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Featured The Aliens are going to laugh at earth cosmologists explaining 13.8 billion years from creation.

Discussion in 'Creationism' started by StevenMerten, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    There is a creation seminar going on at the edge of the universe. Earth’s brightest cosmologists are invited to be the guest speakers. Earth’s starships can travel at nearly the speed of light. It is a two hour trip. Earth’s brightest cosmologists begin to explain that the universe is 13.8 billion years old; all the Aliens start laughing. Earth cosmologists call home for help. The person on the other end of the line tell them that those people do not work there anymore, they died 13 billion years ago. This is Time Dilation. Realizing their error, earth cosmologists add 13 billion years, rather than two hours, to their calculations as to when creation happened. The Aliens are on the floor roaring with laughter.

    The Aliens start chanting, ‘Flat Time! Flat Time! Flat Time!’. One of the Aliens explains to earth’s cosmologists, ‘Has earth had scientists that thought the earth was flat? Well now let’s get you up to speed on how physical time works.’

    Physical time is a variable and not the constant that atheist cosmologist creationists want to make it out to be. Albert Einstein discovered Time Dilation and published his ‘Theory of Relativity’. Physical time slows down as velocity increases. It is said that at the, speed of light, time stops. So from the prospective of Aliens from all over the universe, from planets traveling at a whole spectrum of different velocities, the physical time from creation varies vastly. So stating that creation happened at a specific time, when physical time is a variable and not a constant, is meaningless.

    Earth’s cosmologists ask the Alien, ‘If they all knew this, why did so many come to our seminar?’. The Alien responds, ‘Because you come from earth where our Lord, God and Savior died for our sins. The Holy Spirit has sent the whole universe massive numbers of prophets telling of Jesus’ glory! Physical time may be a variable, but Christ’s Salvation is a constant throughout the Universe!’.

    Time dilation and space flight

    Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.

    Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation
     
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  2. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    The 13.7billion year figure is a result of astronomical measurements. Star light travels at the speed of light. Consequently looking into space is looking back in time. Star light travels at the speed of light.

    Distance is measured by various methods. Primarily, for distance galaxies by red shift and by knowing the brightness of certain types of super novae explosions. Combining all these resulted in the most distant galaxies being measure at 13.7 billion light years away, and thus 13.7 billion years for their light to travel to us.
     
  3. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello bcbsr,
    I am interested in Time Dilation. If you had a starship that can travel at the speed of light, how long would it take you to travel the 13.7 billion light years? Would it take you 13.7 billion years, or, according to Einstien's 'Theary of Reletivity', 0 hours?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  4. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    Space ships can't travel at the speed of light. They would have infinite mass.
     
  5. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello bcbsr,
    We are not interested in the details. We are interested in the effects of Time Dilation on God's Creation. Put the details of actually doing it aside, theoretically, how long does it take you to travel 13.7 billion light years if you are traveling at the speed of light? Does it take you 13.7 billion years to travel 13.7 billion light years or does it take 0 hours, according to Einstien's 'Theory of Reletivity'. Yes, those on earth are going to see your starship taking 13.7 billion years to travel 13.7 billion light years, but seated in the starship, traveling at the speed of light, according to Einstien's theory of reletivity, it takes you 0 hours. This is Time Dilation. Do you agree?
     
  6. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Of course you mean 0 hours from relative perspective of any hypothetically conscious creature traveling at that speed and not the actual time taken by the light itself to cover that distance.
     
  7. Papias

    Papias Listening to TW4

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    OK, time dilation is not easy to understand. I can explain the basics and do the calculations, and answer some questions.


    Right. His example did say "nearly". I'll come back to his story.

    Right, though the funny thing about time dilation is that they are both "actual time". Both are just as real as the other. What you mean is "not the time that a person on earth would observe."

    Misleading. Practically all modern cosmologists accept time dilation. Many of them are atheists, many Christian, many Hindu, many Jewish, etc. Time dilation does not make time into a independent variable, and in fact, is constant in it's own reference frame.

    Wrong. In fact, that's wrong in two ways. First, it's in our reference frame, the earth, which makes it absolutely constant to us. Secondly, even to other moving reference frames (say, that of the andromeda galaxy), the time dilation is practically nothing.

    Time dilation, in nearly all aspects of our lives and in practically all ways of looking at the age of the earth, is irrelevant. That's because the speeds of things in our galaxy are far, far below where you'd see significant time dilation.

    Time dilation is determined by a formula (I can give it if you want), where both the velocity and the speed of light are squared. That means that unless you get very close to the speed of light, going faster makes almost no real difference.

    For instance, take an unbelievably fast jet fighter, traveling at Mach 6 (6 times the speed of sound). Even at that incredible speed, it's time dilation is practically zero. 1 hour on earth takes 0.9999999999982 hours for the pilot.

    Even the crazy fast speed of the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago experience practically no time dilation. It's speed of 60,000 miles an hour works out to mean that 1 hour on earth was equal to 0.999999989 hours on the asteroid.

    That's so wrong that even calling it wrong is giving too much credit. That's like saying to my boss, when I stroll into work two hours late, that because I was moving in my car on the way in, time is a variable and has no meaning, so I'm not late. Of course I'd get fired.

    The fact that time is different in different reference frames in no way invalidates measurements of time. It's kinda like if I said "weight is different on the moon than on earth, so the fact that I've gained 30 pounds is meaningless! - we all need to remember that Jesus is the only constant weight, so the fact that I've gained 30 pounds means that you should be Christian!"

    There are plenty of good ways to share our good news. That's not one of them.

    The story at the top doesn't work. It's kinda cute, but it doesn't do you any favors.

    Here is a good explanation of time dilation, though your post from wikipedia is correct anyway.



    In Christ-

    Papias
     
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  8. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Yes, as opposed to the time experienced aboard our hypothetical ship traveling at luminal velocity.
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I look forward to the movie in this instance.
     
  10. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello All,

    So Papias, i am not really interested in the fighter pilot speed. What do you have in regards to fast movers on galaxies? If a person took off in their near light speed starship, just as the big bang went off, and then stopped in at the Alien convention on creation, creation would have only been a couple hours or days ago for him. Do we have any known galaxies traveling at speeds that would put creation at only a million years ago? Maybe there are some slow velocity galaxies where creation was a trillion years ago. Do you know of any planets traveling at speeds where creation was only a hundred thousand years ago or ten thousand years ago? What do you have?

    I kind of would find it hard to believe that science is talking about spaceflight where man can travel ten, fifty or a hundred billion light years, in one man’s life time of sixty years, and yet we would not know of any fast moving planets or stars.
     
  11. Papias

    Papias Listening to TW4

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    It's easy for everyone to forget the many orders of magnitude between speeds, and how incredibly fast the speed of light is.

    Here is an article on a fast object. It's moving at over 2,000,000 miles an hour! But even that is only 1% the speed of light, so 1 hour to us is still 0.99995 hours to it. Not much time slowdown - no one could notice that difference.

    At that amount of slowdown, the time from the signing of the declaration of independence would be 8 hours less (200 years minus 8 hours instead of 200 years).

    Found: The Fastest-Approaching Object in the Universe

    This star is moving 10 times as fast as that. at 26,000,000 mph. That gives a time dilation of .995 a lot more, but still not noticeable. 1 hour for us is 59:45 for it instead of 60:00.

    Fastest Star in the Galaxy Has a Strange Origin

    I don't think any scientists are talking about that. Do you have an article showing them doing so? I think that this is why there is talk of hibernating people somehow - so they can wake up after all that time.

    In Christ -

    Papias
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  12. -57

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    Don't forget about gravity and how it effects time.

    One theory has the earth in a gravity well when God was creating and spreading out the star which were not subject to the same gravitation that the earth was subject to. Time on earth relative to the galaxies was much slower. Earth rose out of the well and now time is pretty much the same throughout the universe.
     
  13. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello Papias,
    I will bring it down. You had indicated that Wikipedia was correct on space flight and Time dilation.

    Time dilation and space flight

    Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.
    Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation
     
  14. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    So what is holding planets back from closer light speeds? You have the mass of one septilion stars on the tip of a needle, and it explodes (the Big Bang), this sounds like a near light speed kick off for all mass in the universe. Is it gravity, of the masive mass heading in the opposite direction, pulling back on them?
     
  15. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    at the speed of light, an observer would pass through all point of the universe simultaneously.
     
  16. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    Source that the Big Bang was a "near light speed explosion"?
     
  17. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello Armoured. I was asking, not stating. The mass of one septillion stars on the head of a pin is a lot of explosive power. So if you know how fast they were moving out ward from that point, in the first few nanoseconds, please tell us.
     
  18. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Do we all agree that physical time is a variable and not a constant?

    If you were traveling at light speed (yes I know this is physically impossible, let’s use theoretically) from the first nanosecond of the Big Bang to today, it would take 0 minutes. If you were traveling at 0 velocity, from the time the Big Bang went off, to today, then creation will have occurred an infinite amount of time ago.

    So you take a starship and travel at near the speed of light, 13.8 billion light years to the Alien conference, at the edge of the universe, and it took you a couple hours, you have just traveled the equivalent distance that light has traveled from the first nanoseconds of the Big Bang, and you did it in two hours. On earth, creation now happened 27.6 billion years ago. You fly two hours back to earth, after the Alien conference on creation, now the Big Bang happened 41.4 billion years ago. Wow, a lot can happen back home while you are away at a conference!

    So you are back at home after spending a week away from home at the Alien conference on Creation. Now your instruments are telling you that creation happened 41.4 billion years ago. A colleague Alien calls to ask you how long ago creation happened, because he lost his notes at the spaceport. After being laughed out of the Alien conference on creation, you are not going to make that mistake again. So you ask him what his planets velocity is. The Alien asks, 'What? Why do you need to know that, is not the time of God’s creation of the universe a constant for all of us in the universe? ‘No, it is not’, you answer. What is your planets velocity? The Alien answers 0 velocity. ‘Then creation occurred an infinite number of years ago’, you answer. You hear some snickering on the other end of the line and slam the phone down.

    Do we all agree that physical time is a variable and not the constant you were lead to believe by modern cosmologists.
     
  19. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    So why did God limit us to not traveling faster than the speed of light? It would seem that if we can travel at 0 velocity we should be able to travel at infinite velocity. We should be able to do this, at least, in a theoretically way, anyway. The answer is that traveling at different velocities varies physical time. If you are traveling at a velocity faster than someone else, then you are traveling into the slower person's future. Velocity verses physical time, is a time machine. At the speed of light, physical time stops. If God allowed you to travel faster than the speed of light (FTL), now you have a time machine to go back in time. God allows us to travel into the future, simply by adding velocity, but God does not allow us to travel back in time, by adding too much velocity. Why? Well I think we can imagine why God does this.

    I, myself, do not want to travel back in time. I just want to supercharge light to travel faster than the speed of light. This way I can send a picture of myself, holding the winning lottery numbers, back to myself, in order to buy the winning Lottery numbers. I only ask for a little give on God’s Law not allowing light to travel faster than the speed of light. LOL
     
  20. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    0 velocity relative to what? This seems to be a problem for many, they think about velocity and time in contexts of a fuxed universal background. No such fixed backdrop exists. It's all relative, that's kind of the point
     
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