The 7's are INSIDE each other - they CANNOT be an end-to-end future timetable

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Only a remnant did survive coming out of WWII, the holocaust.
No; There were far more Jews in America and places like New Zealand and many thousands did escape the Holocaust. That Punishment did not come from the Lord.
We are the parable of the fig tree generation.
Agreed. I am 80 now, but I confidently expect to see the end time events, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.
Just like Pretribbers you too apparently think the day of the Lord can happen without it even involving the 2nd coming of Christ. The day of the Lord is what comes like a thief in the night, and so does Christ.
How can you believe this? The idea that the Day of wrath is the Day of Jesus Return, is quite contradictory to what the Prophets say. That idea means you have totally mixed up the sequence of Revelation. Not a wise thing to do.
If I have misrepresented your view, please clarify
Thank you Douggg, you do have the end times events correct as Prophesied, which is my belief.

Two points: the holy Land will be quickly regenerated soon after it has all been cleared and cleansed. Isaiah 29:17, Isaiah 49:19, Isaiah 51:3, +

The 7 years of the Gog army clean up and then the 7 year Peace treaty are both within the final 15-20 years of this age. They are not concurrent, but may overlap.
I could be wrong.
As there is no 'rapture to heaven' for anyone other than the two Witnesses, you are wrong.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

God cares about his creation as well as us.
Dec 17, 2010
8,230
1,701
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟139,901.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I am not understanding the point you are making. The timeframes in Revelation, Daniel 9:27, and Ezekiel 39 validate each other.

The first thing to note is that this imagery comes from Ezekiel 38 and 39, which itself was highly symbolic and not literal.

Gog is a personification of enemy nations, much like Ezekiel does with other names like Oholah/Oholibah in Chapter 23. Gog is an ancient name from Genesis invoking powerful nations from the distant past. Gog symbolises all God's powerful human enemies.

Now the judgement imagery is thorough and awful destruction - but not literal - because it's inconsistent and contradictory. Then the mopping up exercise with the highly symbolic seven months to bury the dead and 7 years to burn all the weapons (as fuel for Israel) is also inconsistent, because it takes 7 months to bury the dead but the dead are all going to be eaten by the birds of prey, etc. Also, seven means perfection: Israel is given the perfect amount of time to heal from her enemies.
Watch the Bible Project on this second half of Ezekiel for more context. 7 minutes (Nearly 1.3 million views.)

I think the Bible Project was under pressure to include the first 'literal' interpretation of this temple because of the huge rise of the various Millennialisms in the United States after the popularisation of the Scofield study bible. No other force (except maybe for Hollywood and the rise of The Omen movies etc) has shaped American eschatology as profoundly. But the Bible Project hints at the fact that they side with the symbolic reading of the temple - given that everything else in Ezekiel is symbolic.

Now, what does all this mean for a literal futurist reading of Revelation? Basically it adds no credibility whatsoever to a literalist future timetable for a war involving Gog. Ezekiel's Gog is as symbolic and metaphorical as it is in Revelation. Futurist literalistic assumptions - so desperate to plead the case for their 'literal timetable' - have run roughshod over the evidence we have from Ezekiel and Revelation that both books tell us REAL theological truths in profoundly symbolic language.

The Bible Project (nearly 2.1 million views) shows how John includes Gog in a vast collection of all the symbolic metaphors of the enemies of God. Futurists read Gog as some sort of literal prediction to decipher. But seen in context, both Ezekiel and Revelation are clear that it is a symbolic genre of literature using powerful metaphors to preach theological truths to encourage all Christians, for the last 2000 years and beyond.

Reducing it to some sort of future timetable for the last 7 years is not sensible, robs it of meaning for the Christians of the last 2000 years, and will have Christians fighting over their literalistic timetables for all time to come. It even risks the paranoia associated with death-cults like Jonestown and the Branch Davidians at Waco, Texas. It's got to stop! John was writing a symbolic sermon to his generation for ALL Christians to be encouraged, for all time to come.

upload_2021-7-22_11-55-35.jpeg
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,691
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,797.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Gog is a personification of enemy nations, much like Ezekiel does with other names like Oholah/Oholibah in Chapter 23. Gog is an ancient name from Genesis invoking powerful nations from the distant past. Gog symbolises all God's powerful human enemies.
Magog is the name in Genesis, not Gog. Magog was a son of Japheth.

Gog, a different person, was latter on in history and is in 1Chronicles 5:4.

I don't of anyone who believes that Gog in Ezekiel 38-39 is the original person in the bible in 1Chronicles5:4.

And to say that Gog symbolizes all God's powerful human enemies is a miss, because (1) it takes place in the latter days and latter years (2) Gog comes from the direction of the land of Magog, v2. And Gog's allies include Persia (Iran), Ethiopa, and Libya, v5 And the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, v6.


Then the mopping up exercise with the highly symbolic seven months to bury the dead and 7 years to burn all the weapons (as fuel for Israel) is also inconsistent, because it takes 7 months to bury the dead but the dead are all going to be eaten by the birds of prey, etc.
It doesn't say the dead are all going to be consumed by the scavenger birds and animals.

There will be too many dead bodies for the birds and animals to eat them all.

I don't see any basis for denying what it is written of taking seven months to bury the dead, and during that time, full time employment searching the land for corpses to bury, v14.
Now, what does all this mean for a literal futurist reading of Revelation? Basically it adds no credibility whatsoever to a literalist future timetable for a war involving Gog. Ezekiel's Gog is as symbolic and metaphorical as it is in Revelation.
Jesus Himself is speaking in Ezekiel 39:v21-29. You did not address nor acknowledge that. There is zero chance of the Ezekiel 38-39 the event of Gog/Magog not to be a literal latter days, latter years event.

God will destroy Gog's army supernaturally, by earthquake, pestilences, hailstone, fire and brimstone, torrential rain, and cause confusion within his army, that Gog is fighting himself, v19-23.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Reducing it to some sort of future timetable for the last 7 years is not sensible,
Making Revelation into an allegory or just a series of homilies, is beyond insensible; it is a rejection of scripture. Of plainly stated prophesies, that were always in the future of the world until the time Appointed for their fulfilment.
Because they mostly didn't apply to us before now, is no reason to think they never will.
this imagery comes from Ezekiel 38 and 39, which itself was highly symbolic and not literal.
The 'highly symbolic' army will be buried in a actual valley; the Wadi Abarim, in Southern Jordan, beside the Dead Sea, on the Kings Highway. Which I have travelled on and the road winds down into that deep valley, over a bridge, then winds back up the other side.

You make it all out to be symbolic? Symbolic of what exactly?
The reality will happen, just as prophesied, or why is it told to us in such detail?
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,691
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,797.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Reducing it to some sort of future timetable for the last 7 years is not sensible, robs it of meaning for the Christians of the last 2000 years, and will have Christians fighting over their literalistic timetables for all time to come. It even risks the paranoia associated with death-cults like Jonestown and the Branch Davidians at Waco, Texas. It's got to stop! John was writing a symbolic sermon to his generation for ALL Christians to be encouraged, for all time to come.
Branch Davidians and Jonestown and Heaven's Gate cult were the result of false prophets and false teachers. Jesus warned against following those.

But to say that futurist eschatology of understanding the end times prophecies in the bible is to be blamed for them has no merit. There were false prophets, false teachers, false messiahs back in the days of the first century as well.
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
It doesn't say the dead are all going to be consumed by the scavenger birds and animals.

There will be too many dead bodies for the birds and animals to eat them all.

I don't see any basis for denying what it is written of taking seven months to bury the dead, and during that time, full time employment searching the land for corpses to bury, v14.
Did you know in the ongoing Syrian conflict, different groups of soldiers are constantly finding mass burial remains of former soldiers and locals just dumping bodies as they come and go? There still is not a general place where they can peacefully place all into one mass grave. This area of the ME is already turning into a recycling place of equipment and dead bodies.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
The moment you or I - or even the guy with a Doctorate in theology and Ancient Hebrew language and Jewish symbols - open our mouth and utter ANYTHING other than direct quotes from Scripture, we are speaking with 'human reasoning'. There's wise, informed, godly biblical human reasoning and bad reasoning. No one here can claim to be Spirit-breathed - that's for Apostles only.

Your claim to just read what is there is pretty much what all the other futurists here claim - they're not doing advanced theology but just reading the words that are there. So why do we have so many other interpretations from other people that also claim to just 'read what is there'? Because it's not peer-reviewed theology - just amateur theology - that comes to so many thousands of different individualistic and eccentric views.

But just reading what is there does not tell modern 21st Century people what all these symbols actually MEAN - what do DO about this book. For that you need certain theological tools - like reading ancient Hebrew and Greek and knowledge of the whole bible, and even ancient cultures and audiences. That's why I go to experts that have demonstrated reliability across broad commentary in various books of the bible. What have you done to demonstrate your expertise in this? For make no mistake - any time you open your mouth - you are offering your own interpretation from your own presuppositions, church experience, culture, and 'human reasoning.' I have found that people that condemn 'theology' just want an excuse to condemn other vastly more qualified experts than themselves - and then offer their own theology. And sadly it's all an excuse to justify inexpert, poor theology at that.

Why do we have so many different theories? It is simple: very few if any follow the scriptural prescription: read a scripture, meditate the scripture day and night, pray in the Spirit and wait on God for wisdom on that scripture. He is the Author and He knows what He was thinking when He caused people to write.

I read Revelation over a hundred times - for three years - determined not to try to understand any of it. I just waited on God to teach if He chose to. Then one day...

One day, I was just minding my own business, reading in Daniel about the abomination happening in the "midst" of the week. The moment my eyes and mind got to the word "Midst," the Holy Spirit spoke to me saying, "you could find the exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in the book of Revelation." I don't mean I was having a dream. I was wide awake. I don't mean I ate too much pizza: I had none. I heard words. It was the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to me. My spirit man answered Him:
"How would I find that?"

The Holy Spirit answered: "Whenever I mentioned an event that will start at the midpoint, and go to the end of the week, I always mentioned the 3 1/2 years. When you find these mentions of the 3 1/2 years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint."

At this time, I already knew there were five different mentions of the 3 1/2 years: two as 1260 days, two as 42 months, and one as time, times and half of time. So I understood immediately what He was saying. Then, almost as an afterthought, He added, "In fact, you could find the entire 70th week, 'clearly marked.'" When He said this, I knew in my Spirit that all three points would use the same marker, so when I found what was marking the midpoint, I would easily find the beginning and end of the 70th week.

Jesus had said for those in Judea to flee the moment they see the abomination. We see that fleeing begin in 12:6. Therefore, the abomination and division point must be only seconds before 12:6. I backed up verse by verse looking for a marker. I found the 7th trumpet and knew in my spirit I had found what He sent me to find. I rushed to the 7th vial and read "it is done." Then I was convinced. But I then rushed to the 6th seal and read of the 30 minutes of silence and thought: what a perfect way to start the 70th week.

Since I knew then that the first seals were not in the 70th week, I began meditating on chapters 4 & 5. God did not disappoint me. He spoke several times teaching me there, showing me clearly that the seals are not in the 70th week: it does not begin until the 7th seal is opened, which allows the book to be opened, which probably contains the entire 70th week.

The 70th week is marked by 7's: the 7th seal, the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial.
The first seals were opened as soon as Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down.
Seal 1 is to represent the church sent out with the gospel.
Seals 2-4 are to represent the devil trying to stop the advance of the gospel. God limited them to only 1/4 of the earth - without a doubt the 1/4 centered on Jerusalem where the gospel began.
Seal 5 are the martyrs of the church age. The rapture will not come until the final martyr.
Seal 6 starts the Day of the Lord and God's wrath.

The rapture then will be between the 5th and 6th seals. God is waiting on the last church age martyr.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
I think it's great how the Bible Project (over 4 million views) point out the way the 7's are INSIDE each other like Matryoshka dolls rather than in sequence.

That's John's primary visual aid that shows Revelation is thematic, not linear.

It describes this phase of history after Jesus ascension and before his return.
It does not prescribe a specific sequence of events in the future - it cannot.
Time inside time inside time makes no sense and simply is not a timetable.
But it being a series of themes that John uses to roughly describe what the last 2000 years would be like - well - that makes much more sense of this symbolic literature.

Please watch the following 2 videos by the Bible Project.

Who is The Bible Project?

Tim went on to pursue a degree in theology from Western Seminary in Portland and a Ph.D. in Hebrew Bible and Jewish Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Tim’s early research and writing interests focused on the manuscript history of the Bible and the formation of the biblical canon. He really loves ancient Greek and Hebrew texts!

After years of ministry as a local church pastor, Tim now serves as the Chief Education Officer for BibleProject and is an adjunct professor at Western Seminary. Tim is fascinated with the literary artistry and design of the Bible, and he is committed to helping people understand how the whole story works together and leads us to Jesus.
Tim Mackie PhD in Hebrew Bible, BibleProject Co-Founder | BibleProject™
John saw a book sealed with 7 seals. All seven will be required to be opened before the book can be opened. When the final seal is opened (the 7th) then the book is opened. Then what happens? 7 angels are given 7 trumpets. Then TIME passes and finally the 7th trumpet is sounded. (They are sounded one after another in order.)

The 7th seal is the official start of the 70th week of Daniel. The week begins with the first trumpet judgment.

The man of sin moves to Jerusalem (Chapter 11:1-2) Then the two Witnesses show up. Then 3 plus days later, the 7th trumpet is sounded in heaven. (the man of sin has just entered the temple) Soon after the 7th trumpet, the man of sin changes into the Antichrist Beast of Rev. 13. Then some time later the False Prophet shows up. Then some time later the false prophet comes up with the idea of an image and a mark. They begin working on both. (Rev. 13)

Then just before they begin forcing people to take the mark, God sends angels to warn people to serve God and DON'T receive the mark. (Rev. 14)

Then the days of GT that Jesus spoke of will begin. The beheaded saints begin to show up in heaven. (Rev. 15) FINALLY the vials are poured out, and finally the 7th vial is poured out AT THE VERY END of the week. The 7th vial MARKS the end of the week.

Therefore John's Chronology is faultless and has no need of rearranging.
Linear is the key to understanding.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,691
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,797.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
One day, I was just minding my own business, reading in Daniel about the abomination happening in the "midst" of the week. The moment my eyes and mind got to the word "Midst," the Holy Spirit spoke to me saying, "you could find the exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in the book of Revelation." I don't mean I was having a dream. I was wide awake. I don't mean I ate too much pizza: I had none. I heard words. It was the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to me. My spirit man answered Him:
"How would I find that?"
The abomination of desolation must take place 1335 days before Jesus returns.

It will be in the midst of the 70th week, but not the exact mid-point. (the exact mid-point is in Revelation - but as the day the two witnesses are killed by the beast.)

Regarding the aod, it will be on day 1185 of the 2520 day 7 years that the abomination of desolation will be setup in the Holy Place..

1185 + 1335 = 2520

The kjv in Daniel 9:27 says "midst" of the week, not midpoint. The midpoint would be day 1260.

1185 + ( 1290 days +45 days ) = 2520

1290 days from day 1185, the sixth seal event of the sign of the son of Man in heaven will take place, Matthew 24:29-30a.

Which causes the kings of the earth, in terror, to assemble their armies at Armageddon in the next 45 days, with the intent of making war on Jesus, to keep Him from executing judgment on them.

Then, Jesus returns on day 2520, coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, Matthew 24:30b.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,691
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,797.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
@iamlamad

These are the major events, in order, to which the timeline must be structured.

1. confirmation of the covenant to begin the 7 years, by the Antichrist.

1. the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God - the transgression of desolation, midst of the week.

2. the person killed and brought back to life - as the beast.

3. the image made of the beast, placed on the temple mount - the abomination of desolation, 1335 days before Jesus returns. Midst of the week.

4. beast wars against the two witnesses - killed on day 1260, the midpoint of the 70th week.

5. the beast ruling the remaining 42 month, unhampered by the two witnesses.

6. Satan cast down to earth having a time/times/half times left

7. 1290 days from when the abomination of desolation setup - the sign of the Son of Man in heaven

8. kings, in terror, assemble their armies to make war on Jesus.

9. the 7th, final, bowl of God wrath poured out on the world, the great earth quake, the crushing hail

10. Jesus returns, coming in the clouds of heaven in power and great glory, to end the great tribulation.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Your questions are flawed because they do not recognize that Jesus is God.
What do you mean? I certainly believe that Jesus is God and my questions do not imply otherwise.

King David's throne was in Jerusalem. In Jerusalem is where Jesus's earthly throne will be.
Do you believe it will be a literal physical throne that He will sit on?

But Jesus's throne will be in the temple, A temple does not exist in Jerusalem. So how can the throne Jesus will sit on, as the King of Israel, exist right now?
If it doesn't exist now then how can it be David's throne? I'm trying to get you to explain your understanding of what it means for Jesus to inherit the throne of David.

Again, your questions does not recognize that Jesus, descended from David through his mother Mary, is God.
This comes across as if you're telling me that I don't recognize that Jesus is God, which is very offensive. I truly have no idea why you're saying this.

Jesus prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37-38 said in Matthew 23:39, that Jerusalem would not see him again, until he is welcomed - them saying blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

Earlier, upon enter Jerusalem, Jesus was hailed by his followers as the King of Israel, coming in the name of the Lord, but the religious leaders plotted to have him killed.

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

David was the King of Israel. And David was anointed king by the prophet Samuel. Jesus is God, but also descended from David, through Mary. "to anoint the Most Holy", the sixth thing in Daniel 9:24, is when Jesus is set as the King of Israel by Divine decree in Jerusalem following Armageddon, in Palms 2.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.


7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.



Do you somehow not know that Jesus already declared Himself the King of the Jews long ago? Why are you waiting for that to happen? It is up to God, not people, to decide who is King and when. And Jesus has been King for a long time already.

John 1:47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.” 48 “How do you know me?” Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.” 49 Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.” 50 Jesus said, “You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that.” 51 He then added, “Very truly I tell you,you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

Matthew 2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem 2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

Matthew 27:11 11 Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, “So You are the King of the Jews?” And Jesus said to him, “It is as you say.”
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,691
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,797.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
If it doesn't exist now then how can it be David's throne? I'm trying to get you to explain your understanding of what it means for Jesus to inherit the throne of David.
David's throne is to be the King of Israel.

Do you somehow not know that Jesus already declared Himself the King of the Jews long ago? Why are you waiting for that to happen? It is up to God, not people, to decide who is King and when. And Jesus has been King for a long time already.
Because the Jews have yet to welcome Jesus as the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:39.

Jesus is the rightful King of Israel (that's what those verses you quoted show), but the Jews are looking for another - and that person, coming in his own name, will be the Antichrist.

"Anti" King of Israel - instead of and against Jesus the rightful King of Israel.

If you (or anyone else) is going to understand bible prophecy, "Antichrist" is for when the person is the King of Israel (but not the rightful King of Israel).

While, differently, being "little horn" and "beast", the person is the king of the Roman Empire (in the end times).

If you can get those two things straight - your understanding of the end times will change drastically.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Because the Jews have yet to welcome Jesus as the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:39.

Jesus is the rightful King of Israel (that's what those verses you quoted show), but the Jews are looking for another - and that person, coming in his own name, will be the Antichrist.

"Anti" King of Israel - instead of and against Jesus the rightful King of Israel.
This is your problem. You think that people get to decide if a prophecy is fulfilled or not. But, the reality is that God decides if a prophecy is fulfilled or not. Regardless of the fact that many rejected Him, it did not take away the fact that Jesus confirmed that He was the King of the Jews long ago. Who are you to say otherwise when Jesus Himself said He was the King of the Jews?

You can't act like He wasn't King just because not everyone bowed to Him. Can we say that President Biden is not the President of the United States because half of the country disagrees with him? No, he is still the President.

If you (or anyone else) is going to understand bible prophecy, "Antichrist" is for when the person is the King of Israel (but not the rightful King of Israel).
No one is going to get a proper understanding of Bible prophecy from you. Fancy charts? Sure. Accurate Bible prophecy interpretation? No.

While, differently, being "little horn" and "beast", the person is the king of the Roman Empire (in the end times).

If you can get those two things straight - your understanding of the end times will change drastically.
What I have straight is that you are wrong in your end times Bible prophecy interpretations at least 90% of the time.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,691
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,797.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
This is your problem. You think that people get to decide if a prophecy is fulfilled or not. But, the reality is that God decides if a prophecy is fulfilled or not. Regardless of the fact that many rejected Him, it did not take away the fact that Jesus confirmed that He was the King of the Jews long ago. Who are you to say otherwise when Jesus Himself said He was the King of the Jews?
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.


The Antichrist becomes the Antichrist by being anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against the rightful King of Israel -Jesus.

Jesus - who the Jews, his own, received him not, have yet to say of Jesus - Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord.

The Jews will think the little horn person coming into the middle east following Gog/Magog is their messiah. And being anointed by the false prophet as the King of Israel will confirm the Mt Sinai covenant for 7 years. Beginning the false messianic age of the world saying peace and safety, until the day that he commits the transgression of desolation act, revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all.

The Jews at that point in time will turn to Jesus realizing their mistake.

The arch villain of the end times will also be descended from the Julio-Claudian line of Caesars - from Revelation 17:10-11. Which the person for the time he is not the King of Israel will be the little horn (7th Julio Claudian king) and the beast (8th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You shouldn't draw conclusions about all of Israel when these verses are only speaking of unbelievers in Israel and not believers. As Paul made clear, there was a remnant of believers in Israel in his day (Romans 11:5). Jesus Himself confirmed that He was the King (Matt 27:11). Why do you need more than that? No one else decides when He is King. He said He was King, so He was. No one could change that. And He still is today, of course.

It is not required for all of Israel to accept Him in order for Him to be their King. That is like thinking that the President of the United States can't be President unless everyone votes for him. I didn't vote for Biden, but, as an American, he's still my President whether I like it or not.
 
Upvote 0