The ‘transgender’ agenda

[Tom 1]

I don’t tend to look back with rose tinted spectacles, every generation has its problems and I think you’d have to go back to the garden of Eden to find perfection. But, the whole ‘be what you feel, do what you like’ mentality spreading across Europe is, I think, pretty disturbing. What do people become if they are no longer really anything at all, not identifiable by anything other than what they happen to feel or think about themselves, regardless of how that affects anyone else? What does it mean to find your true identity in Christ?
This is the article that prompted this chain of thought:
The female NHS nurse I asked for came with stubble

The female NHS nurse I asked for came with stubble

 

[Basil the Great]

As a dear friend of mine who turned 80 has said for a few years now, "it's a sign of the times". I do not know a lot about the subject, so I hesitate to say much. However, since experts say that the operation cannot be reversed, I guess they better be sure what they are doing.

 

[Tom 1]

As a dear friend of mine who turned 80 has said for a few years now, "it's a sign of the times". I do not know a lot about the subject, so I hesitate to say much. However, since experts say that the operation cannot be reversed, I guess they better be sure what they are doing.

Yes, and there is plenty of regret and remorse to go with it, sadly, although the lgbt brigade try to deny and play it down: Experience: I regret transitioning

 

[Humble me Lord]

Didn't even famous Bruce Jenner say he wanted to revert back to being a man?
I guess playing make believe even as a grownup gets to be tiring.

 

[Tom 1]

Didn't even famous Bruce Jenner say he wanted to revert back to being a man?
I guess playing make believe even as a grownup gets to be tiring.

I think the biggest elephant in the room in these debates about transgender etc is the high suicide rate. There are regular arguments made that ‘transgender’ people experience high suicide rates because they aren’t accepted. It seems obvious to me that these higher rates of suicide are clearly linked to the failure of their parents to help them to deal with reality and manage their own feelings.

 

[High Fidelity]

It's only a matter of time before a line has to be drawn and that's going to make a lot of people championing the liberty of fluidity very uncomfortable.

 

[Tom 1]

It's only a matter of time before a line has to be drawn and that's going to make a lot of people championing the liberty of fluidity very uncomfortable.

Yes I wonder too where it will all end

 

[Liza B.]

I don’t tend to look back with rose tinted spectacles, every generation has its problems and I think you’d have to go back to the garden of Eden to find perfection. But, the whole ‘be what you feel, do what you like’ mentality spreading across Europe is, I think, pretty disturbing. What do people become if they are no longer really anything at all, not identifiable by anything other than what they happen to feel or think about themselves, regardless of how that affects anyone else? What does it mean to find your true identity in Christ?
This is the article that prompted this chain of thought:
The female NHS nurse I asked for came with stubble

The female NHS nurse I asked for came with stubble

But this mantra of "be what you feel, do what you like" only applies to a few situations, of course. They don't REALLY mean it when they spout off about "tolerance". In the US are they tolerating bakers who don't want to bake cakes for gay weddings? Do they tolerate those who think we ought to be much more selective about who we let in to our nation? Of course not.

The tolerance only goes to a few points of sexuality, of course. Lots and lots in the Bible about that, I would say. At least indirectly.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I think the biggest elephant in the room in these debates about transgender etc is the high suicide rate. There are regular arguments made that ‘transgender’ people experience high suicide rates because they aren’t accepted. It seems obvious to me that these higher rates of suicide are clearly linked to the failure of their parents to help them to deal with reality and manage their own feelings.

They never mention the suicide rates that are the same after the operations...

Sadly, the small province I live in actually pays for people to have this "therapy" yet don't cover certain life saving procedures. And the sheep go right along with it or are too scared of being labelled a fill-in-the-blankphobe to speak out against it.

 

[Zoii]

I don’t tend to look back with rose tinted spectacles, every generation has its problems and I think you’d have to go back to the garden of Eden to find perfection. But, the whole ‘be what you feel, do what you like’ mentality spreading across Europe is, I think, pretty disturbing. What do people become if they are no longer really anything at all, not identifiable by anything other than what they happen to feel or think about themselves, regardless of how that affects anyone else? What does it mean to find your true identity in Christ?
This is the article that prompted this chain of thought:
The female NHS nurse I asked for came with stubble

The female NHS nurse I asked for came with stubble

Really its a non-issue. That sort of insensitivity amongst health professionals is uncommon. In my experience Drs n Nurses are usually very sensitive to patient needs and have a difficult job.

As to transgenderism in the community I doubt many, if any, here would say that transgenderism has impacted on the directly and negatively.

 

[FireDragon76]

For people with gender dysphoria, this is not a political issue, and the academic debate about gender came about after transsexualism had already begun to have increasing acceptance in certain parts of the medical community.

Medical malpractice and iatrogenic harm is possible in all sorts of conditions and this concern is not restricted to transsexualism. With every medical treatment, there are potential risks, including dissatisfaction. It's an art, not a science. Perhaps some ideologues on either side of this debate loose sight of that.

 

[HannahT]

I think the biggest elephant in the room in these debates about transgender etc is the high suicide rate. There are regular arguments made that ‘transgender’ people experience high suicide rates because they aren’t accepted. It seems obvious to me that these higher rates of suicide are clearly linked to the failure of their parents to help them to deal with reality and manage their own feelings.

I think that puts it very simplistically personally. Our culture tends to do that - place things in simplistic terms. I think it just helps them put it to bed, and then they don't have to look deeper.

There is alot going on in these people's life's. There are troubled people even with support. Suicide doesn't just magically stop, because they had support. I mean think about it! You don't feel comfortable in your own skin. With or Without Surgery - with or without support? That might never change.

So, placing it on the parents seems a bit lopsided. They aren't the magic bullet here. We are speaking of something much deeper here.

 

[Followers4christ]

A must watch when debating this topic:

 

[Tom 1]

I think that puts it very simplistically personally. Our culture tends to do that - place things in simplistic terms. I think it just helps them put it to bed, and then they don't have to look deeper.

There is alot going on in these people's life's. There are troubled people even with support. Suicide doesn't just magically stop, because they had support. I mean think about it! You don't feel comfortable in your own skin. With or Without Surgery - with or without support? That might never change.

So, placing it on the parents seems a bit lopsided. They aren't the magic bullet here. We are speaking of something much deeper here.

Yes I suppose that is a bit harsh, blaming the parents. It’s a kind of shorthand for ‘what is going on’? maybe. I only properly read the book of Dueteronomy years after first becoming a Christian, and it does seem to be the best basis for a society - many opportunities for grace and re-acceptance into society, but, on the other hand, harsh punishments to deal with issues that threaten the community as a whole. In Europe anyway there is a tendency towards the first, to give everyone a fair chance, which is good, but we don’t seem to be able to handle that freedom very well, it leads to a dilution of the very things that make society cohesive. Plato seems to have been prescient about this affect of democracy and relativism, as summed up here:
Plato Nails Democratic Man

The reality is that truth isn’t relative. But we don’t seem as a species to be able to abide by that without going too far one way or the other, despotism or the ‘do whatever your want’ mentality

 

[hedrick]

This is an area where I don't think we've converged on treatment. The problem seems real enough. It's been pretty well documented. Sex reassignment has actually been around longer than recent efforts for acceptance of transgendered people. Lots of studies have been quoted, but it's very hard to find good studies for the effects of sex reassignment. E.g. one of the best compared results after sex reassignment with the general population. That obviously doesn't tell us the effects of the surgery itself.

It's actually possible that sex reassignment might both alleviate sexual dysphoria and increase the probability of suicide, possibly in different people. I.e. it might help a significant fraction of the time, but make things worse in other cases. From what I can read, it simply isn't clear.

What is clear is that for Christians to blow off the problem doesn't help. Most of us aren't doctors, and aren't responsible for treating these people. The most we can do is be as supportive as possible to people around us who are going through this. Unfortunately that's not how all Christians are reacting.

There might be some benefit for Christians to accept and support people who are trying less drastic approaches such as cross-dressing. It appears that these approaches are significantly more common than full reassignment surgery, particularly for children and teenagers. If we were more accepting of people like this, there might be less pressure to do the surgery.

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

Didn't even famous Bruce Jenner say he wanted to revert back to being a man?
I guess playing make believe even as a grownup gets to be tiring.

I heard that about Bruce as well. However, Bruce is still a man. Revision would be to have his implants removed. Though I heard he had full bottom surgery so that may be the issue of his no longer having a manhood. But Bruce is and always shall be a man.

If commitment to helping those suffering gender identity disorder was as great as lapsing in compassion and letting their condition to lead to their self mutilation , we'd likely see less suicides in the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] community.
It's a shame that it is easier to give up and let the condition rule the patient. The do no harm standard in medicine appears to stop in matters of the male or female who is gender afflicted.

 

[hedrick]

Didn't even famous Bruce Jenner say he wanted to revert back to being a man?
I guess playing make believe even as a grownup gets to be tiring.

It appears that this is false.

FALSE: Caitlyn Jenner Regrets Transition, Will Become Male Again Soon

Caitlyn Jenner slams ‘idiotic’ de-transitioning claims

It does not help people with gender problems to refer to them with language like "make believe." Please, folks, think.

 

[HannahT]

This is an area where I don't think we've converged on treatment. The problem seems real enough. It's been pretty well documented. Sex reassignment has actually been around longer than recent efforts for acceptance of transgendered people. Lots of studies have been quoted, but it's very hard to find good studies for the effects of sex reassignment. E.g. one of the best compared results after sex reassignment with the general population. That obviously doesn't tell us the effects of the surgery itself.

It's actually possible that sex reassignment might both alleviate sexual dysphoria and increase the probability of suicide, possibly in different people. I.e. it might help a significant fraction of the time, but make things worse in other cases. From what I can read, it simply isn't clear.

I think I would LOOK to the sources in which encourage reassignment - or pressure as you put it - to see why they do that if they clearly don't know if it does more harm than good.

Quite honestly that seems like a HUGE ethics issue. In the rush to offer this procedure to people that is life altering...we don't know if it helps these individuals feel better in their own skin?

Sounds to me like they are throwing out solutions to a problem they are NOT sure they are fixing.

 

[hedrick]

I think I would LOOK to the sources in which encourage reassignment - or pressure as you put it - to see why they do that if they clearly don't know if it does more harm than good.

There are lots of questions on which there isn't very high quality data. But there are fairly consistent results that transition helps people. That's why it's a clinical standard. Are there loose ends left, sure. Maybe it will turn out that there's more to say on the subject, and that will change treatment. But there is good enough evidence to convince clinicians that it's worth doing.

 

[Tom 1]

There are lots of questions on which there isn't very high quality data. But there are fairly consistent results that transition helps people. That's why it's a clinical standard. Are there loose ends left, sure. Maybe it will turn out that there's more to say on the subject, and that will change treatment. But there is good enough evidence to convince clinicians that it's worth doing.

I think ‘helps’ here is a very superficial notion. These are not healthy inclinations that should be ‘helped’ by clinicians- when there isn’t a cure, the doctor shouldn’t act. I think the impulse to ‘do something’ is more social than medical. There’s a long history of psychiatric treatments ‘helping’ people that are very damaging in the longer term.