in exchange for it.

It seems that for God to approve of animal sacrifices, he would have to be either unjust or unloving. If I’m wrong about this, then please provide your arguments. What motives would God have to approve of animal sacrifice?
 

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Greetings,

Who has first given to me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is mine. —Job 41:11

They belong to Him. He has the authority to sanction their use for sacrifices. They’re His creation.

~Bella
 
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dzheremi

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Animal sacrifice was necessary within the Jewish understanding of the covenant. With the coming of Christ, those who follow Him do not understand things in that same way. Christ's command that the man bring animals to sacrifice was in keeping with His fulfillment of the law of Moses (Christ being a Jew and all), but now that it is fulfilled in Him, such things are not necessary.

I reckon that it is impossible to pray the Psalms and come away with the idea that they are necessary anyway, as it is written therein (Psalm 51:16-17; Western numbering):

For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

+++

The law of Moses does not bound us, because we are in Christ Who has fulfilled (not discarded) it. What could the sacrifice of an animal for any reason do for us that Christ's own willing sacrifice did not already do?
 
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Albion

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The idea of sacrificing animals for a religious purpose is worth exploring, but when it is presented as a matter of "innocent" creatures and that he "does not want them to be hurt"...there is no question but that we are dealing with a mistaken POV.

God has created all of nature for the benefit of mankind. We are to be good stewards of it, of course, but look at whom Jesus chose for his closest associates--fishermen. He helped them get fish as well as feeding 5000 people with fish on another occasion! And the Bible gives us a number of similar accounts.
 
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St_Worm2

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Hello @fosquirrels. First off, I see this is your first post, so WELCOME TO CF :wave:

The book of Hebrews tells us two very important things in regard to this topic.

Hebrews 9
22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.

Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

That said, here is a short article from our friends at GotQuestions.org that provides a pretty good explanation (there are additional articles of interest there as well, just FYI).

Question: "Why did God require animal sacrifices in the Old Testament?"

Answer:
God required animal sacrifices to provide a temporary covering of sins and to foreshadow the perfect and complete sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Leviticus 4:35, 5:10). Animal sacrifice is an important theme found throughout Scripture because “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22). When Adam and Eve sinned, animals were killed by God to provide clothing for them (Genesis 3:21). Cain and Abel brought sacrifices to the Lord. Cain's was unacceptable because he brought fruit, while Abel's was acceptable because it was the “firstborn of his flock” (Genesis 4:4-5). After the flood receded, Noah sacrificed animals to God (Genesis 8:20-21).

God commanded the nation of Israel to perform numerous sacrifices according to certain procedures prescribed by God. First, the animal had to be spotless. Second, the person offering the sacrifice had to identify with the animal. Third, the person offering the animal had to inflict death upon it. When done in faith, this sacrifice provided a temporary covering of sins. Another sacrifice called for on the Day of Atonement, described in Leviticus 16, demonstrates forgiveness and the removal of sin. The high priest was to take two male goats for a sin offering. One of the goats was sacrificed as a sin offering for the people of Israel (Leviticus 16:15), while the other goat was released into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:20-22). The sin offering provided forgiveness, while the other goat provided the removal of sin.

Why, then, do we no longer offer animal sacrifices today? Animal sacrifices have ended because Jesus Christ was the ultimate and perfect sacrifice. John the Baptist recognized this when he saw Jesus coming to be baptized and said, “Look, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29). You may be asking yourself, why animals? What did they do wrong? That is the point—since the animals did no wrong, they died in place of the one performing the sacrifice. Jesus Christ also did no wrong but willingly gave Himself to die for the sins of mankind (1 Timothy 2:6). Jesus Christ took our sin upon Himself and died in our place. As 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “God made him [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” Through faith in what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross, we can receive forgiveness.

In summation, animal sacrifices were commanded by God so that the individual could experience forgiveness of sin. The animal served as a substitute—that is, the animal died in place of the sinner, but only temporarily, which is why the sacrifices needed to be offered over and over. Animal sacrifices have stopped with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the ultimate sacrificial substitute once for all time (Hebrews 7:27) and is now the only mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5). Animal sacrifices foreshadowed Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf. The only basis on which an animal sacrifice could provide forgiveness of sins is Christ who would sacrifice Himself for our sins, providing the forgiveness that animal sacrifices could only illustrate and foreshadow.

~Why did God require animal sacrifices in the Old Testament? | GotQuestions.org

There is more to talk about in your OP, but I think I'll stop here for now anyway.

--David

Romans 5
8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

.
 
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fosquirrels

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They belong to Him. He has the authority to sanction their use for sacrifices. They’re His creation.

Authority, as I understand it, determines whose volition a given person should obey. If He has the authority to sanction sacrifices, that implies the animals in question should obey Him and accept being sacrificed. Is this what you mean?

But if the decision to sacrifice the animals is morally wrong, which is what I have argued, then obeying that decision is itself morally wrong, and so the decision should not be obeyed, which by my definition of authority means God does not have the authority to sanction their use for sacrifices. Is my definition of authority incorrect here? Were my arguments that sacrificing the animals is morally wrong incorrect?

Also, the fact that God is their creator (or, more accurately, their ancestors' creator, since He did not create the sacrificial animals themselves but rather their own parents did) does not mean that He has the right to order their killing. If He had that right, then your own grandparents would likewise have the right to order your killing.

Animal sacrifice was necessary within the Jewish understanding of the covenant.
What was it necessary for?

The idea of sacrificing animals for a religious purpose is worth exploring, but when it is presented as a matter of "innocent" creatures that he does not want to have be hurt...then there is no doubt that that is a mistaken POV. God has created all of nature for the benefit of mankind.
Do you believe, then, that morality and the concept of innocence do not apply to non-human animals?

All things are cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.
Why would this be the case, though? There are plenty of situations where people forgive each other without shedding of blood. Why would God not be able to forgive the same way?
 
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Albion

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Do you believe, then, that morality and the concept of innocence do not apply to non-human animals?
1. I do not think of God's creation of Man as amounting to the creation of just one more animal species, no. I take the Biblical view instead.

2. No, the concepts of morality and innocence as they apply to humans do not apply in the same way to animals. Again, I take the Biblical view as referred to in my previous post. This does not mean that conservation of nature and mitigating the suffering of any animal is not important, though.

Why would this be the case, though? There are plenty of situations where people forgive each other without shedding of blood. Why would God not be able to forgive the same way?
As I also said, sacrifices for religious purposes and the notion of humans being on the same level as animals are two different matters.
 
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dqhall

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When I joined Christianity, I presumed that the religion did not have anything to do with animal sacrifice; having learned more about it, including the fact that Jesus himself encouraged a leper to bring two birds to a priest for sacrifice, I am now reconsidering a great deal of things about the religion. I would like to discuss whether animal sacrifice in both the Old Testament and New Testament was a good thing and whether God would appreciate it.

To begin with, one must ask why God would want animals to be sacrificed. The only information I could find in the Bible is given in Leviticus 1:9, which mentions that burnt flesh has a “pleasing aroma” to the Lord. As God is above sensual pleasure, one presumes that this is not the reason God would have wanted sacrifices.

The standard explanation for why God would want sacrifices, which is nevertheless not found in the Bible to my knowledge, is that they constitute substitutionary atonement for sin, i.e. because the punishment for sin is death, the killing of an innocent creature placates God’s wraith, which would normally fall on the sinner, and thus the sacrificial victim “takes” the punishment intended for the sinner, and the sinner is forgiven. This explanation is false for several reasons.

For starters, we assume that killing an innocent creature is wrong and, therefore, sinful. If someone commits a sinful act, and then decides to kill an innocent creature to “atone” for that sinful act, they are in fact not atoning but committing another sinful act. Imagine for a moment a thief being prosecuted for his crimes; he decides, in front of the judge, to pull out a knife, stab a pigeon to death and hand it over to the judge, then tell the judge that in exchange for killing that pigeon, he can get to walk free. Not only would he continue to be prosecuted for theft, he would also be charged for cruelty to animals.

There is also the matter that the punishment for sin is supposedly death, ostensibly because God hates sin. However, God possesses a flawless sense of justice. To perform justice is arguably to either destroy evil or reform it, for the sake of preventing further evil from manifesting (this is admittedly debatable, as various people will have different concepts of justice). Punishment is only something one does for retribution and for practical reasons, and is not in itself just; legal punishment is carried out, in theory, to deter other people from pursuing crimes. Punishment provides no benefit unless it serves to prevent further evil, and if an ox is killed instead of the sinner, the loss incurred by this does not make the sinner any less likely to commit further evil than, say, charging him a fine equivalent to the price of the ox for the sin.

If the pro-sacrifice argument is that God specifically demands death as the punishment for sin, the counter-argument is still that punishing an innocent creature for the wrongs of another creature is itself wrong. In the above example of the thief, who is to receive a death sentence, it would be like the thief telling the judge to pass the sentence onto a pigeon instead. The judge would not display justice at all if he did that!

God does not demand sacrifices to sate His wraith. A perfectly just individual is, in theory, immune to wraith, as it does not bias his assessment of right and wrong. He would not feel wraith when going against evil, but simply recognize that the target of his enmity was evil and oppose it for that reason.

Because God is perfectly loving, He cares about innocent creatures and does not want them to be hurt; hurting an innocent creature in His name thus goes against His desires.

Also because He is perfectly loving, He is able to forgive sins without demanding the murder of animals in exchange for it.

It seems that for God to approve of animal sacrifices, he would have to be either unjust or unloving. If I’m wrong about this, then please provide your arguments. What motives would God have to approve of animal sacrifice?
Jesus tipped over the tables of those selling doves, sacrificial animals and the tables of the money changers in the temple. He reminded them of a quote from Hosea 6:6, “I desired mercy and not sacrifice.” If Jesus asked this man healed of leprosy to offer the doves for his cleansing, it was because of the Torah law requiring such an offering. Jesus got death threats for not observing Sabbath law in the way dictated by the teachers of the law and for calling God his father.

It was Christians who banned animal sacrifice that was prevalent in the Roman Empire and earlier civilizations. Christians also banned gladiator fights to the death in the coliseum.
 
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St_Worm2

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... why God would want animals to be sacrificed. The only information I could find in the Bible is given in Leviticus 1:9, which mentions that burnt flesh has a “pleasing aroma” to the Lord.

This may be helpful. The Lord said:

Leviticus 17
11 The life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.

--David
 
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St_Worm2

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God does not demand sacrifices to satisfy His wrath. A perfectly just individual is, in theory, immune to wrath........
Hello again Fosquirrels, as you've already seen, God demands the shedding of blood to atone for (satisfy/pay the price for) our sins against Him to be forgiven.

As for your thought about "perfectly just individuals" being immune from God's wrath, I agree with you. Unfortunately, there is still a practical problem with that idea that must be dealt with, and this is it:

Romans 3 (Psalm 14:1-3)
9 We have already charged that both Jews and Greeks [Gentiles] are all under sin;
10 as it is written,
“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

Romans 3
23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

So, there are no perfectly just individuals in the human race but, unfortunately, that is exactly what we need to be (perfectly innocent* and perfectly righteous**) to stand before our holy God and live. So the $64,000 question is, how can we, as a race full of sinners, do that (IOW, how can we become what we are not, innocent and righteous) :scratch:

--David

2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.



*Innocent - means never doing anything wrong, never disobeying God's will, ever.

**Righteous - means never failing to do what is right, always doing all of God's will for our life.

.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Authority, as I understand it, determines whose volition a given person should obey. If He has the authority to sanction sacrifices, that implies the animals in question should obey Him and accept being sacrificed. Is this what you mean?

But if the decision to sacrifice the animals is morally wrong, which is what I have argued, then obeying that decision is itself morally wrong, and so the decision should not be obeyed, which by my definition of authority means God does not have the authority to sanction their use for sacrifices. Is my definition of authority incorrect here? Were my arguments that sacrificing the animals is morally wrong incorrect?

Also, the fact that God is their creator (or, more accurately, their ancestors' creator, since He did not create the sacrificial animals themselves but rather their own parents did) does not mean that He has the right to order their killing. If He had that right, then your own grandparents would likewise have the right to order your killing.


What was it necessary for?


Do you believe, then, that morality and the concept of innocence do not apply to non-human animals?


Why would this be the case, though? There are plenty of situations where people forgive each other without shedding of blood. Why would God not be able to forgive the same way?

On what do you base your contention that sacrificing animals is morally wrong?
Reproduction and creation are two very different things.
Animals do not recognize any form of morality AFAIK.
 
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St_Worm2

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Hello again @fosquirrels, I just found another article @GotQuestions.org that should prove to be helpful to you as well.

Why did the sacrificial system require a blood sacrifice?

The whole of the Old Testament, every book, points toward the Great Sacrifice that was to come—that of Jesus’ sacrificial giving of His own life on our behalf. Leviticus 17:11 is the Old Testament’s central statement about the significance of blood in the sacrificial system. God, speaking to Moses, declares: “For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.”

A “sacrifice” is defined as the offering up of something precious for a cause or a reason. Making atonement is satisfying someone or something for an offense committed. The Leviticus verse can be read more clearly now: God said, “I have given it to you (the creature’s life, which is in its blood) to make atonement for yourselves (covering the offense you have committed against Me).” In other words, those who are covered by the blood sacrifice are set free from the consequences of sin.

Of course, the Israelites did not know of Jesus per se, or how He would die on their behalf and then rise again, but they did believe God would be sending them a Savior. All of the many, many blood sacrifices seen throughout the Old Testament were foreshadowing the true, once-for-all-time sacrifice to come so that the Israelites would never forget that, without the blood, there is no forgiveness. This shedding of blood is a substitutionary act. Therefore, the last clause of Leviticus 17:11 could be read either “the blood ‘makes atonement’ at the cost of the life” (i.e., the animal’s life) or “makes atonement in the place of the life” (i.e., the sinner’s life, with Jesus Christ being the One giving life through His shed blood).

Hebrews 9:11-18 confirms the symbolism of blood as life and applies Leviticus 17:11 to the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. Verse 12 states clearly that the Old Testament blood sacrifices were temporary and only atoned for sin partially and for a short time, hence the need to repeat the sacrifices yearly. But when Christ entered the Most Holy Place, He did so to offer His own blood once for all time, making future sacrifices unnecessary. This is what Jesus meant by His dying words on the cross: “It is finished” (John 19:30). Never again would the blood of bulls and goats cleanse men from their sin. Only by accepting Jesus’ blood, shed on the cross for the remission of sins, can we stand before God covered in the righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21).
--David

Isaiah 53
5 He was pierced through for ~our~ transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.

1 Peter 2
24 He Himself bore ~our~ sins in His body on the Cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

.
 
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eleos1954

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When I joined Christianity, I presumed that the religion did not have anything to do with animal sacrifice; having learned more about it, including the fact that Jesus himself encouraged a leper to bring two birds to a priest for sacrifice, I am now reconsidering a great deal of things about the religion. I would like to discuss whether animal sacrifice in both the Old Testament and New Testament was a good thing and whether God would appreciate it.

To begin with, one must ask why God would want animals to be sacrificed. The only information I could find in the Bible is given in Leviticus 1:9, which mentions that burnt flesh has a “pleasing aroma” to the Lord. As God is above sensual pleasure, one presumes that this is not the reason God would have wanted sacrifices.

The standard explanation for why God would want sacrifices, which is nevertheless not found in the Bible to my knowledge, is that they constitute substitutionary atonement for sin, i.e. because the punishment for sin is death, the killing of an innocent creature placates God’s wraith, which would normally fall on the sinner, and thus the sacrificial victim “takes” the punishment intended for the sinner, and the sinner is forgiven. This explanation is false for several reasons.



Overview of the sanctuary system.
For starters, we assume that killing an innocent creature is wrong and, therefore, sinful. If someone commits a sinful act, and then decides to kill an innocent creature to “atone” for that sinful act, they are in fact not atoning but committing another sinful act. Imagine for a moment a thief being prosecuted for his crimes; he decides, in front of the judge, to pull out a knife, stab a pigeon to death and hand it over to the judge, then tell the judge that in exchange for killing that pigeon, he can get to walk free. Not only would he continue to be prosecuted for theft, he would also be charged for cruelty to animals.

There is also the matter that the punishment for sin is supposedly death, ostensibly because God hates sin. However, God possesses a flawless sense of justice. To perform justice is arguably to either destroy evil or reform it, for the sake of preventing further evil from manifesting (this is admittedly debatable, as various people will have different concepts of justice). Punishment is only something one does for retribution and for practical reasons, and is not in itself just; legal punishment is carried out, in theory, to deter other people from pursuing crimes. Punishment provides no benefit unless it serves to prevent further evil, and if an ox is killed instead of the sinner, the loss incurred by this does not make the sinner any less likely to commit further evil than, say, charging him a fine equivalent to the price of the ox for the sin.

If the pro-sacrifice argument is that God specifically demands death as the punishment for sin, the counter-argument is still that punishing an innocent creature for the wrongs of another creature is itself wrong. In the above example of the thief, who is to receive a death sentence, it would be like the thief telling the judge to pass the sentence onto a pigeon instead. The judge would not display justice at all if he did that!

God does not demand sacrifices to sate His wraith. A perfectly just individual is, in theory, immune to wraith, as it does not bias his assessment of right and wrong. He would not feel wraith when going against evil, but simply recognize that the target of his enmity was evil and oppose it for that reason.

Because God is perfectly loving, He cares about innocent creatures and does not want them to be hurt; hurting an innocent creature in His name thus goes against His desires.

Also because He is perfectly loving, He is able to forgive sins without demanding the murder of animals in exchange for it.

It seems that for God to approve of animal sacrifices, he would have to be either unjust or unloving. If I’m wrong about this, then please provide your arguments. What motives would God have to approve of animal sacrifice?
 

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public hermit

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If the pro-sacrifice argument is that God specifically demands death as the punishment for sin

That's not the only way of looking at sacrifice. Here's another way of looking at it: Death is the consequence of sin. God created this world for the sake of life that flourishes in God's presence. Flourishing life glorifies God. Sin and evil, on the other hand, are by nature destructive of life. In this sense, death is not so much a punishment, but a consequence.

God cannot act as if sin and evil are life-giving. They are not. Sin and evil are death-dealing. So, in order to save life, God diverts the destructive consequences of sin and evil on to something other than the one being saved, i.e. on to the sacrifice. This is how God remains just and yet merciful, at the same time. God is just because God does not act as if sin and evil don't destroy. God is merciful in redeeming creation through sacrifice.

Also because He is perfectly loving, He is able to forgive sins without demanding the murder of animals in exchange for it.

God is not able to simply forgive sin, without in some way allowing the destructive nature of evil to be shown for what it is. Again, if evil destroys, then God can't act like it is good. In order for God to be true to God, God must treat evil as evil. So, the destructive consequences of sin and evil have to go somewhere. Ultimately God takes those consequences on to Himself in the person of the Son. This is a loving God. And, in so doing saves, not only humanity but creation itself (including animals). At any rate, the Sacrifice is raised first-the first fruit of the sacrifice. Everything else behind Him, or better "in Him."

Of course, what I have just said only offers an explanation for "Why a blood sacrifice?" Assuming you accept that explanation, your question about "Why animals?" still stands. The book of Hebrews argues that those animal sacrifices prefigured the one true sacrifice, Jesus Christ. The Hebrews explanation may not calm your issues concerning animal sacrifice, but hopefully this alternative way of understanding "Why blood sacrifice?" will be seen as better than simple divine fiat and punishment.
 
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Micah 6:6 With what shall I come before the Lord, And bow myself before the High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, With calves a year old? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, Ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God.
 
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St_Worm2

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Micah 6:6 With what shall I come before the Lord, And bow myself before the High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, With calves a year old? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, Ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God.
Hi Jack, that's right (of course ;)), the Lord does require us to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God.

~But~, what happens to us when we don't, when we inevitably fail to do what He requires of us and we sin against Him instead :scratch:

Micah wrote the passage you posited for us because of the hypocrisy that Israel was guilty of (of being outwardly religious while being inwardly sinful). He rightly told them what God, in light of His faithfulness to them, was truly interested in from them (see v8 again above), but whenever they disobeyed, sinned, and failed to do what the Lord required of them, a remedy for their sin was still necessary, just like it is for us today, yes?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - it seems to me that the passage above tells us that, apart from a humble, contrite and repentant heart, a sacrifice for our sins will be ineffectual. The problem with that is, an unconverted person is incapable of such things, of "doing justly, loving mercy, and/or walking humbly before our God", as such a thing can only be accomplished by a person who has come into possession of the Divine life that God offers us, by grace through faith, in Christ. So isn't this .. John 6:29 .. what God is really looking for from us?
 
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St_Worm2

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There are plenty of situations where people forgive each other without shedding of blood. Why would God not be able to forgive the same way?
Hi again Fosquirrels, because of our fallen nature, and because we live in fallen world where, "nobody's perfect", is our most common/universal saying, a peccadillo here and a peccadillo there seems like no big deal to us unfortunately.

But our holy God isn't like us, and all sin(s) are a BIG deal to Him, so much so that He chose to die rather than to live w/o us (or us w/o Him) in the eternity to come.

God the Father sent His only begotten Son to save us 1. from our sins on this side of the grave, and 2. from His Father's wrath on the other, because there was no other way to accomplish our salvation. God the Father loves His Son Jesus, and if there was any other way to save us (other than having Him die that horrible death on the Cross for us), He would have used it.

There is nothing pretty about our sins, and the cost that God was willing to pay for our atonement could not have been higher.

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - it is an interesting saying that we are saved "from God, by God, for God", but it is also very true :)

Romans 5
8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

.
 
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redleghunter

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When I joined Christianity, I presumed that the religion did not have anything to do with animal sacrifice; having learned more about it, including the fact that Jesus himself encouraged a leper to bring two birds to a priest for sacrifice, I am now reconsidering a great deal of things about the religion. I would like to discuss whether animal sacrifice in both the Old Testament and New Testament was a good thing and whether God would appreciate it.

To begin with, one must ask why God would want animals to be sacrificed. The only information I could find in the Bible is given in Leviticus 1:9, which mentions that burnt flesh has a “pleasing aroma” to the Lord. As God is above sensual pleasure, one presumes that this is not the reason God would have wanted sacrifices.

The standard explanation for why God would want sacrifices, which is nevertheless not found in the Bible to my knowledge, is that they constitute substitutionary atonement for sin, i.e. because the punishment for sin is death, the killing of an innocent creature placates God’s wraith, which would normally fall on the sinner, and thus the sacrificial victim “takes” the punishment intended for the sinner, and the sinner is forgiven. This explanation is false for several reasons.

For starters, we assume that killing an innocent creature is wrong and, therefore, sinful. If someone commits a sinful act, and then decides to kill an innocent creature to “atone” for that sinful act, they are in fact not atoning but committing another sinful act. Imagine for a moment a thief being prosecuted for his crimes; he decides, in front of the judge, to pull out a knife, stab a pigeon to death and hand it over to the judge, then tell the judge that in exchange for killing that pigeon, he can get to walk free. Not only would he continue to be prosecuted for theft, he would also be charged for cruelty to animals.

There is also the matter that the punishment for sin is supposedly death, ostensibly because God hates sin. However, God possesses a flawless sense of justice. To perform justice is arguably to either destroy evil or reform it, for the sake of preventing further evil from manifesting (this is admittedly debatable, as various people will have different concepts of justice). Punishment is only something one does for retribution and for practical reasons, and is not in itself just; legal punishment is carried out, in theory, to deter other people from pursuing crimes. Punishment provides no benefit unless it serves to prevent further evil, and if an ox is killed instead of the sinner, the loss incurred by this does not make the sinner any less likely to commit further evil than, say, charging him a fine equivalent to the price of the ox for the sin.

If the pro-sacrifice argument is that God specifically demands death as the punishment for sin, the counter-argument is still that punishing an innocent creature for the wrongs of another creature is itself wrong. In the above example of the thief, who is to receive a death sentence, it would be like the thief telling the judge to pass the sentence onto a pigeon instead. The judge would not display justice at all if he did that!

God does not demand sacrifices to sate His wraith. A perfectly just individual is, in theory, immune to wraith, as it does not bias his assessment of right and wrong. He would not feel wraith when going against evil, but simply recognize that the target of his enmity was evil and oppose it for that reason.

Because God is perfectly loving, He cares about innocent creatures and does not want them to be hurt; hurting an innocent creature in His name thus goes against His desires.

Also because He is perfectly loving, He is able to forgive sins without demanding the murder of animals in exchange for it.

It seems that for God to approve of animal sacrifices, he would have to be either unjust or unloving. If I’m wrong about this, then please provide your arguments. What motives would God have to approve of animal sacrifice?
God commanded animal sacrifices as part of the Mosaic covenant. It was a type and shadow of what would be fulfilled in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world.

It would be instructive to review Leviticus chapters 16 and 17. In chapter 16 we see the required sacrifices for the Day of Atonement. Pay close attention to the sacrifices to cleanse the high priest, the scapegoat and the atoning sacrifices. Jesus fulfills all these sacrifices and as the Perfect spotless lamb He is also our High Priest Who did not require cleansing.

In chapter 17 we see God proclaim “the life is in the blood” for humans and all living creatures. This has critical importance when Jesus proclaims holding the cup “for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.”

I hope this helps.
 
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