The Arabic "nun" - supporting our Christian brothers and sisters

[Mama Kidogo]

I created a christian terrorists thread to address these isssues in christianity and it was quickly dismissed by everyone with the logic of:
"Well, they aren't really christian because they aren't following christ's teachings"

The same argument could be made with ISIS, but nobody bothers do they? Thats why I tossed the "We got christian terrorists. ya know that right?" grenade into the discussion.

Why do christians ignore our own skeletons in the closet? The other guys use these idiots to fuel their propaganda to promote more persecution against us. We need to clean up our own houses.

Now I'm reading something logical. Cleaning up our own house (meaning what is happening today) is a very good idea.But don't think for a moment that will stop those who hate us. It's not us they hate. It's Christ.
It seems so strange that one who came offering nothing but love would be hated so much. well....until you remember how Christ made you look at yourself when you came to Him. Mankind does not enjoy seeing how wicked they can be. They do all they can not to look at it. They call what they know is sin as good or a choice. What was evil just a few decades ago is now accepted as normal. The souls of men are vexed by what they've accepted as normal.

Something we need to remember about those killing Christians. They believe they are doing the work of God. Does anything about this remind you of a man named Saul?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Now I'm reading something logical. Cleaning up our own house (meaning what is happening today) is a very good idea.But don't think for a moment that will stop those who hate us. It's not us they hate. It's Christ.
It seems so strange that one who came offering nothing but love would be hated so much. well....until you remember how Christ made you look at yourself when you came to Him. Mankind does not enjoy seeing how wicked they can be. They do all they can not to look at it. They call what they know is sin as good or a choice. What was evil just a few decades ago is now accepted as normal. The souls of men are vexed by what they've accepted as normal.

Something we need to remember about those killing Christians. They believe they are doing the work of God. Does anything about this remind you of a man named Saul?

It won't stop them from killing us, but it would gain us support among secular governments who don't view us as a threat, who would then protect us from genocide.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

How is that any different than saying Islamists?

Islamist to me means those following the ways of Islam. Add radical to it and your spot on.

To everyone,
We all have the good sense to pray for our brothers and sisters facing this. Have we forgotten what else we should be doing? Pray for the souls of those doing this to be converted.Can you imagine the awesome testimony a leader of this evil group could give once converted to Christ?

I pray we don't get caught up in the media hype and end up with hate in our hearts. It could be so easy to fall for that trap.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

It won't stop them from killing us, but it would gain us support among secular governments who don't view us as a threat, who would then protect us from genocide.

Think about that a bit. Don't secular folk see us as a threat? I think they do. I also think they should. It's those God leads us to spread the Gospel to. The Gospel it's self is a threat to them in their mind. It's requires a change and men don't really want change of that sort in their life.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Think about that a bit. Don't secular folk see us as a threat? I think they do. I also think they should. It's those God leads us to spread the Gospel to. The Gospel it's self is a threat to them in their mind. It's requires a change and men don't really want change of that sort in their life.

Christians tend to forget how much it changes you, almost to a point of forgetting that it did...like I just did.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Christians tend to forget how much it changes you, almost to a point of forgetting that it did...like I just did.

Don't feel alone. I forget it often. After we're Christian a while we tend to forget how different we are from those of the world.

 

[Albion]

Why do christians ignore our own skeletons in the closet?

As I said before, I can't think of any reasonable comparisons. Yet I keep reading people talk about Christianity having its own version(s) of these people. Well, no, it doesn't.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

You'd probably fight to resist the importation of our social filth to your children fostered from freedom if you were Islamic.

It's not like our blatant lawlessness is hidden from anyone.

The sad part is that they become killers themselves in the process, so they don't recognize their ripe hypocrisy either. Claim to be legal. Then murder. go figure.

By "our" do you mean western society? If so I agree.They have a true gripe.

I also agree with that last part. It's easy to begin fighting evil and become what you were fighting. As Christians we often forget something important:

“But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? "

So how are we hoping for this matter? That our governments will wipe the Earth clear of them? Or should we be standing in line with a smile waiting our turn? Just who are we praying for? Just those being persecuted? Those killed for their faith have their reward. Those under threat we pray will not be harmed and properly so. But are we praying for those who are committing these murders? I'd say they need the most prayer of all.

 

[squint]

By "our" do you mean western society? If so I agree.They have a true gripe.

Yes, that. Unfortunately our so called 'free' system has produced more moral filth than any societies prior. And you know how far this has progressed in our lifetime. If my grandparents were alive today they would be in shock over our flood of immoral public promotions.

This is also a major sticking point in the ME. It's no wonder they see the U.S. as Satan.

I also agree with that last part. It's easy to begin fighting evil and become what you were fighting. As Christians we often forget something important:

“But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? "

So how are we hoping for this matter? That our governments will wipe the Earth clear of them?

It's a question that the churches have dealt with and miserably failed at in the past.

Christians and unbelievers just don't seem to belong in the same bed.

Or should we be standing in line with a smile waiting our turn? Just who are we praying for? Just those being persecuted? Those killed for their faith have their reward.

We've also seen 'christian outreach' used to perform mass murders by the score, massive theft, human rights violations and near complete genocide of entire populations.

Courtesy of our religious past RCC and Protestant sects. It's just a big old ugly mess ain't it?

Do you think sin in mankind will start behaving anytime soon?

Those under threat we pray will not be harmed and properly so. But are we praying for those who are committing these murders? I'd say they need the most prayer of all.

The acceleration of evil in mankind is actually a promise of the Gospel.

Perhaps we have all been pushing in the wrong direction?

"But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful."

If you are thinking that the law of Islam hasn't produced lawless murderers, that would be a wrong answer.

The Word of God, even in bad reproductions, is invariably going to reveal the Gospel facts of lawlessness in mankind. In many ways this is a GODLY SIGN, even if it's quite thoroughly EVIL.

It is not Israel fighting Islam or the U.S. and allies fighting Islam and vice versa.

It is demons in men killing each others. That can not be stopped, nor should believers align themselves with ANY KILLING DEMONS. (short lesson) This part is where we keep going off the rails in order to seek self preservation.

 

[SolomonVII]

Good God man! Nobody even suggested that are a remote possibility. It's the martyrs and those persecuted by the "Islamic state" militias that are suffering. But to verbally persecute all Muslims because of the militia of the Islamic State is unjust too.

Good God man!
Nobody is verbally persecuting ALL Muslims because of the Islamists.
Stop with the smears!

 

[Noxot]

there is this genius idea I came up with. "we should all stop hating each other and stop killing each other." but I see that not everyone is willing. why is that? they attach evil to their good and then that which is good becomes tenfold the devil than the evil of it's own was.

justice is a scary thing when the devil is the one swinging the sword of justice.

sin blinds a person and this light that is really darkness is very very dark. people are insane and yet they believe themselves to be sane. our world would be so much better without all the various evils that we allow to rule over us. the solution is so simple. the two commandments. instead everyone is caught up in the ways of the world and all the madnesses we came up with to keep us away from that which matters the most.

people don't believe they are evil. they deny the reality of sin in themselves and then project all the evils on other people. stop judging other people and you are forced to deal with yourself.... then eventually you can learn to stop hating yourself too, once you stop being so wicked.

even the simple act of refusing to hate anyone and only hating yourself would be a better state of mind to be in than the state of mind that people get in when they hate people and they believe them to be evil heretics. people just can't stop messing with one another. people can't stop trying to control others, trying to rule over others... stop trying to be the God and Lord of other people! but that is impossible for the Antichrist to do.

 

[SolomonVII]

Islamist to me means those following the ways of Islam. Add radical to it and your spot on.

Islamist has a definite usage that means political Islam. The better word might be Islamofascist, but that was deemed to be too hurtful, for whatever reason.
Islamist is a neutral term that the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood used for himself.It is not derogatory in any way, not inflammatory and avoids any reference to fundamentalist Islam, which would include many traditional Islamic practices.
Islamist is not my own coinage, but is common usage to describe political Islam which seeks to set up an Islamic state with a caliphate in a return to some golden past with Islamic sharia law.
And no, that return to the golden past is not Moorish Spain. Ask any Egyptian Copt how pluralistic and tolerant life was under Muslimb Brotherhood rule.
The term is much larger than what would be included by the terms 'terrorist' or 'radical', but serves to explain how groups like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood can get elected among a population that is neither especially radical nor inclined to terrorism in the numbers that it would take to deliver an election.
Before ISIS began crucifying Christians, Hamas made a law that executed Christian criminals would be crucified.
If by help what is being asked for is a prayer campaign, none of this matters. Private prayer hardly needs a discussion thread to carry it through.
But if help is to include something other than prayer, it is first necessary to define who the enemy is, and thereby who it is not.
In this case, for example, Kurds(Muslims) are definitely not Islamist, definitely not the enemy, and someone that could use western support very much.

 

[SolomonVII]

Yeah it isn't a strong theory. I don't see any catholic filipinos blowing up people. Do you?

No, but the Philippines does have a problem with Muslim separatists blowing people up, funded by Saudi (aka Wahabbi Islamist) petrodollars.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

As I said before, I can't think of any reasonable comparisons. Yet I keep reading people talk about Christianity having its own version(s) of these people. Well, no, it doesn't.

I tend to agree. We have a completely different definition of Martyr than those radicals. In Christianity, it's being killed for your faith. In the radical Wahhabi mindset, it's killing self to kill the enemy. Something we call murder/suicide.

 

[SolomonVII]

I'm not convinced that barbarism is a necessary consequence of poverty. There certainly are impoverished Christian nations and nothing like ISIS is operating there.

The leaders of the Islamist movement tend to be middle to upper class and more often than not Western educated.
Osama bin Laden, while atypically rich, is not atypical of the leadership as a whole.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

No, but the Philippines does have a problem with Muslim separatists blowing people up, funded by Saudi (aka Wahabbi Islamist) petrodollars.

Yep. You are correct. Seems there is always a money trail. The truth (if we are not careful) is about to emerge. This has zero to do with their faith. That's the excuse they use. It's all about money and power. If you notice, you don't see the leaders strapping bombs on and blowing themselves up. They use promises of sex with many virgins to further confound the minds of their hormonal over-active youth.
Religion is the rouge used. I mean how many leader do you really think will uphold their odd laws? When they are caught we discover men with computers filled with inappropriate content and Western vices of every sort.The whole Western devil thing is just propaganda they use. Now many laymen of those groups actually believe it. But the leaders are just cons.

 

[Noxot]

Yep. You are correct. Seems there is always a money trail. The truth (if we are not careful) is about to emerge. This has zero to do with their faith. That's the excuse they use. It's all about money and power. If you notice, you don't see the leaders strapping bombs on and blowing themselves up. They use promises of sex with many virgins to further confound the minds of their hormonal over-active youth.
Religion is the rouge used. I mean how many leader do you really think will uphold their odd laws? When they are caught we discover men with computers filled with inappropriate content and Western vices of every sort.The whole Western devil thing is just propaganda they use. Now many laymen of those groups actually believe it. But the leaders are just cons.

the same kinds of things happens in the USA. just different lies to get people to do the same kind of bull. our promises are of "freedom" and whatnot.

 

[squint]

There are massive swaths of peace loving Muslims. Far surpassing the numbers of radicals.

Christian alignment with peace loving people of other faiths should not be an issue. But that requires 'us' to be likewise peaceable to them.

Perhaps the larger lessons for us reside there? We can't even be peace loving amongst ourselves.

We so called believers surreptitiously condemn each others to potential hell day in and day out.

We can't even be honest or open about that fact.

And yet we think we are right and deserve blessings and peace and survival?

Fat chance I say.

Let the evil be unveiled wherever it is. "and let it begin with me" (popular christian refrain deployed more accurately.)

We ALL fell in judgments a long time ago and still don't even realize it.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I created a christian terrorists thread to address these isssues in christianity and it was quickly dismissed by everyone with the logic of "Well, they aren't really christian because they aren't following christ's teachings"

The same argument could be made with ISIS, but nobody bothers do they? Thats why I tossed the "We got christian terrorists. ya know that right?" grenade into the discussion.

Why do christians ignore our own skeletons in the closet? The other guys use these idiots to fuel their propaganda to promote more persecution against us. We need to clean up our own houses.

Very real points.

It wasn't that long ago when we not only had Jim Crow rampant - but men with burning crosses and claiming Christ doing mob killings in the name of Christ. In regards to the very real and present theological stances of the KKK and where they and other whites did lynchings after church services, it was tied deeply to not seeing blacks as equal to whites and believing God divinely established the system of white supremacy. Lynch advocates were quite often religious, specifically Christian. Moreover, their brand of faith placed whites at the top of a racial hierarchy with blacks at the bottom.
More has been discussed on the issue in the excellent work entitled The Color of Christ: The Son of God and the Saga of Race in America - Edward J. Blum, Paul Harvey - Google Books

The Color of Christ and the Politics of Race in Twentieth-Century America - YouTube.

The religious imagery and theology backing the KKK was not a small issue (more discussed in discussed here or here in Sunday Lynchings: The Church’s Role in Our Nation’s Legacy of Racism : Convergence Church Oakland: A church seeking and serving the greater area of Oakland, CA and Practicing What They Preach? Lynching and Religion in the American South, 1890 – 1929 in The Color of Christ: The Son of God & the Saga of Race in America - Edward J. Blum, Paul Harvey - Google Books and Book Review: The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James H. Cone | The Jesus Question other places). It is highly unfortunate to witness how between 1919 and 1939, according to Robert Moats Miller, white people in the United States “hung, shot, burned, gouged, flogged, drowned, impaled, dismembered, garroted, and blowtorched” to to death more than 500 black people in lynchings (from the The Protestant Churches and Lynching, 1919-1939, The Journal of Negro History, pp. 118-131)

​

And yet we do not assume that all Christians advocating such attrocities represented Christians all over the world of course. Likewise, the same goes with Muslims and the evils done by those in the radical camps.


The violence within the texts of the Quran and Bible was discussed more in-depth here and here in Why do Muslims fear Christians and Christians fear Muslims? . For many things happened in the Scriptures which others have noted to be questionable - one of them being what happened when it came to the captive Midianite virgins, as God apparently permitted the Israelites to take them as wives or servants (even though both wives and servants had particular rights under Mosaic law, including prohibitions against mistreatment..Ex 21:26-27, Dt 23:15-16, Dt 21:10-14).....and some have argued that God was right to make these allowances for Israel for a time, just as a parent is right to make certain allowances for children until it’s time for them to grow up. ....although others have also said the same thing of the Quran when it comes to seeing the timeframe of when things were written and what exactly was meant when Mohommad wrote certain things - with it being accepted/allowed for a time.



For more:

• | Top Christian Scholar: The Bible is More Violent Than the Koran

• Using the Qur’an to Justify Terrorist Violence: Analysing Selective Application of the Qur’an in English-Language Militant Islamist Discourse | Holbrook | Perspectives on Terrorism

There's also The “Third Way”: Seeing God’s Beauty in the Depth of Scripture’s Violent Portraits of God – ReKnew

Distinguished Lecture - Dr. Philip Jenkins - YouTube

It is dishonorable whenever others make sweeping claims without even knowing others and then get mad if others do the same to them.....as there are NUMEROUS groups of Muslims who have never come close to harming believers - be it those who are Jewish or those who are Gentiles. There has been extensive history where Muslims (be it Arabic or Non-Arabic) have interacted well with Arabic Christians, Jewish believers in Christ and Gentile Christians without any issue - both going to places of prayer and Holy areas ...

And as said before, demonizing entire groups of people because of where many of them have been violent would be like me (as a Black man) saying that ALL Christians are "inherently violent" because of the systemic and sustained persecution/terrorism that occurred throughout the history of the South and North during Slavery, Jim Crow and the era of the KKK burning Crosses or lynchings.

With the Quran itself, as another noted wisely:

it may benefit both Muslims and Christians to recall the words of the Prophet Muhammad regarding how Christians should be treated by Muslims in the following translation of a letter he sent to the Christian monks at St. Catherines, Mount Sinai (Egypt) in 628 AD:

“This is a message from Muhammad sof of Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.


Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.

No compulsion is to be on them.

Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.

No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.

Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them.

If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”​

 

[SolomonVII]

Yep. You are correct. Seems there is always a money trail. The truth (if we are not careful) is about to emerge. This has zero to do with their faith. That's the excuse they use. It's all about money and power. If you notice, you don't see the leaders strapping bombs on and blowing themselves up. They use promises of sex with many virgins to further confound the minds of their hormonal over-active youth.
Religion is the rouge used. I mean how many leader do you really think will uphold their odd laws? When they are caught we discover men with computers filled with inappropriate content and Western vices of every sort.The whole Western devil thing is just propaganda they use. Now many laymen of those groups actually believe it. But the leaders are just cons.

Saudi petrodollars are funding mosques globally, in my hometown, and very likely in yours, to further the global political aims of the Wahabbi/Salafi faith.
The distinction between faith and politics is something that comes as second nature to American Christians, but there is no such distinction in Islam. The political goals of a global Islamist state and the religious goals of gloabl sharia law are one and the same.

It is not clear to me the motivations of the leaders, whether they sincerely believe in the cosmology of rewards in the afterlife, or whether they are psychopaths manipulating the minds of the naive to those ends.
I tend to think that they are sincere enough, and that their faith in what they are doing is real.

Either way, they are fully modern people like the rest of us living in a post-Holocaust world. These are not the beliefs of naive illiterate people of the Middle Ages. These are the beliefs of fully educated men.
In other words, their belief system, sincere or not, is demonic. They are fully educated, fully aware of the evil that that are wreaking upon this world.