THAT CALVINISTS DON'T BELIEVE IN FREE WILL - is the most often repeated lie in the forum.

Marvin Knox

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I would say that there is only one way that you can know what will happen in the future, and this is if you have total control of what is going to happen :)
If we are talking about us - there is another way. That way is if God tells us emphatically what will happen.

I don't have complete control over living forever. But I do know for sure that that will happen.

In the case of God - I wouldn't go so far as to say that omniscience requires complete control of what will happen.

But since God tells us that all things which happen in this world work together according to His good and perfect will I do agree that He is in perfect control of what will happen.
 
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sdowney717

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And very glad of it that God is in control of all things. And that all things occur according to His foreordained plans. To say otherwise, your introducing random chance events for most things that happen, and that is to let evil be unrestrained, out of control.

Scripturally God rules over the affairs of men. AND gives that rulership to the basest of men, if He wishes.

KJ21
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones, with the intent that the living may know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.”
 
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Amazing Horse

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Very easy to answer this question .

If we don't have free will then Nineveh could not repent .
And since Nineveh repent then God could choose to repent aswell and not destroy them .
If we did not have free will God would not be able to repent , because he would just follow his plan , yet we can see multiple times that God himself repent from doing something like in Exodus 32:14.

It's glory of God that he is greater than our free will that he know what we choose before we will choose or even be alive . If God did not know what we choose then he would be limited and we know that this is not the case .
 
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sdowney717

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Very easy to answer this question .

If we don't have free will then Nineveh could not repent .
And since Nineveh repent then God could choose to repent aswell and not destroy them .
If we did not have free will God would not be able to repent , because he would just follow his plan , yet we can see multiple times that God himself repent from doing something like in Exodus 32:14.

It's glory of God that he is greater than our free will that he know what we choose before we will choose or even be alive . If God did not know what we choose then he would be limited and we know that this is not the case .

Except that it is God who grants and gives and ordains repentance.

Example
Acts 5:31
Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

Acts 13:24
after John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Acts 19:4
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

2 Timothy 2:25
in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,

And here, examples of repentance not granted by God.
Hebrews 6:6
if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hebrews 12:17
For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.
 
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sdowney717

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And this one verse is not out of place from the others.
God grants repentance, so Peter is referring to those who will be repenting in the future as God grants them that they will. As God is unwilling that any of you perish, but the audience for Peter's words is not the world but Christ's elect. Longsuffering toward His elect , the 'US'.

God is not slack concerning His promises towards US, not the world who do not and never will become believers in Christ.

Many people are in error, believe and read this letter as if Peter was writing to all men. If you read Peter, you will see Peter is not writing to all men, but only those of the church who will make up the saved..

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
 
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com7fy8

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In the case of God - I wouldn't go so far as to say that omniscience requires complete control of what will happen.

But since God tells us that all things which happen in this world work together according to His good and perfect will I do agree that He is in perfect control of what will happen.
Thank you for your effort to be clear, and courteous about it.

One thing, though > if God is using all things for His good, how can He not be in total control of it all?

How about Joseph? > Genesis 37-50 < those brothers sold him into slavery, then God used Joseph's horrible situation to save many people's lives. Joseph says it was God . . . not the brothers . . . who sent him to Egypt. What they were willing and intending did not decide anything. This, to me, would support how God is in all-control, even using evil for His good purpose.

But yes ones can say, but God knows what each person will do because of that person's nature. And so each person is the one who makes one's choices. I understand this :) but :) lolololol

In any case, yes God works everything for our good, for us who love God > Romans 8:28. And we have Ephesians 1:11.

So, our own character can have a lot to do to decide if and how we benefit from how things go.

It's what you make it,
how you take it . . .
just don't you fake it!!!!

Even so . . . can we in our present character desire and seek to be better in God's love? I understand we need how God in His grace changes us in our nature. Our nature, as is, is not going to want or really try to make us better. So, in order for us to benefit really well, from how God manages things, we first need how God changes our nature to be creative enough with Him, in order to benefit from and minister His love good of things we go through.
 
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Marvin Knox

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One thing, though > if God is using all things for His good, how can He not be in total control of it all?
You said the following. I was merely commenting on what you said.
I would say that there is only one way that you can know what will happen in the future, and this is if you have total control of what is going to happen
I didn't say that God is not in total control of everything.

I merely disagreed that God possessing omniscience necessarily requires that He be in total control of everything.
How about Joseph? > Genesis 37-50 < those brothers sold him into slavery, then God used Joseph's horrible situation to save many people's lives. Joseph says it was God . . . not the brothers . . . who sent him to Egypt. What they were willing and intending did not decide anything. This, to me, would support how God is in all-control, even using evil for His good purpose.
I fully agree and I never said that God was not in control of everything that happens- whether good or bad.

I believe that He is not only in control of it but that He predestined it to happen.
But yes ones can say, but God knows what each person will do because of that person's nature. And so each person is the one who makes one's choices.
I agree. Not only that but He predestined that they make that choice. That is not to say that He in any way did violence to their free will. In fact I denied that Calvinists teach such a thing and supported it in my OP with a quote from their most cherished confession.
So, our own character can have a lot to do to decide if and how we benefit from how things go.
I fully agree.
Our nature, as is, is not going to want or really try to make us better. So, in order for us to benefit really well, from how God manages things, we first need how God changes our nature to be creative enough with Him, in order to benefit from and minister His love good of things we go through.
ough.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I follow everything you say here. :)

But I fully agree that what is required for any fallen man to seek out and participate in what God is doing regarding things pertaining to salvation is a new creation. This is one of the most important Calvinist doctrines.

(Not that I am calling myself a Calvinist. I am Reformed in my theology as I have said. But I am not a 5-point Calvinist.)
 
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Marvin Knox

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Very easy to answer this question . If we don't have free will then Nineveh could not repent ............
And since Nineveh repent then God could choose to repent as well and not destroy them ................... If we did not have free will God would not be able to repent ...............
It's glory of God that he is greater than our free will that he know what we choose before we will choose or even be alive . If God did not know what we choose then he would be limited and we know that this is not the case .
I'm not sure to whom this is addressed.

But I fully agree.

Every Calvinist believes that men have free will That is the clear teaching of Calvinist confession which I quoted in the OP. We make our own choices for which they will be held responsible.

P.S.
I am here using "free will" in the commonly meant way of using the term. Obviously no one can be completely free from His own nature, God's influence, and even sometimes Satan's influence.

Of course Calvinists generally tend to not use the term free will because it is so often abused by the "other side".
 
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Marvin Knox

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NOTICE THAT I CHANGED THE TITLE OF THE THREAD A BIT.

ORIGINALLY I TRIED HARD NOT TO USE THE WORD "LIE" AND MY PURPOSEFULLY SOFT APPROACH MAY HAVE LED TO MISUNDERSTANDING.

THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME CONFUSION AS TO WHAT I WAS SAYING IF SOME DO NOT READ THE OP ITSELF.
 
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Kywy

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I have been struggling with issue on whether God ordains sin. How can this be? If he works everything for good, but also controls every action, does he then ordain sin? I am really having a hard time loving God because it doesnt make sense why God would create just so he could control every single thing and have a bunch of people end up in hell for something that was predestined.
 
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I have been struggling with issue on whether God ordains sin. How can this be? If he works everything for good, but also controls every action, does he then ordain sin? I am really having a hard time loving God because it doesnt make sense why God would create just so he could control every single thing and have a bunch of people end up in hell for something that was predestined.

The simple truth is that God did not elect or choose men to be damned to hell. Men chose themselves to be damned. It was their own free will choice to reject God.
 
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