(The Apocryphon Of Daniel) Found with The Dead Sea Scrolls (50-1 B.C.)

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Check this out:

The Apocryphon Of Daniel- Found with The Dead Sea Scrolls (50-1 B.C.)


The Dead Sea Scrolls - Featured Scrolls

Biblical Archaeology: Exploring The Dead Sea Scrolls (4Q246 Apocryphon of Daniel)

4Q246 - Wikipedia


English Translation :

COLUMN I (RIGHT) TRANSLATION

1. [ ] rested upon him, he fell befor the throne
2. [… k]ing, rage is coming to the world, and your years
3. […]. . . your vision, all of it is about to come unto the world.
4. [… mi]ghty [signs], distress is coming uopn the land
5. […] great slaughter in the provinces
6. […] king of Assyria [ and E]gypt
7. […] he will rule over the land
8. […] will do and all will serve
9. [… gr]eat will be called and he will be designated by his name.

COLUMN II (LEFT) TRANSLATION

• 1. “He will be called The Son Of God, and they will call Him The Son Of The Most High. Like the sparks
• 2. that you saw, so will their kingdom be; they will rule several year over
• 3. the earth and crush everything; a people will crush another people, and a province another provi[n]ce
• 4. Until the people of God arises and makes everyone rest from the sword.
• 5. His kingdom will be an eternal kingdom, and all His paths in truth. He will jud[ge]
• 6. the earth in truth and all will make peace. The sword will cease from the earth
• 7. and all the provinces will pay homage. The great God is his strength,
• 8. He will wage war for him, he will place the peoples in his hand and
• 9. Cast them all away before him. His rule will be an eternal rule and all the abysses”

From Cave 4:

Qumran Caves (BiblePlaces.com)

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Qumran Caves:

Qumran Caves (BiblePlaces.com)



• Cave 1

• Cave 3

• Cave 4

• Cave 5 (foreground)

• Cave 6

• Cave 7 and 8

• Cave 10 (right)

• Cave 11

 

[HypnoToad]

The first thing that stands out to me is passages from the second column, verses 4-8. It says some person (Son of God?) is supposed to bring peace, the "sword will cease from the earth"... immediately before jumping right to - "he will wage war for him". Call me crazy, but that seems blatantly self-contradicting.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

The first thing that stands out to me is passages from the second column, verses 4-8. It says some person (Son of God?) is supposed to bring peace, the "sword will cease from the earth"... immediately before jumping right to - "he will wage war for him". Call me crazy, but that seems blatantly self-contradicting.

Well, Yahushua Messiah is called "The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6) but also says that He will fight against them with The Sword of His mouth (Revelation 2:16) and He also says that "He did Not come to bring peace but A Sword" (Matthew 10:34)

 

[Alpha.Omega]

This work is not inspired by the Holy Spirit, and not part of the original Hebrew Canon of the Old Testament. It has no more value than the other uninspired extra-biblical books.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

This work is not inspired by the Holy Spirit

It has no more value than the other uninspired extra-biblical books.

and not part of the original Hebrew Canon of the Old Testament.

This part is true.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

This parts true.

the Holy Spirit ONLY Inspired the Hebrew OT Canon.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

the Holy Spirit ONLY Inspired the Hebrew OT Canon.

There were Writings / Saying before the Torah and Tanakh that Noah had when he went on the ark before the flood.

There are even Books that are Actually mentioned in the Torah and Tanakh that we don't even have access to today :


• Book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14)

• Book of the Acts of Solomon (1st Kings 11:41)

• Book of Samuel the Seer (1st Chr. 29:29)

• Book of Gad the Seer (1st Chr. 29:29)

• Book of Nathan the Prophet (1st Chr. 29:29)

• Prophecy of Ahijah (2nd Chr. 9:29)

• Visions of Ido the Seer (2nd Chr. 9:29)

• Book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15)

• Book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34)

• Sayings of the Seers (2 Chr. 33:19)

• An Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9)

• An Epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col 4:16)

 

[HypnoToad]

There were Writings / Saying before the Torah and Tanakh that Noah had when he went on the ark before the flood.

There are even Books that are Actually mentioned in the Torah and Tanakh that we don't even have access to today :


• Book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14)

• Book of the Acts of Solomon (1st Kings 11:41)

• Book of Samuel the Seer (1st Chr. 29:29)

• Book of Gad the Seer (1st Chr. 29:29)

• Book of Nathan the Prophet (1st Chr. 29:29)

• Prophecy of Ahijah (2nd Chr. 9:29)

• Visions of Ido the Seer (2nd Chr. 9:29)

• Book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15)

• Book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34)

• Sayings of the Seers (2 Chr. 33:19)

* An Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9)

* An Epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col 4:16)

* Other prophecies to Enoch (Jude 1:14) -

Mentioning them, however, does not necessarily equate to them being divinely inspired works. Paul quotes pagan philosophers in the New Testament several times. That doesn't mean that the pagan writings themselves were divinely inspired.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Mentioning them, however, does not necessarily equate to them being divinely inspired works. Paul quotes pagan philosophers in the New Testament several times. That doesn't mean that the pagan writings themselves were divinely inspired.

The big difference though is that they are Not Pagan and they are mentioned in The Scriptures as being "Prophecies" and "Visions" and "Books" from Actual Hebrew Prophets.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

There were Writings / Saying before the Torah and Tanakh that Noah had when he went on the ark before the flood.

There are even Books that are Actually mentioned in the Torah and Tanakh that we don't even have access to today :


• Book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14)

• Book of the Acts of Solomon (1st Kings 11:41)

• Book of Samuel the Seer (1st Chr. 29:29)

• Book of Gad the Seer (1st Chr. 29:29)

• Book of Nathan the Prophet (1st Chr. 29:29)

• Prophecy of Ahijah (2nd Chr. 9:29)

• Visions of Ido the Seer (2nd Chr. 9:29)

• Book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15)

• Book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34)

• Sayings of the Seers (2 Chr. 33:19)

• An Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9)

• An Epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col 4:16)

What we have in the 66 Books of the Holy Bible, is ALL that God wants us to have. If He thought we should have had others, then He would have made sure that we did!

 

[HypnoToad]

The big difference though is that they are Not Pagan and they are mentioned in The Scriptures as being "Prophecies" and "Visions" and "Books" from Actual Hebrew Prophets.

Sure, but just because a work contains an accurate prophecy or vision, it still doesn't necessarily follow that the entire work is divinely inspired.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

What we have in the 66 Books of the Holy Bible, is ALL that God wants us to have. If He thought we should have had others, then He would have made sure that we did!

....... But Not For This Generation, But For A Remote One Which Is For To Come. .......
• 1 Enoch 1:1-3




Ok, so you don't count it as scripture, I get it.

Do you think that it is impossible that an Essene Scribe had a prophecy and wrote it down ?

Do you think it's fake or something ?

 

[Alpha.Omega]

....... But Not For This Generation, But For A Remote One Which Is For To Come. .......
• 1 Enoch 1:1-3




Ok, so you don't count it as scripture, I get it.

Do you think that it is impossible that an Essene Scribe had a prophecy and wrote it down ?

Do you think it's fake or something ?

What are you referring to

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

What are you referring to

Never mind.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Another Site:

Apocryphon of Daniel, English Translation | Dead Sea Scrolls Prints

 

[Jipsah]

This part is true.

So I assume it plays an ntegral role in your personal Canon of Scripture, along with the Gospel of Enoch and selected bits of the New Testament.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

So I assume it plays an ntegral role in your personal Canon of Scripture, along with the Gospel of Enoch and selected bits of the New Testament.

I just wanted to show you guys that it was found and what it says. That's all.

Believe what you want.

I just think it's cool that it talks about The Son Of God before Christianity even existed and that it was found with other scriptures that are in our Biblical Canons.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I just wanted to show you guys that it was found and what it says. That's all.

Believe what you want.

I just think it's cool that it talks about The Son Of God before Christianity even existed and that it was found with other scriptures that are in our Biblical Canons.

An analogy and question:

Let's say in the near future the the Latter Day Saints out in Utah decided to bury or hide their scriptures in the Great Salt Lake Desert. Over the course of a relatively short time, Mormonism as a religion dies out. Several thousand years later, some of the Christians that are around stumble upon the books in the desert and discover that in addition to the traditional Christian scripture this Utah community had on hand and stored in the desert, there were some "missing books" that the Christians hadn't seen before (but perhaps only heard of): fragments of the Pearl of Great Price, the Book of Abraham, and the Book of Mormon. Being several thousand years removed from the American scene, a debate ensues among the Christians as to why these books aren't in the canon and whether or not these additional books should be canonical.

The question is, should these books be included into the canon by our descendants 2000 years from now (ok, if you're actually a Mormon you don't get to answer the hypothetical )? Based on your reasoning it seems they should be included. Here they were recovered with what we already know to be canon. Not only that, but much of it bears striking similarity with what's already said in the available canon. It uses much of the same language, categories and concepts. The group itself identified themselves as part of Christianity. As our descendants dig around they discover that this group in the Utah desert was a fairly large sect at one point. Someone undoubtedly would show up and claim that these books were suppressed (the Christians at that time evidently didn't like those books).

Of course you would probably not be willing to include these documents as you have the vantage point of being here and now, but you have to think from the vantage point of our descendants in this hypothetical scenario.

This is pretty similar the situation of the [probably Essene] sect out at Qumran then and ourselves today. Of course they use much of the same language, concepts, and categories of Judaism at the time (just as the LDS use many of the same categories, concepts and language of Christianity, especially the American variety). These were Jews after all (just as the LDS are largely a sect of Christendom and American Protestantism). But it seems that identifying a Jewish sect's writings at the time is insufficient for identifying canonical works, just as identifying a Christian sect is insufficient for including their particular writings into the canon. Just as the LDS works were heavily influenced by the Christian canon, so too were the works of Qumran influenced by the Hebrew canon that was already recognized by other Jewish sects. Hence, why they use the same language, concepts and categories.

But use of similar language does not equate to identical, much less correct, doctrine. Nor does use of similar language, categories and concepts guarantee consistency and unity of thought across different sects of similar groups. Groups can use similar language, processes, categories and concepts yet mean, think and teach different things.

In any case, it seems there exists a possible world where, using your reasoning, the LDS particular scriptures end up becoming part of the orthodox canon.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

An analogy and question:

Let's say in the near future the the Latter Day Saints out in Utah decided to bury or hide their scriptures in the Great Salt Lake Desert. Over the course of a relatively short time, Mormonism as a religion dies out. Several thousand years later, some of the Christians that are around stumble upon the books in the desert and discover that in addition to the traditional Christian scripture this Utah community had on hand and stored in the desert, there were some "missing books" that the Christians hadn't seen before (but perhaps only heard of): fragments of the Pearl of Great Price, the Book of Abraham, and the Book of Mormon. Being several thousand years removed from the American scene, a debate ensues among the Christians as to why these books aren't in the canon and whether or not these additional books should be canonical.

The question is, should these books be included into the canon by our descendants 2000 years from now (ok, if you're actually a Mormon you don't get to answer the hypothetical )? Based on your reasoning it seems they should be included. Here they were recovered with what we already know to be canon. Not only that, but much of it bears striking similarity with what's already said in the available canon. It uses much of the same language, categories and concepts. The group itself identified themselves as part of Christianity. As our descendants dig around they discover that this group in the Utah desert was a fairly large sect at one point. Someone undoubtedly would show up and claim that these books were suppressed (the Christians at that time evidently didn't like those books).

Of course you would probably not be willing to include these documents as you have the vantage point of being here and now, but you have to think from the vantage point of our descendants in this hypothetical scenario.

This is pretty similar the situation of the [probably Essene] sect out at Qumran then and ourselves today. Of course they use much of the same language, concepts, and categories of Judaism at the time (just as the LDS use many of the same categories, concepts and language of Christianity, especially the American variety). These were Jews after all (just as the LDS are largely a sect of Christendom and American Protestantism). But it seems that identifying a Jewish sect's writings at the time is insufficient for identifying canonical works, just as identifying a Christian sect is insufficient for including their particular writings into the canon. Just as the LDS works were heavily influenced by the Christian canon, so too were the works of Qumran influenced by the Hebrew canon that was already recognized by other Jewish sects. Hence, why they use the same language, concepts and categories.

But use of similar language does not equate to identical, much less correct, doctrine. Nor does use of similar language, categories and concepts guarantee consistency and unity of thought across different sects of similar groups. Groups can use similar language, processes, categories and concepts yet mean, think and teach different things.

In any case, it seems there exists a possible world where, using your reasoning, the LDS particular scriptures end up becoming part of the orthodox canon.

I get it, I really do. I Hear and Understand Exactly what you're saying and the reason why you're saying this.


But .... Here's the biggest reason why To Me this is a different type of situation :
Because It is Literally Making the statement "He will be called The Son Of God, and they will call Him The Son Of The Most High." Before Before The Birth Yahushua Messiah and Christianity.



It's All Good. I understand your reason. I just wanted to show everyone that it exists.