The Apostle Paul: “What matters is keeping the commandments of God”

[tall73]

10-4, but I'll have to say that you didn't make that very clear in the OP. Your stress was on keeping the commandments, both in the title and in your comment.

Huh? He posted #3 and #19

 

[RDKirk]

10-4, but I'll have to say that you didn't make that very clear in the OP. Your stress was on keeping the commandments, both in the title and in your comment.

The OP is not mine. I agree with what you're saying, which is why my first response to the OP was critical.

 

[Dkh587]

The new commandment that Lord Jesus gave is love one another. Just that.Not the keeping of the law. In fact all of the Law hinges on love according to Lord Jesus. Apostle Paul taught the Galatians
Gal. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

It is not by keeping of the Law that we are justified. And if this is what you believe, you have fallen from grace.

Jesus taught obedience to the law. In fact, he taught from the law. The entire Sermon on the Mount is teaching the law properly and fully.

This thread is not about attaining salvation through the law. Please create a new thread if you want to discuss Galatians and the subject of salvation.

 

[Dkh587]

The $64 question is, "What are GOD's commandments?" What Moses said, or what Jesus and his apostles said? Both? You can't follow both without being half-hearted towards both. If you follow the former with all of your heart, you won't fulfill the righteousness required by the latter. But if you follow the latter with all of your heart, you will fulfill the righteousness required by the former (Romans 8:4). That's a good rule to live by.

If you ignore Moses, you ignore Jesus. You can’t follow Jesus if you ignore Moses, and vice verse. They’re not opposed to each other. Jesus taught things that Moses wrote and commanded.

You can follow both Jesus and Moses because they both teach the same thing.

 

[Dkh587]

And they were all saved, found righteous is God's sight, and justified. And, at least they had all the means necessary to fulfill the commands of the Law. Because it was given to them. Land, Produce, all the 'blessings', everything was all attainable to the patriarchs and their descendants. Through faith they operated the commands of the law that were given them by God. And each knew Yeshua, God their salvation.

But, quite the contrary for you. You have no means to accomplish even the least of the commands given Israel by God through Moses, because you have no land, no priesthood to function the temple, no temple, no promise of EVER receiving them because. Get this, they were not given to you!

Yeshua was given to all the world as a new covenant for the remission for all our sins under the first covenant. Jews and Gentiles, Israel and the nations. The command, by God, is to believe in His Son for the forgiveness of our sins. AND believe that he will come into our beings this very second and live, dwell, make his home in us. Where he continually day by day keeps, protects, and saves us from all our sins. Past present and future. The command is to receive eternal life, not laws that deal with sins and death. Our Lord, YOUR lord if he so be has overcome death, in this very moment. If you ...believe.

Yeshua brought life, eternal. More abundant life. Abraham saw his day and rejoiced. All the world will be restored. Not to laws that deal with sins and death, but to life more abundantly, eternal. The Spirit is given to restore this relationship between God and man. It's the first fruits of the Kingdom that is rising like the dawn.

What is abundantly clear about the OP text is it does not say, 'what counts is "following the laws given Moses"'. What is even more abundantly clear from the OP presentation is an ignorance about what the command of God actually is for us, through Yeshua.

Following God’s commandments is talking about the commands he revealed through Moses and the prophets.

The Messiah taught AND lived these commands fully, and gave us an example to follow.

The Apostles also taught obedience to God’s commands.

The Holy Spirit guides us into a life of godliness and holiness and sanctifation, which is a way of life that is actually in accordance to the law.

The Holy Spirit doesn’t cause us to ignore God’s law. If you have a spirit that tells you that we shouldn’t obey God’s law, then you ought to test that spirit to see if it’s really of God.

 

[Dkh587]

The father said to listen to Jesus, not Moses.

And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with him. So Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here! If you want, I will make here three shelters, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:3-5​

Jesus taught obedience to Moses. If you listen to the Apostles, then you listen to Jesus. If you listen to Jesus, then you listen to the prophets. If you you listen to the Prophets and Moses, then you listen to God.

The Messiah must be in line with the Law & the Prophets. It’s a package deal.

Messiah wasn’t lawless

They all teach a life of repentance to God and living obedience to His commands.

You can’t obey Jesus only and ignore the prophets/Moses. It doesn’t work that way. If you attempt to obey Jesus while disregarding Moses & the Prophets, you are obeying a man made Jesus that’s not in the Bible.

 

[συνείδησις]

The OP is not mine. I agree with what you're saying, which is why my first response to the OP was critical.

Oh sorry...

 

[Dkh587]

Galatians 5:2 (WEB)
Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.

I think Paul reckoned circumcision as a thing of outward appearance and not a thing of intelligence.
Romans 2:28 (WEB - Public Domain) For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh;

The ancient Egyptians circumcised. The Muslims circumcise. Circumcision in and of itself is less important than commandments against murder, adultery, theft and false testimony. I may become a servant of God without becoming circumcised.

Circumcision is a physical sign of a spiritual happening: the circumcising n of the heart.

Abraham was righteous in God’s eyes before God made the covenant of circumcision with him.

If one thinks circumcision makes a person righteous, then they are mistaken, as Abraham was righteous before he was circumcised.

What matters to God is that the heart is circumcised - it’s not that physical circumcision is not relevant/important, but the outward circumcision should match the inward circumcision

 

[Dkh587]

And they were all saved, found righteous is God's sight, and justified. And, at least they had all the means necessary to fulfill the commands of the Law. Because it was given to them. Land, Produce, all the 'blessings', everything was all attainable to the patriarchs and their descendants. Through faith they operated the commands of the law that were given them by God. And each knew Yeshua, God their salvation.

But, quite the contrary for you. You have no means to accomplish even the least of the commands given Israel by God through Moses, because you have no land, no priesthood to function the temple, no temple, no promise of EVER receiving them because. Get this, they were not given to you!

Yeshua was given to all the world as a new covenant for the remission for all our sins under the first covenant. Jews and Gentiles, Israel and the nations. The command, by God, is to believe in His Son for the forgiveness of our sins. AND believe that he will come into our beings this very second and live, dwell, make his home in us. Where he continually day by day keeps, protects, and saves us from all our sins. Past present and future. The command is to receive eternal life, not laws that deal with sins and death. Our Lord, YOUR lord if he so be has overcome death, in this very moment. If you ...believe.

Yeshua brought life, eternal. More abundant life. Abraham saw his day and rejoiced. All the world will be restored. Not to laws that deal with sins and death, but to life more abundantly, eternal. The Spirit is given to restore this relationship between God and man. It's the first fruits of the Kingdom that is rising like the dawn.

What is abundantly clear about the OP text is it does not say, 'what counts is "following the laws given Moses"'. What is even more abundantly clear from the OP presentation is an ignorance about what the command of God actually is for us, through Yeshua.

You’re wrong. We can fulfill/live the law every day.

Romans 13:8

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Love God(obey his commands) and love your neighbor as yourself(obeying God’s commands regarding loving others)

It’s really that simple.

Like the Apostle Paul said, who you are when you are called doesn’t matter, and you should stay that way. what matters is keeping the commandments of God. Not just 1 commandment as you falsely teach

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Silly game of semantics. GOD gave all of the law of Moses. The words of the son of GOD are what I will follow.

You call important details about scripture "silly semantics"?? The Decalogue is, was and ever will be. Only the Spirit can reveal this to you.

Did Jesus teach about the Ten? Did Jesus obey the Ten? Are we not to follow our Lord and Saviour's example in ALL things? Or is that more semantics in your mind?

 

[tall73]

The Decalogue is, was and ever will be.

The Sabbath existed before the earth it memorialized?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The Sabbath existed before the earth it memorialized?

The precept was there, yes. It is sacred time for us to be with our maker. After the fall, it became even more important to keep us connected to God. The Commandment is for us to remember our Creator and to spend Holy Sacred time with Him. Something the unfallen universe does by instinct.

 

[συνείδησις]

The precept was there, yes. It is sacred time for us to be with our maker. After the fall, it became even more important to keep us connected to God. The Commandment is for us to remember our Creator and to spend Holy Sacred time with Him. Something the unfallen universe does by instinct.

Jesus gave a new commandment that in doing achieves the righteousness required by the 4th commandment: Serve not mammon, but seek foremost the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Jesus gave a new commandment that in doing achieves the righteousness required by the 4th commandment: Serve not mammon, but seek foremost the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness.

He did not give a new Commandment, it was a new way of understanding the Commandments , spiritually.

Where in the 4th Commandment do you find a requirement of righteousness?

 

[συνείδησις]

He did not give a new Commandment, it was a new way of understanding the Commandments , spiritually.

Where in the 4th Commandment do you find a requirement of righteousness?

Your opinion. Go read Deuteronomy 18:18-19 and John 12:48. Jesus' words will judge us, not Moses'.

The purpose of the 4th commandment is to know GOD and know that he is the one sanctifying us.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Exodus 31:13

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. Ezekiel 20:12​

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Jesus' words will judge us, not Moses'.

I agree... seeing as how Jesus is part of the Godhead that gave the Royal Law on tables of stone, I will follow Jesus' Ten words.

 

[Shimshon]

If you ignore Moses, you ignore Jesus. You can’t follow Jesus if you ignore Moses, and vice verse. They’re not opposed to each other. Jesus taught things that Moses wrote and commanded.

You can follow both Jesus and Moses because they both teach the same thing.

Yet, Yeshua stated the bread he gives is NOT LIKE the bread given to Moses. John 6:32 & 58 Which lays waste to assumption that they taught the same thing.

John 6
32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

What is 'This' in verse 58 referring to? The Word given in the wilderness, or the Words Yeshua spoke?

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”

64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.

Why did so many followers turn away and no longer walk with him? Because he pointed to the laws given Moses? Or because he pointed to a Word given from heaven that was not like the Word given in the wilderness? He openly taught that the former if eaten will always lead to death, but the latter if eaten will always lead to life. Those who eat the former will have no way to eternal life UNLESS they eat what Yeshua feeds.

53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Yet you teach they are the same, a Hebrew Roots fallacy.

 

[BobRyan]

the Apostle wrote that no matter who you are when you were called into Christ, that what matters the most is to keep the commandments of God

Notice that he taught this in ALL of the churches/assemblies of Christ. All of the assemblies/churches Paul taught at, lived in obedience to God’s commands as taught by the Apostle Paul


1 Corinthians 7:18-19 NIV

‭

True.

And Paul says in Eph 6:2 that the 5th commandment is the first commandment in that still valid unit of TEN - "with a promise"

What is more - Paul gives the same list from the Ten Commandments in Romans 13 after the cross - that Christ gives in Matthew 19:17 - before the cross

 

[BobRyan]

Echoing Christ our Lord. Matthew 7:21-27, John chapters 13, 14 and 15, and more. He said that all of His Words were from the Father, and He established our New Covenant, and gave His new commandment to us (John chapter 13, and further in 14 and 15).

And when He said "Keep the Commandments" in Matthew 19 he is asked "which ones" -- at which point He began quoting from the TEN Commandments

 

[BobRyan]

You rather missed the point of that passage. The point is that it is not necessary to change one's station if one is able to keep God's commands while in his or her current station.

The point was that station does not matter... keeping God's Commandments is what matters. See 1 Cor 7:19

Also see Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"