The 4th Commandment had to go, and it did.

[listed]

Good grief - I have not encouraged anyone to forsake Jesus- I never said anyone is justified by the law that is what you keep saying I say. Once you are saved do you walk in lawlessness or newness of life? What is the newness of life? Is that will fully sinning, practicing lawlessness? Where exactly is the doctrine that states once we are saved now we walk according to the dictates of our own heart and that includes trampling the Father's commandments? His commandments are NOT bondge if you believe that you are misunderstanding Galatians. Head the warning in 2 Peter expecially 3:14
Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked(other translations say lawless)

You promote keeping the law as a requirement of the Christian changing what a person follows. You also thereby promote no following the leading of the Spirit.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No the Christian isn't graft into Israel. The Christian is graft into the Root (Jesus the Christ) also known as the Tree of Life from which we draw our nourishment. Jesus we abide in Him and He in us.

Jews of Israel are still the natural branches, and Gentiles the wild olive branches. True Israel has God at its center, and Jesus is God, so I don't have a problem with your semantics. But, God has not completely forsaken national Israel. He has a plan to save those remaining in the last 7 years of the history of the earth before Christ comes.

 

[1John2:4]

I believe you're very confused. You say the covenant are made exclusively with Israel and Judah and refuse the evidence found in Acts when it comes to salvation. Jesus said "whosoever will." Jesus didn't say Israel. There's not one single event in Acts showing any convert to Christianity was required to keep the law for any reason.

If a person can become unjustified by failure to observe the law it also means a person is justified by meeting the requirements of the law. What is really being said is a person is saved by keeping the law. If you want what I hear you saying is salvation is obtained through Jesus and keeping the law covenant. This isn't found in the NT. If you want to get into the performance of the flesh, the works of a Christian aren't the works of the law. They're good deeds or fruit as Gal 5:22-23 state. Paul also calls them good works in Ephesians 2:10. Paul can't say on one hand obey the law and on the other hand we're delivered from the law.

Many give the unregenerate all the reason they need to mock Christianity.

OK Let's try this
Biblical Definition of New Covenent
Jeremiah 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—(not the house of gentile) 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (again not house of gentile) after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.(not parts and pieces of His law) 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”(this does not say now we can do whatever we want)

You are telling me that I am suggesting that gentiles are to get circumsised and keep the whole law in order to be saved just as the judizers did in Galatians.

That is just not true, the gentlies were saved by repentace, accepting the blood of the lamb (new Covenant) and receiving the circumcision without hands (His Spirit) in Acts. Now they walk in newness of life not in lawlessness. Do you see how I am not saying they are saved BY keeping the law and being circumsised in the flesh? What I am not, and will not promote or teach is for brothers and sisters to practice lawlessness once they are saved and are part of the new Covenant through the Messiah.

 

[Traveling teacher]

Not all Israel are of Israel....strang verse
Romans 9:6
To the Jew first then to the gentile
Paul and apostles always went to the jew first!!!!

Gentiles were always included....ith Israel by faith
Ex. RAhab...Ruth
I believe ruth was of the lineage of Messiah...Davids grmother

It was always by faith....
There were believing Jews and unbelieving Jews
As ther are believing gentiles and unbelieving gentiles

Not all of Abrahams offspring were of Christ......followers
Remeber ismael and hagar...
Cast out the bondwoman and her child
Galations 4:21-31

If gentiles or anyone keeping the law to justify themselves
Then it is in vain to keep the Sabbath..or other law

Keep in historical context:
But remeber most gentile Christians 100 years ago kept the sbbath...only on Sunday

Many if not most gentile Christians today do not keep sabbath on saturdy or sunday.......not really a good thing

Its good to keep in mind that only the last geneartion really believed the sabbath to be abolished........

This is relevant because i know many in this new generation do not see the importance of church attendance.....
An exqmple of the reaults of abolishing the Sunday/saturday sabbath

 

[1John2:4]

You're refusing to note who the "you" is in Deuteronomy by voiding the rules of English. The word "you" is always qualified. In Deuteronomy it specifically is limited to Israel. It in no way means all mankind as you have been mislead to believe.

Your post says the requirements of the law have ben met in and through Jesus, byt we also have to meet these requirements. The Bible doesn't agree with you. from both testaments.

We are part of Israel

 

[1John2:4]

You promote keeping the law as a requirement of the Christian changing what a person follows. You also thereby promote no following the leading of the Spirit.

The law is spiritual do you suggest God is a house devided? This discussion is not at all fruitfull. If you want to do and teach against the law and the prophets than you can be least in the kingdom. I wish that was not the case.

Matthew 5:19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven
Shalom

 

[1John2:4]

Yes, I understand where you are coming from. But Christ gives us the Holy Spirit to write morality on our hearts and conscience. Paul even talks about his conscience been clear. And he also says IF, and its a big IF, if you walk in the Spirit you are not under the law. We are not to be lawless. That is fulfilling the lust of the flesh, but Romans 8:9 says, we are NOT in the flesh if we have the Spirit of Christ, and anyone who doesn't have the Spirit of Christ is not even His (saved.)

I suppose you are wondering what laws. They are the New Covenant commandments that have Christ at the forefront, and loving your neighbor as yourself which covers the last six of the old law. 1 John 3:23. The Ten Commandments (TC) does not even mention a Messiah. And the Sabbath was close to the center of the TC because it represented our future rest in Christ, our creator, but now we no longer have OT shadows, we have the real thing.

I understand where your heart is too and I know you are not attempting to promote lawlessness. My issue with being lead solely by the spirit is that we should test the spirits to the word. The just Bareens tested They tested the Paul's writings to the Tenakh, the NT had not been established. Perhaps if a spirit said to not keep Shabbat one would test it against Isaiah 56 to see what God said about Gentiles and His Sabbaths.

 

[JLB777]

The fourth commandment was a sign (like a banner) identifying the practitioners were under the law. That is why it had to go. That is why it went away.

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever does any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

TD

The Sabbath was around long before the law of Moses.

The Sabbath is a shadow of the rest to come, when Jesus returns and we reign with Him for a thousand years, on the Seventh Day.

Peter says it this way -

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 2 Peter 3;8-10


We will truly have rest when the enemy is bound in chains, and the wicked removed from the earth, and we have transformed, immortal bodies, with no sin in it, that strives against the Spirit of God.


That will be true rest.


That is the Sabbath that is to come, of which the weekly Sabbath points to.

Those who are Christ's, do indeed enter that rest to come.

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’”

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. Hebrews 4:1-11






JLB

 

[1stcenturylady]

I understand where your heart is too and I know you are not attempting to promote lawlessness. My issue with being lead solely by the spirit is that we should test the spirits to the word. The just Bareens tested They tested the Paul's writings to the Tenakh, the NT had not been established. Perhaps if a spirit said to not keep Shabbat one would test it against Isaiah 56 to see what God said about Gentiles and His Sabbaths.

As far as a church family, I need to be where the Spirit is taught and welcomed. I don't know of any Spirit-filled, practicers of their gifts of the Spirit, church that follows the Sabbath laws. At least, I've never heard of any. Do Messianics speak in tongues. I haven't a clue about that.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Sabbath is a shadow of the rest to come, when Jesus returns and we reign with Him for a thousand years, on the Seventh Day.

JLB

Do you remember when and what source you heard that the millennium corresponds to the creation week's 7th day? Just curious, because in the Epistle of Barnabas, the 15th chapter says that the preceding 6 days represent 6,000 years (before Christ comes again) and then the 7th day is the millennium. I want to know from you if there is another source besides this chapter in the EoB, because our Bible doesn't point to the millennium as the 7th day.

That chapter also states why we keep the 8th day.

 

[1John2:4]

You promote keeping the law as a requirement of the Christian changing what a person follows. You also thereby promote no following the leading of the Spirit.

As far as a church family, I need to be where the Spirit is taught and welcomed. I don't know of any Spirit-filled, practicers of their gifts of the Spirit, church that follows the Sabbath laws. At least, I've never heard of any. Do Messianics speak in tongues. I haven't a clue about that.

Actually many Messianics are big on the fruits of the spirit. The congregation near me - I have not attended yet but that is for another discussion (nothing to do with them I would love to fellowship with them eventually.) On their bio page they were started by some members that used to be Assemblies of God and they encourage gifts and Davidic dancing.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Actually many Messianics are big on the fruits of the spirit. The congregation near me - I have not attended yet but that is for another discussion (nothing to do with them I would love to fellowship with them eventually.) On their bio page they were started by some members that used to be Assemblies of God and they encourage gifts and Davidic dancing.

Interesting. I know the Seventh-day Adventists church I grew up in taught speaking in tongues today is of the devil.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Actually many Messianics are big on the fruits of the spirit. The congregation near me - I have not attended yet but that is for another discussion (nothing to do with them I would love to fellowship with them eventually.) On their bio page they were started by some members that used to be Assemblies of God and they encourage gifts and Davidic dancing.

There is a significant difference between Jewish Messianic Christians and Gentile Messianic Christians. Almost all of the Gentile Messianics I know of have come from Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. I am unsure as to why they wish to identify as Messianic Jews, but they do and have formed Messianic congregations which, usually, rarely have and Messianic Jews as members. That is probably because of the very large cultural differences. On the surface Messianic Gentiles have the trappings of Judaism, but the culture is really quite different.

 

[1John2:4]

Interesting. I know the Seventh-day Adventists church I grew up in taught speaking in tongues today is of the devil.

I agree with it if it is Biblical and there is an interpreter in the church otherwise it does not eddify. Some people i know speak to God in tounges I have heard them says it is amazing. I am not sure that I have that gift. I have not forgotten our Daniel discussion I am reveiwing the book of Daniel before I reply so I can give an educated respose, right now I am on 6 so it will probably tomorrow. Thanks again for showing so much kindness in your replies.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don't understand American Pentecostalism. When I go and teach the Bible in China I always speak in a foreign tongue (English) and have an interpreter. What I don't understand is why Christians fail to understand that another tongue is simply another language which has multiple speakers. Those who are bilungual can translate for others. Tongues is not babbling and meaningless gibberish.

 

[1John2:4]

There is a significant difference between Jewish Messianic Christians and Gentile Messianic Christians. Almost all of the Gentile Messianics I know of have come from Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. I am unsure as to why they wish to identify as Messianic Jews, but they do and have formed Messianic congregations which, usually, rarely have and Messianic Jews as members. That is probably because of the very large cultural differences. On the surface Messianic Gentiles have the trappings of Judaism, but the culture is really quite different.

I thought they were usually a mix some coming from actual Jewish heritage and others from the Gentiles. Hopefully someday I can go and ask some of these questions

 

[Traveling teacher]

Actually i do know jewish messianics who speak in tongues and babtized in the holy Spirit....

Even if they dont speak in tongues they are not antagonistic to what the. NT teaches...
Or would not be secationist......

Also from my understanding nonmessianic Jews believe in prophesy and highly regard it to be tested against the Spirit and word of God.......
As i met 1-2 who said yes we believe in prophesy....
When I was in Jerusalem....

Not 100% sure but I am thinking that unbelieving Jews may be more open to prohphesy than many Christians

 

[bbbbbbb]

I thought they were usually a mix some coming from actual Jewish heritage and others from the Gentiles. Hopefully someday I can go and ask some of these questions

I also thought that, but in my area that does not seem to be the case.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I agree with it if it is Biblical and there is an interpreter in the church otherwise it does not eddify. Some people i know speak to God in tounges I have heard them says it is amazing. I am not sure that I have that gift. I have not forgotten our Daniel discussion I am reveiwing the book of Daniel before I reply so I can give an educated respose, right now I am on 6 so it will probably tomorrow. Thanks again for showing so much kindness in your replies.

Yes, the GIFT of tongues in a church must be interpreted as it is FROM God. It is only given to a few. But the SIGN of tongues is given to all believers as a means of perfect prayer and praise TO God. So you already have it, ask God to release it.

 

[bugkiller]

I don't understand American Pentecostalism. When I go and teach the Bible in China I always speak in a foreign tongue (English) and have an interpreter. What I don't understand is why Christians fail to understand that another tongue is simply another language which has multiple speakers. Those who are bilungual can translate for others. Tongues is not babbling and meaningless gibberish.

Yes there is much fraud on this. I speak as an experienced insider.

bugkiller