The Antichrist: An Alien?

[mxyzpt1k]

If the specific aliens which some people claim to have had contact with (such as "the Greys") truly exist, they could be fallen angels or demons. Or they could be real aliens in the sense of mortal beings from some other star system. Or, if interstellar travel is physically impossible because of the practical limits which special relativity places on how fast matter can travel, they could be mortal beings from our own solar system who evolved (by God's created process of evolution) or were miraculously created by God long before humans, whether on this planet, or on the 2nd or the 4th planet from the sun, in some past eon when either or both of those planets was inhabitable.

Travel to and From our Universe is expressed in the multiple of the "Zebulun". Since we are a "non-conjoined, transparent dimension". Space has to be created, and destroyed, in order for the aliens to gain access to you. Because our universe is not designed to support the creation and destruction of space, another universe is first created parallel to our universe, by God, in order to facilitate the creation and destruction of space, necessary for the aliens to gain access to man on limited terms.

The "Zebulun" is readily identifiable in the gospel as this multiple of dimensional impartiality. Zebulun created and because it was created it was accused of "stealing ten tribes" (Judges 12:11-12). Zebulun is connected to the "Key of David" and "Three Days of Darkness" (1 Chronicles 12:39-40 and 1 Samuel 30:13-14). The work "Ziklag with fire", is used instead of the word "Zebulun and Star Wormwood". The Egyptian David is speaking to, is an Alien in the context of the gospel.

1300's in Europe saying: "Other inhabited continents can't exist besides the ones in the Bible: Europe, Africa, and Asia. For if other inhabited continents did exist, the Bible would have told us about them". Of course, the truth is that the Bible made no mention of the other inhabited continents of North America, South America, and Australia, and yet they existed. Similarly, even though the Bible makes no mention of other inhabited planets, they could exist.

If even some unresurrected humans on this planet can sometimes be called "angels" ......................

Commandment to the The Fallen Angels visiting Earth

II PETER 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
JOB 11:4 For thou hast said, My doctrine [is] pure, and I am clean in thine eyes.
JOB 11:5 But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;
JOB 11:6 And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that [they are] double to that which is! Know therefore that God exacteth of thee [less] than thine iniquity [deserveth].

God must speak in our language, or bring a railing accusation to us, that is God must speak in the language of the Aliens. He must create another Universe in order to facilitate the transference of dimension, through the Zebulun, the multiple of creation and destruction that must remove the transparent isolation which makes the scope of this universe impossible to otherwise traverse. (SEALED BY GOD).

 

[LastSeven]

I'm not saying that all Christians will me lumped into one place or city. That's not what I'm envisioning.

I believe things will get so bad here on earth, that it will be unbearable. I believe when our Heavenly Father says it's going to get bad -- he means bad. Yeah, things today are bad, but they can be 100 X worse.

So do you envision a physical battle?

 

[Leviishere]

Travel to and From our Universe is expressed in the multiple of the "Zebulun". Since we are a "non-conjoined, transparent dimension". Space has to be created, and destroyed, in order for the aliens to gain access to you. Because our universe is not designed to support the creation and destruction of space, another universe is first created parallel to our universe, by God, in order to facilitate the creation and destruction of space, necessary for the aliens to gain access to man on limited terms.

The "Zebulun" is readily identifiable in the gospel as this multiple of dimensional impartiality. Zebulun created and because it was created it was accused of "stealing ten tribes" (Judges 12:11-12). Zebulun is connected to the "Key of David" and "Three Days of Darkness" (1 Chronicles 12:39-40 and 1 Samuel 30:13-14). The work "Ziklag with fire", is used instead of the word "Zebulun and Star Wormwood". The Egyptian David is speaking to, is an Alien in the context of the gospel.



Commandment to the The Fallen Angels visiting Earth

II PETER 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
JOB 11:4 For thou hast said, My doctrine [is] pure, and I am clean in thine eyes.
JOB 11:5 But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;
JOB 11:6 And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that [they are] double to that which is! Know therefore that God exacteth of thee [less] than thine iniquity [deserveth].

God must speak in our language, or bring a railing accusation to us, that is God must speak in the language of the Aliens. He must create another Universe in order to facilitate the transference of dimension, through the Zebulun, the multiple of creation and destruction that must remove the transparent isolation which makes the scope of this universe impossible to otherwise traverse. (SEALED BY GOD).

Explain this more. You're saying that there is a parallel universe?

 

[Leviishere]

So do you envision a physical battle?

I'm not saying it isn't spiritual. I'm sure there will be many spiritual things upon and encompassing earth in those days.

In my opinion, Revelation is where the physical and spiritual collide.

Do you perceive the tribulation to be entirely spiritual? Or do you think any of it is physical?

Some people say even the mark of the beast will be spiritual, but it can't be, because you have to have it in order to buy and sale. So therefore, it's something that is scanned. It could be computerized, or anything.

^^^ That's just one example, where people think it's spiritual, when it can't be.

Levi.

 

[Interplanner]

The time of unequalled trouble in MT 24A etc was in the 1st century. It says so very clearly with lead-ups in chs 21, 22, 23. After v29 (the B part of the chapter) it's about worldwide judgement. The two things do not mix.

Anyone who tries to mix them damages the text so bad it is hopeless.

 

[Douggg]

What do you believe the Anti Christ to be?

He has to be something very deceiving. I can't see him being just a ordinary human. Something this deceiving has to be very appealing to the human eye.

I certainly don't think he's a pope, president, prime minister or any other leader.

Leviishere, I realize you were not posting to me. But if I might reply to you.

The term Antichrist has been thrown around in a overly generic fashion to refer to the arch villain of the end times.

Christ, the term itself and concept is the promised great King of Israel, son of David. Thus the Anti-Christ is someone who is coming that the Jews will believe is their long awaited mashiach (our word being Christ - the King of Israel, in Mark 15:32), instead of Jesus, the true and rightful King of Israel.

The person is only in that role as the "Antichrist" for 3 1/2 years, which has an abrupt ending; and then afterward is known as the beast. Which traditionally, bible believers have simply used the term the beast interchangeably with the Antichrist . But it is an error to do so.

Here is the genesis of the arch villain, which may be of use to you.

From Revelation 17:10-11, the seven heads are seven kings of the 4th kingdom, Roman Empire, Julio Claudian's.

King 1 Julius Caesar.
King 2 Augustus Caesar
King 3 Tiberius
King 4 Caligula
King 5 Claudius
King 6 Nero, last of the historic Julio-Claudians
King 7 the little horn, leader of the EU
King 8 the beast, leader of the EU


genesis of the arch-villain of the end times.
The person starts off as the little horn, leader of the EU; (King 7 - the little horn, leader of the EU)
Then Gog/Magog threatens;
Then the little horn mobilizes to stave off the hostilities; (Daniel 8:9, 8:23)
Then Gog/Magog takes place;
Then the little horn arrives in Israel, as the prince who shall come;
Then he is perceived in the aftermath of Gog/Magog as the messiah; (becomes the King of Israel, the Antichrist)
Then he confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant resetting the 7 year cycle; (the cycle is in Deuteronomy 31:11-13)
Then 3 1/2 years later, thinks he has achieved God-hood;
Then Satan enters him to carry out the act of going into the temple; (the son of perdition, 2thessalonians 2:3-4)
Then God has him killed, Ezekiel 28:1-10; (ending his stint as the King of Israel, and being the Antichrist)
Then he and Satan find themselves in hell, Isaiah 14, next to the pit;
Then God kicks him out of hell, bringing him back to life; (Isaiah 14:19-20, for destroying his land and his people)
Then Satan frees the beast unclean spirit from the pit;
Then the unclean spirit enters the come back to life man of sin;
making the person the beast of Revelation 13 for that last 42 months. (King 8 - the beast, leader of the EU)



Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[Bible2]

Interplanner said in post 193:

Antichrist has been around since the letters of John at least.

That's right, in that any person is an antichrist who denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or who denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or who denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the 1st century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

But the existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) doesn't contradict that there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3,4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist, just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) doesn't contradict that there is an individual man (Jesus Christ of Nazareth) who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7), and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13), who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the scriptures by the church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's personal name will add up to six hundred and sixty-six (Revelation 13:17c-18).

 

[Bible2]

Leviishere said in post 196:

Yes, but wouldn't a plan to gather people away from Christ be the same as rejecting him? Having people to believe there is no Christ? Or to manipulate (deceive) them into thinking Christ is against them, rather than for them? I think it is.

Note that during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will consciously and openly worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this won't require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that there is no Christ, or that there is no Jesus, or that Christ is evil, or that Jesus is evil. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, he isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that he is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' 2nd coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' 2nd coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus returned. And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is important to know when and how the real Jesus' 2nd coming will happen (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), whereas Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And he rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the first book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH, and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). Satan may be worshipped not as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could falsely say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could falsely say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself with only the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as YHWH God (the Son) along with YHWH God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

 

[Bible2]

Leviishere said in post 196:

And who knows, with the technology of those days -- the government could even make some artificial intelligence, claiming it to be from space (Giving it an image) to fool people! And of course Satan would orchestrate it.

Regarding the "image of the beast" (Revelation 13:15), it could be an android image of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) which the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20) could cause to be made after the Antichrist receives a terrible head wound (Revelation 13:3,14b). For this injury could leave the Antichrist's facial and bodily appearance permanently marred, and could render him unable to speak clearly, like someone after a bad stroke, so that the Antichrist won't want to appear or speak in public again.

Did you ever see that movie "Dave"? It had a President who was in a coma, so his handlers found a regular guy who looked exactly like the President, and had him be a public stand-in for the President. He was able to speak just like the President did. It could be like that with the Antichrist's image. It could be the Antichrist's "Dave", his double, which appears and speaks (Revelation 13:15) before the world instead of his wounded self. But instead of letting people think that the Antichrist's android image is the Antichrist himself, the False Prophet could tell people from the beginning that the image isn't the Antichrist himself, but still fully represents him.

In Revelation 13:15, the original Greek word translated as "life" or "breath" (pneuma: G4151) can mean "spirit" in the sense of consciousness (1 Corinthians 2:11a, Luke 1:47), so that the android could appear to have a spirit, to have consciousness. The way that this could be achieved would be through the android having wireless connections to huge banks of supercomputers running advanced artificial intelligence software. The False Prophet could claim that the Antichrist's consciousness dwells within the android by means of neural networks imprinted with the Antichrist's brain patterns. But this could be a lie, in that the android won't actually have the Antichrist's consciousness, or any true consciousness, but will only appear to have consciousness, by its being able to pass even the most stringent Turing Test. This is a test whereby one speaks with a computer and can't tell whether it has consciousness or not, because all of its answers are the same as if it had consciousness.

But the android's "consciousness" could appear far more advanced than any human's, for it could have access to huge databases containing every fact known to man, so that the android will appear to be omniscient. In this way, it could convince the world that it is not just a machine, but a material incarnation, a machine avatar, of the true God, a literal "deus ex machina", a literal "God from a machine". And this machine "God" could boast not only of his mental powers, but also of his physical powers: he could be extremely strong. And he could boast of the "immortality" of his machine body, which could be made of titanium, covered with some practically-everlasting flesh-like silicone. People could just be completely awestruck by his (what they could call) "omniscient wisdom, his strength, his indestructibility". They could consider him more than worthy of worship by (in their words) "mere humanity, which is so mentally and physically limited, made out of mere flesh and blood, which is so weak and so mortal". The world will actually worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), just as it will actually worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

The Antichrist's image could be placed standing in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the image will become the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). And in order to make it easy for everyone in the world to be able to see the image and worship it (Revelation 13:15), it could appear on every smartphone, television, computer, GPS navigation system, and electronic billboard at set times each day. And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a computer-generated image on each individual's smartphone, speaking in and understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages and responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence and language software.

And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives, for it could have access to huge databases compiled by the Antichrist's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, and health agencies, databases containing all the facts about everyone: who their family and friends are, where they live and work, who their neighbors and coworkers are, how much they make, what cars and properties they own and use, where they go, where they shop, what they buy, where they eat out, what shows and videos they watch, what they read, what they say, what they post on the internet, what their health problems are, etc., so that the Antichrist's image could seem to know everything about everyone.

And the worship of the image could be connected with a daily surveillance and subjugation of everyone. For the image's supercomputers could make his image automatically appear on everyone's smartphone at set times each day to be worshipped. And smartphones contain GPS chips which can be secretly pinged in order to determine the exact location of the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could ping the GPS chip of everyone's smartphone and know exactly where everyone is.

Also, smartphones contain cameras and microphones, which can be remotely opened secretly in order to see and hear what is going on around the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could open the cameras and microphones of everyone's smartphone to determine what everyone is doing and saying, and the image could then demand that the individuals worship him as God, saying some set prayer of praise and adoration. And if any individual refuses, the image's supercomputers could detect his noncompliance, and notify the nearest police officers of his exact location, and order the officers to arrest him for blasphemy and treason. He could then be given a chance to be "reformed" (i.e. in a brainwashing camp, or through physical torture, if necessary), but if he proves recalcitrant, he will be executed (Revelation 13:15) by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4).

The beheading process itself could be made into a televised and webcasted spectacle, to serve not only as a dire warning to anyone thinking of refusing to worship the image, but also to serve as an amazingly-horrific entertainment for the masses, like how the ancient Romans made it an entertainment for the masses to gather them into the Colosseum in Rome and let them watch Christians being thrown to lions and devoured alive.

Huge beheading structures could be built, by which 20 "traitors" could be beheaded at one time by one fall of one blade. The "traitors" could be bound in a row along an upright "U"-shaped device with a track for a large guillotine blade, which could start out in a resting position at the top of one side. The blade could be so massive and so sharp that when it is released it will easily slice down through 10 necks on one side of the "U" and continue on by its own momentum up the other side of the "U", shearing off another 10 heads. This all could happen so quickly that it will appear as if all 20 heads are struck off almost in unison, followed immediately by 20 geysers of blood rushing out in unison for all the Antichrist's "faithful" to gawk at and cheer over in the comfort of their own homes before their televisions and computers.

Also, immediately after the show, at the site where it took place, teams of surgeons could rush in to "harvest" all the fresh organs and other body parts from the beheaded bodies to be used for transplants (beheading being the best way for a body to die if you want to harvest its parts). What is left of the bodies could then be stuffed into shipping containers, which, once full, could be painted black and stacked like stones into a gigantic, Black Pyramid of Death, which could eventually reach some 30 stories high and contain tens of millions of bodies. A huge plaque could be erected in front of the Pyramid which will read: "This is a monument to the shame of YHWH, who created everything to die". (Of course, the truth is that he didn't, for he created Adam and Eve immortal; it wasn't until they sinned that they became mortal: Genesis 2:17. And YHWH will restore immortality to saved humans through Jesus Christ: Romans 6:23. Also, any such plaque would be hypocritical, for it will be the Antichrist who will have murdered the people entombed in the Pyramid, not YHWH. And so it will actually be a monument to how those who hate YHWH and his wisdom, love death: Proverbs 8:36b.)

Regarding the worship of the Antichrist's image, to help foster a group dynamic, every neighborhood and village in the world could be helped to create a group worship center in which everyone in that neighborhood or village will have to gather together at a set time each evening to bow down and prostrate himself or herself before a life-size, lifelike image of the Antichrist, which could be a computer-generated, animated, holographic or widescreen 3D HDTV image of him clothed in beautiful golden robes and standing majestically before them (or sitting on a magnificent golden throne), and speaking computer-generated customized messages to them as a group.

This worship could be accompanied by the most beautiful symphonic music (cf. Daniel 3:5), or whatever is the most beautiful music to the local people, to help them (in the words of the Antichrist's propaganda machine) "Be uplifted into the true spirit of praise and worship of our Great Lord and Master. Praised be His Majestic Name forever and ever!", etc. And what with the wonderful music, and all of their fellow worshippers around them, and customized messages of encouragement spoken in a deep, soothing voice by a life-size, holographic or 3D HDTV image of the Antichrist to certain members of each "worship group", it could be that some people in each group will start to really get into the evening worship sessions, and even begin to (in their words) "Truly feel the Living Presence of our loving God among us, loving us so tenderly, so personally! Oh, how I love Him! He is So Great!"

But the world's worship of the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), no matter how blissful it may become for some people, and the world's worship of the Antichrist and Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), will last for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:5, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and completely defeats the Antichrist and Lucifer, and the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3), and Jesus then sets up his own, 1,000-year physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

 

[Leviishere]

Bible 2:

Your post has allot of today's technology in it. And yes, it would make plenty of sense, if tribulation was happening today, or sometime soon. I highly doubt it's anytime soon, because there's still allot of prophecy to happen before tribulation. IMO, prophecy just doesn't happen over a few years, it can take centuries. So, my belief is, the course of time will run much further than the 21st century. I'm sure things will get much more advanced in technology than what technology we have today.
It's very hard to say how technology will advance between now and the age of the tribulation.

__________________________________________________________________


What I'm really stumped on is this:
Many people believe that Aliens are actually Demons, and I believe they are. Billy Graham even believes this. I'm not saying he's anything superior over anyone's opinion, because he's not. However, he's just one out of many Christians that do believe this.

Satan and his Falling Angels will be hurled to earth before the great tribulation, according to Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

So if we put one and one together, and if the Demons are the Aliens, then yes, they will be upon the earth during tribulation.

Do you understand what I'm saying? And if it supposed to become like the days of Noah, then wouldn't the Nephilim be upon the earth again? I would think so.

See, that's just it... it's hard for us to imagine what tribulation will be like. I do believe we're in the spring before the summer. However, how many ages and years does that spring consist of? Tribulation could still me a good while off yet, and we can't say with 100% accuracy what those days will be like. Maybe because we're not in those days yet, and of course we're not, because there's still allot of prophecy to happen before then, and at the same time -- technology will advance further within the future.

Prophecy is a time over time over time again completion. It's not just going to happen all at once.
That's the way I understand it.

All I'm saying is, that yes, it's very possible extraterrestrials (demons) will play a role in tribulation. Why would they not? They are going to be upon earth in those days, according to scripture.

Levi.

 

[Interplanner]

The time of unequalled trouble took place in 1st century Judea, AKA the Jewish War of 66+, AKA the Destruction of Jerusalem. Time for you all to re-calibrate.

 

[Leviishere]

And to note: All I'm saying is, that these Aliens people have seen instances of may not be Aliens at all. They are demons, and have always been demons. It's just our vocabulary of today (Modern times) have created another word "Alien" for what are really "Demons", and some of them could actually be "Angels"... that is, the good ones. I'm pretty sure though, the grays are Demons.

And I could be wrong. They could actually be another one of God's creations, living on another planet. Somehow, I highly doubt it.

The demons and Satan was tossed out of heaven in ancient times. They have always been there. When they were tossed out, where did they go? A place below heaven? Which would be our universe? It makes plenty of sense, when you really think about it.

And when Satan and his Demons are hurled to earth, as said in Rev 12:9. Do you really think they're going to expose themselves as "Demons" to humankind in those days? No, they're not. They will say they're something else. Something to deceive people, and people would buy into it.

It's really not hard to comprehend with an open mind.

 

[LastSeven]

Do you perceive the tribulation to be entirely spiritual? Or do you think any of it is physical?

I believe the battle of Armageddon is 100% spiritual and it has been raging since Jesus rose, but I believe the tribulation that Jesus spoke of was physical and took place in 70 AD.

Some people say even the mark of the beast will be spiritual, but it can't be, because you have to have it in order to buy and sale. So therefore, it's something that is scanned. It could be computerized, or anything.

I believe the mark of the beast is spiritual because it's been around since day 1. The mark of God is described in Exodus and Dueteronomy, and this is a spiritual mark based on ones actions and desires.

Exodus 13
And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the Lord brought thee out of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 6
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:... 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Similary, it makes sense that the mark of the beast is based on actions and desires.

I totally understand your point about the buying and selling and I'm not sure about this verse either, but there is a good reason why it can not be a physical mark and that is this: God would not condemn you to hell if the gestapo break down your door and force a microchip into your hand. He also would not condemn you to hell if are not aware of the link between any such microchip and a decision to deny Christ. It has to be a conscious choice to deny or reject Christ.

James 4:4 says "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."

Jesus said the same thing in Luke 9:50 "And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

This means there are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who are with God and those who are against God. In other words, if you don't have the mark of God, then you are against God.

And if you are against God you have already made a conscious decision to reject Christ, and this is infinitely more meaningful to God than any microchip you might implant.

The only way to not have the mark of the beast is to be saved through Jesus. Everybody else has the mark already.

 

[Leviishere]

I believe the battle of Armageddon is 100% spiritual and it has been raging since Jesus rose, but I believe the tribulation that Jesus spoke of was physical and took place in 70 AD.

What do you mean it already took place? How could it have already happened, when it's written in the prophecy of our future?
I'm just curious to why you think it's already happened, and how could it have happened already?

I have heard some claim Nero was the beast.

It don't make sense, because you have to have the mark to buy and sale. If it were spiritual, then why would you need it to buy or sale?

So, you believe that the tribulation has already happened, and the next event is Armageddon?

It don't ad up. Maybe you can explain why you think tribulation has already past.

Also, what about the prophecy of Wormwood? This hasn't happened yet, so how could tribulation have happened. Assuming the prophecy is in chronological order.

Levi.

Edit: Maybe you're talking about Matthew 24, where Jesus says he will return after tribulation. That tribulation hasn't happened either, because he was referring to the end of days. I know people play around with scriptures, in order to make sense of a rapture before tribulation, but Jesus plainly tells us, it will be AFTER tribulation. Jesus isn't going to lie. That's just not going to happen. The rapture IMO is a man made idea.

I believe that EVERYONE will be going through tribulation. Why would anyone think they're so much better, that they don't? And I know, we as Christians sometimes think that we will be saved before the great tribulation, but I don't think so. Because no matter if one is Christian or not, we're all the same in God's eyes. Sin has no value, and we all sin. Little white liar, murderer... same thing. We all die, so we all are sinners. However, yes, those who are saved will indeed live forever through Christ (On a spiritual level). But if anyone was really any better than anyone else saved or unsaved, they wouldn't die physically.

* I'm not understanding where you think tribulation has happened.

 

[mxyzpt1k]

Explain this more. You're saying that there is a parallel universe?

A parallel universe must be created to facilitate Joseph ... people report originally that there was an explosion over Roswell, New Mexico. That is incorrect, a universe was created, and through that universe Joseph was allowed to articulate as the aliens, what they saw was the articulation. Now we know for for a fact that when the Two Witnesses are slain their bodies will also be articulated, because the Antichrist will reign through Joseph. But because he carries Joseph, this is also true in part. As I've stated, only the Antichrist could claim that the level of force involved in using a sniper rifle to attempt the kill, will knock down an airline plane. Or exterminate thousands in plagues, thing we are also witnesses today, but we don't know who the antichrist is as of this moment.

GENESIS 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
JOHN 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not].

Jesus doesn't grab himself in the groin when he kneels down as the parallel reference implies. Jesus lowers kneels down and lowers his head slightly below his hand which he has raised slightly above his head. Jesus brought down the Temple Stones, or the Stars of Heaven ... and it is what they had witnesses that appears to burst forth out of empty space, which drove them off and cast out their evil spirit at that time.

JOHN 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

Shortly after this the Jewish people ask Jesus if Moses will command the Temple Stones? They ask Jesus if they had seen Moses appear or Not, Jesus ofcourse answers this question, that that was infact Moses, which he would eventually resurrect to bestow the New Universe to the Tribes that are "Separatist Inheritors" of a New Earth of their own.

Later on, because the Apostles at that time were presenting Jesus with an evil spirit, he arose up a high mountain and revealed Elijah and Moses shining like the sun as the angels of God.

Going back to the Antichrist, as I've stated we don't know who he is, but someone in the earth may of claimed to have recorded aliens, and may have also claimed to have recorded those aliens on board Flight 370 ... in any event we know without controversy, what had eventually happened, this ofcourse is directly connected to what had been done, in terms of the level of force with the Antichrist. Since that is what the gospel teaches on the subject in revelations, but we do not know for sure.

 

[LastSeven]

Levi, you are reading scripture with assumptions. You assume the prophecy is in our future, but why?

You have to remember that the transition from the old covenant to the new was a major event in God's plan. In fact, it was the major event. Much more significant than anything in our future because it was the beginning of Christ's kingdom and that's what it's all about.

So in order for God to usher in the new covenant, he had to destroy the old. And in order to destroy the old covenant he had to destroy the physical temple. Enter the Romans in 70 AD.

I'm sure somebody on here could better explain why 70 AD was a fulfillment of the tribulation prophecy, but I can give you a few key points here. First of all, note that in all three gospels Jesus warns of a localized event, in saying "let those in Judea flee to the mountains". Secondly, in reading Luke we can see that "the abomination of desolation" (which Matthew and Mark both mention) is a reference to the armies surrounding Jerusalem. Thirdly, Jesus said that not one stone of the temple would be left on the other. All of these perfectly match the events of 70 AD, and this is the great tribulation.

Now to top it all off Jesus himself told us that these things would happen during that same generation when he said "This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened".

Also, notice that Jesus does not talk about any mark of the beast in the Olivet discourse, so this is an entirely separate issue from the great tribulation. You are probably linking the two because Revelation talks about setting up an image of the beast, and the Olivet discourse talks about the abomination of desolation, where you assume these two are the same thing.

As for the Battle of Armageddon, I'm not saying it's the next event, but rather it's an entirely different event. The battle of Armageddon is a spiritual battle, and it began when Jesus defeated sin. Although one could argue that this battle has been raging since the garden of Eden. The point is, it is not a physical battle, because a spiritual kingdom can not have physical enemies.

 

[Bible2]

Leviishere said in post 210:

Your post has allot of today's technology in it. And yes, it would make plenty of sense, if tribulation was happening today, or sometime soon. I highly doubt it's anytime soon, because there's still allot of prophecy to happen before tribulation. IMO, prophecy just doesn't happen over a few years, it can take centuries. So, my belief is, the course of time will run much further than the 21st century.

Note that it may not take that long for the tribulation to begin. For Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021 or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

--

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel which was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel which Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel which was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.

But Jesus' kingdom is still called "Israel" (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

Leviishere said in post 210:

I'm sure things will get much more advanced in technology than what technology we have today.

That could be right, just as that could also have already occurred eons ago. For if pre-Adamic civilizations existed on the earth tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years ago, they could have reached as high a level of technology as our modern technology today. For the Bible says that "there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things" (Ecclesiastes 1:9-11). And even our future technology could have already been invented during past eons, for "that which is to be hath already been" (Ecclesiastes 3:15).

But all past-eons technology on the earth could have been obliterated by God, leaving no trace of it, just as all of our own technology today (and in our future) will eventually be obliterated by God, when "the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Peter 3:10b). Here "earth" could mean just the surface of the earth, for the planet itself could continue on forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4, Psalms 104:5, Psalms 78:69b), so that the future "new earth" (2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) could mean a new surface of the earth.

 

[Bible2]

Leviishere said in post 210:

Satan and his Falling Angels will be hurled to earth before the great tribulation, according to Revelation 12:9

Actually, Revelation 12:7-9 refers to a mid-tribulation war in heaven, between Michael and his angels on the one hand, and Satan and his angels on the other, resulting in Satan and his angels being defeated and cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:8-9,12-13). And this could occur after 2 "alien" attacks on humanity have occurred during the first half of the tribulation.

For at the preceding, 5th trumpet, weird locust-like beings will swarm up from the bottomless pit of the earth to torment mankind with excruciating stings for 5 months (Revelation 9:2-10). And the world could see them as "aliens" who had been hibernating for thousands of years in a cavern deep underground. The locust-like beings won't kill anyone, but they will make those they sting want to die, the pain will be so bad (Revelation 9:5-6).

After that, an army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders will come upon the earth (Revelation 9:16-19). If they descend from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as aliens. But they and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") could (falsely) say that they are YHWH God's main army. In fact, they could be loyal to Lucifer (Satan, the dragon, Revelation 12:9). The 4 fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates who will lead this army (Revelation 9:14-16) could employ it to make mankind utterly desperate before its complete takeover by Lucifer and the Antichrist mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9 to 13:18). For when this army starts killing 1/3 of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin one of the biggest deceptions ever wrought on humanity. For the (human) Antichrist, who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the President of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco, could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels, and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

It is at this point that Lucifer and his fallen angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in gigantic, magnificent golden spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars", Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon. The "Champ de Mars" is the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. After landing there, Lucifer, a literal 7-headed, red dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), could emerge in great splendor and command his angels to capture the army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders, who could then pretend to defect from serving YHWH to serving Lucifer. Lucifer could then confirm that he has come to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, who he could say is his only-begotten "Son", called upon him (like in an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the unsaved world as the saviors of mankind. And the unsaved world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even YHWH God's main army.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist and a speaking (possibly android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a (possibly scarification) mark of the Antichrist either on their right hand or forehead, consisting of either the Antichrist's name or some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18). After Lucifer and the Antichrist have ruled the world for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send 7 vials of wrath against the unsaved world (Revelation 16).

Near the end of the 7 vials, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) to battle against YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon as a staging area, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:2-21).

--

Leviishere said in post 212:

The demons and Satan was tossed out of heaven in ancient times. They have always been there. When they were tossed out, where did they go? A place below heaven? Which would be our universe? It makes plenty of sense, when you really think about it.

That's right.

For when Ephesians 6:12 refers to "high places", the original Greek word is "epouranios" (G2032), which means "above the sky" (Strong's Greek Dictionary). So Ephesians 6:12 means that some evil spiritual forces reside in places above the atmosphere, in outer space.

 

[Bible2]

LastSeven said in post 213:

I believe the mark of the beast is spiritual . . .

Actually, the "mark of the beast" (Revelation 13:16-17, Revelation 16:2) will be a literal, physical mark which will be visible to people, so they can easily tell in every situation whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17). It will be visible also because the original Greek of Revelation 13:16 shows that the mark will be placed only "on" (epi), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads. Also, it will be placed on people probably by scarification. For in Revelation 13:16, one of the definitions of the original Greek word (charagma: G5480) translated as the "mark" is "a scratch or etching" (Strong's Greek Dictionary), and scarification is the scratching or etching (i.e. the cutting) of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason that people will be given the mark in Revelation 13:16, in the context of what had just been shown previously in Revelation 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people that they are loyal worshippers of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his image (Revelation 13:4,8,15), just as some Luciferians today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

The mark will consist of only the Antichrist's name "or" some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17-18), meaning that the mark will be the Antichrist's name for some people and a representation of the gematrial number of his name for other people. And the mark will be placed only on the right hand (probably on the palm) "or" on the forehead (Revelation 13:16), meaning that it will be placed on the right hand of some people and on the forehead of other people.

Those who refuse to receive the Antichrist's mark won't be allowed to buy or sell anything (Revelation 13:17), and they will be executed by being beheaded if they refuse to worship the Antichrist and his image (Revelation 13:15, Revelation 20:4). Christians must be willing to suffer this fate rather than agree to receive the Antichrist's mark or worship him or his image, for those people who agree to do these things, even if they are Christians, will suffer God's wrath in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-13), while those Christians who refuse to do these things, even though they will be beheaded, will subsequently be physically resurrected into immortality (along with the rest of the obedient church of all times) at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). And even before their resurrection, at the moment of their death, their still-conscious souls will be brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43,46).

In the future, when the world begins to worship the Antichrist as God (Revelation 13:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their right palm, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to have their loved ones' initials placed by scarification on their palm (cf. also Isaiah 49:16, Jeremiah 48:37, Leviticus 19:28, Leviticus 21:5). Other of the Antichrist's worshippers could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their forehead, thinking (mistakenly) that they are fulfilling the Christian idea of Revelation 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will put God's name visibly on the forehead of obedient Christians (Revelation 3:12). The Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, who will be the one to cause everyone to be marked with the Antichrist's mark (Revelation 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the False Prophet) is Jesus returned. (But he won't say that he is Christ, for he and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh: 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7.)

Instead of having the Antichrist's name engraved on their right hand or forehead, some of his worshippers will have the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17c-18) engraved on their right hand or forehead. But because some people could refuse to have "666" placed on their body, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people, it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". For example, it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", or "111", or "WWW", or "VVV", or "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the 6th letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", or a "1", and it is transliterated into English as either a "W" or a "V". Also, 2 thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" has a numerical value of 6 in English gematria.

In an awful coincidence (or maybe it is not just a coincidence), "FFF" also stands for an extremely powerful type of nuclear bomb: Fission-Fusion-Fission. Could this be the type of bomb which the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will employ to burn up the cities of the nations at the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 17:12,16,17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2,11)?

The "WWW" which has been placed on many internet addresses, and the "|| || ||" which has been placed across many UPC codes on products (i.e. they have a "||" at the beginning, middle, and end of their UPC codes), are harbingers of when Lucifer will give the Antichrist ownership of everything on the earth (Revelation 13:2b; cf. Luke 4:7), and of the Antichrist placing his "brand" on everything, like how a rancher places his "brand" on all of his cattle. For both "WWW" and "|| || ||" are disguised representations of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name: 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). But Revelation 13:16 isn't fulfilled by some internet addresses having a "WWW", nor by some products having "|| || ||" on their UPC codes. For Revelation 13:16 refers only to when people will be given the Antichrist's mark, on either their right hand or forehead.

Those assigned to have the mark placed on their forehead (instead of on their right hand) (Revelation 13:16) could be an elite, illumined, cognoscenti class of Gnostic Luciferians who alone will have been given knowledge of the ultimate secrets of the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism. The Antichrist will be both a Luciferian, a worshipper of Lucifer/Satan the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), and a Gnostic, someone who denies that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and forbids marriage and the eating of meat (1 Timothy 4:1-3). The cream of his cognoscenti could be a faux 144,000, consisting of male virgins (as a counterfeit of Revelation 14:4) who have never eaten meat. If they receive on their forehead the mark of the Antichrist's name (instead of a representation of the number of his name) (Revelation 13:17), this will be as a counterfeit of YHWH's 144,000 in Revelation 14:1. But the Antichrist won't pretend that he is YHWH, just as he won't pretend that he is Christ. Instead, as a Gnostic, he will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And his Gnostic denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ.

LastSeven said in post 213:

I believe the mark of the beast is spiritual because it's been around since day 1. The mark of God is described in Exodus and Dueteronomy, and this is a spiritual mark based on ones actions and desires.

Exodus 13
And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the Lord brought thee out of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 6
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:... 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Note that just as Abraham received outward circumcision as a sign of his inward righteousness by conscious faith in YHWH God (Romans 4:11), so the future mark of the beast (if it is willingly received) will serve as an outward sign that someone is a conscious worshipper of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his speaking image (Revelation 13:4-18).

Also, Exodus 13:9,16, like Deuteronomy 6:8 and Deuteronomy 11:18, doesn't contradict that the mark of the beast (Revelation 13:16) will be a literal, visible mark, possibly applied by scarification. Similarly, Exodus 13:9 doesn't contradict that the forbidden "cuttings" in Leviticus 19:28 and Leviticus 21:5b were literal, visible marks, applied by scarification. And the "cuttings" on the hands in Jeremiah 48:37 referred to scarification marks. And the marks of Jesus on Paul's body (Galatians 6:17) were literal, visible marks (i.e. scars from persecution). And the future mark of God's name on obedient believers (Revelation 22:4, Revelation 3:12) will be a literal, visible mark (miraculously "written" on them).

LastSeven said in post 213:

God would not condemn you to hell if the gestapo break down your door and force a microchip into your hand.

The Antichrist could force everyone to receive an injected RFID microchip, which could be used as both an identification device and a debit card. But the microchip would be separate from the "mark of the beast" (Revelation 16:2, Revelation 13:16-18). For the latter will be visible to people, so they can easily tell in every situation, even one without electricity, whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17).

LastSeven said in post 213:

God would not condemn you to hell if the gestapo break down your door and force a microchip into your hand.

Our salvation will be taken away if we worship the Antichrist and his image, and by our own volition receive his mark on our right hand or forehead (Revelation 14:9-12). In the original Greek, "receive" in Revelation 14:9 is in the active voice, not the passive voice. If the mark is forced on us against our will, such as through scarification while we are under restraints, or while we are passed out on forcibly-administered drugs or after a beating or torture session, then after we are released or regain our consciousness, as soon as it is possible for us to do so, we should formally renounce and reject the mark verbally to God, and also completely deface the mark physically, such as with further scarification (by our own hand) in the sign of the Cross of Jesus Christ, placed over the mark of the Antichrist. And we could also write "YHWH" over the mark with a permanent marker, to make our true loyalty clear to all.

 

[Bible2]

LastSeven said in post 216:

And in order to destroy the old covenant he had to destroy the physical temple.

Note that the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law ended not at the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

LastSeven said in post 216:

Jesus warns of a localized event, in saying "let those in Judea flee to the mountains".

Regarding "Judaea" (Matthew 24:16), note that this doesn't have to mean 1st century AD Judaea. For there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) still today. They contain mostly Gentile believers, not just Jewish believers. The church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the church, both Gentiles and Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist's persecution of the church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up, and the Antichrist himself sits in the temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the church will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), so that the basic principle of Matthew 24:16, of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution), would apply to believers around the world.

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents many different people in the church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents many different, protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up, they should flee into places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the church who will be living in places in the world other than Judaea should flee into other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of food, water, warm clothing, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they shouldn't carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

LastSeven said in post 216:

Secondly, in reading Luke we can see that "the abomination of desolation" (which Matthew and Mark both mention) is a reference to the armies surrounding Jerusalem.

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by an Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

LastSeven said in post 216:

Secondly, in reading Luke we can see that "the abomination of desolation" (which Matthew and Mark both mention) is a reference to the armies surrounding Jerusalem.

When Jesus says "ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies" (Luke 21:20), he is referring to the first part of Daniel 11:31: "And arms shall stand on his part". And when Jesus says "the desolation" in Luke 21:20, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31, just as in Matthew 24:15, he is referring to the "abomination of desolation" part of Daniel 11:31.

So Luke 21:20-23 isn't referring to 70 AD, nor (as is sometimes claimed) to the pillaging of Jerusalem which will occur at the very end of the future tribulation, right before Jesus' 2nd coming to save Jerusalem (Zechariah 14), but is referring to what will happen mid-tribulation, when the Antichrist will antitypically fulfill Daniel 11:31 at the start of his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), during which 3.5 years, Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles (Revelation 11:2b), which future treading down is what Luke 21:24 is referring to.

LastSeven said in post 216:

Jesus said that not one stone of the temple would be left on the other.

Note that the end of the 2nd temple building (also called Herod's temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring only to the single, 2nd temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

LastSeven said in post 216:

Jesus himself told us that these things would happen during that same generation . . .

Note that Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the tribulation, and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church "immediately after" the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).