Thank you Trump -- Apple brings 350 billion dollars back to the US

[Aldebaran]

Did my post use too many big words?

No. Just a lot of fluff. I just wanted to know how you would feel if he didn't even bother opening up a bike shop. You seem to think he now owes everyone else everything for being in business (as if the taxes he paid while in business don't count). What do you think a business pays taxes for, if not for all the things you mentioned?

 

[bhsmte]

So why don't they just use slave labor? My point being: there are obvious limits to all things. You and I have NEVER (thank God) lived in a pure laissez faire free market. It would be a living hellscape. The closest we could probably see in US history was the Gilded Age.



So if I run a business and am able to cheat taxes illegally and thereby increase my profits and my shareholder value, am I also doing OK? Would you blame me?

In the case of Apple and the other "American" companies they aren't breaking any laws. But they are acting immorally.

There is little difference between the two. Just one is arbitrarily counted as "illegal", the other just "business as usual".

Tim Cook lives a good life in the USA. HIs company sells HUGE amounts of their products in the USA. Apple wouldn't even EXIST without the USA.

At some point you have to say just because you can AVOID paying for the goodness of the USA you probably SHOULDN'T.

It's bad investment. And it's short sighted. And it's immoral.

[Staff edit].

Profits also help a company research new products and improve their products, along with rewarding their employees that produce them. Nothing wrong with a company trying to maximize profits, while making the best products they can, to be competitive.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I note the operant word there "was".



Well, considering that you probably had the usual misunderstanding about it, let me help you!

If you "built" a bicycle shop you used ROADS and ELECTRICAL GRIDS which allowed you to establish a business. You had clean drinking water and safe food and drugs so you weren't constantly battling illness so you could concentrate on your business. You had healthy customers because of these things.

No, but I'm sure you built your bicycle business out in the middle of the vacuum of space without ANY mooring on planet earth let alone whatever country you were in at the time.

That's the point, M-Bob. YOU may have built it but you wouldn't have even been able to imagine building such a business without a society around you. That's what that phrase means.

Let's put it this way: I have a goodly number of PATENTS to my name, but there's no way I could have gotten those patents without a lot of support structure around me. SURE I came up with the ideas that got the patent and that's the person whose name is on the patent, but I needed the lab space my company provided for me, I needed the work of technicians to test the product, I needed the roads and electrical grid that I relied on to get into work and be able to do my work.

Does that make sense to you? Can you understand that point even in the abstract?

These are afterthoughts I'm sure Obama was not thinking that far ahead when he made his ridiculous comment.
M-Bob

 

[Enfeoffment75]

These are afterthoughts I'm sure Obama was not thinking that far ahead when he made his ridiculous comment.
M-Bob

It saddens me when people don't know American history. Obama was basically just channeling a similar thing said by Teddy Roosevelt.

If you don't think Obama was thinking that far ahead, perhaps you are the one who wasn't listening with an historically informed ear?

Hmmm.....

 

[Enfeoffment75]

[Staff edit].

Profits also help a company research new products and improve their products, along with rewarding their employees that produce them.

You act like I wouldn't understand that despite my having spent >20 years as a researcher for companies with multiple patents to my name. OF COURSE I understand that! LOL!

My point is that there are obvious LIMITS. You seem to be espousing a position in which profit is the be all and end all. That is never the case.

Nothing wrong with a company trying to maximize profits, while making the best products they can, to be competitive.

But that "maximization function" has limits. And I'm merely saying that evading taxes to the country that has made your company possible and continues to do so is probably an overstepping of that limit.

 

[Aldebaran]

But that "maximization function" has limits. And I'm merely saying that evading taxes to the country that has made your company possible and continues to do so is probably an overstepping of that limit.

Are you referring to a country overseas where Apple is bringing their money back from? They already pay taxes there. The problem is that are taxed on that money again, and at a high rate when they bring it back to the United States. I don't know about you, but I like the idea of them reinvesting that money here than overseas. It's better for everyone in the United States. More jobs here, more taxes paid here.

 

[Enfeoffment75]

No. Just a lot of fluff. I just wanted to know how you would feel if he didn't even bother opening up a bike shop

Well, it's clear you aren't reading for content. SO let me clarify it for you: I would feel sad.

But the point of all commerce is NO SIDE is the only one of importance. If he opened a bicycle shop he would need customers and workers. Just as much as the customers would need him to supply bikes and the workers would need him to provide the opportunity to work.

But in the end no business exists without customers. Customers can exist without a business...it's called an "unmet need".

. You seem to think he now owes everyone else everything for being in business (as if the taxes he paid while in business don't count). What do you think a business pays taxes for, if not for all the things you mentioned?

That is precisely the point of this conversation!!!! Sheesh! Let me recap:

Apple and many, many other US-based companies have decided that they will find any and all ways to evade paying corporate taxes in the US as much as they possibly can. This, in the end, only serves to HARM the primary customer base they have as well as the primary country that has given them the ability to even BE a corporation or even EXIST.

There is no free lunch. That's all I'm saying. Apple shouldn't get "kudos" for finally doing the right thing, especially since "doing the right thing" apparently had to be bought from them.

It's like paying a toddler not to destroy the living room.

 

[Enfeoffment75]

And need I remind you all that the US Stock market began hitting ALL TIME HIGHS (meaning these corporations were HYPER CAPITALIZED by investors and cash-flush for years before this recent "tax break")

How much is enough in the race for ultra-profit?

How smart is it to harm your primary customer base?

 

[Aldebaran]

Well, it's clear you aren't reading for content. SO let me clarify it for you: I would feel sad.

But the point of all commerce is NO SIDE is the only one of importance. If he opened a bicycle shop he would need customers and workers. Just as much as the customers would need him to supply bikes and the workers would need him to provide the opportunity to work.

But in the end no business exists without customers. Customers can exist without a business...it's called an "unmet need".

Customers are provided with the products they go there to buy, workers are paid for the work they do there, and taxes are paid to support the infrastructure he exists in. What more do you want?

That is precisely the point of this conversation!!!! Sheesh! Let me recap:

Apple and many, many other US-based companies have decided that they will find any and all ways to evade paying corporate taxes in the US as much as they possibly can. This, in the end, only serves to HARM the primary customer base they have as well as the primary country that has given them the ability to even BE a corporation or even EXIST.

There is no free lunch. That's all I'm saying. Apple shouldn't get "kudos" for finally doing the right thing, especially since "doing the right thing" apparently had to be bought from them.

It's like paying a toddler not to destroy the living room.

How do you know they could afford to do what you refer to as "the right thing" before getting the tax break?

 

[bhsmte]

You act like I wouldn't understand that despite my having spent >20 years as a researcher for companies with multiple patents to my name. OF COURSE I understand that! LOL!

My point is that there are obvious LIMITS. You seem to be espousing a position in which profit is the be all and end all. That is never the case.



But that "maximization function" has limits. And I'm merely saying that evading taxes to the country that has made your company possible and continues to do so is probably an overstepping of that limit.

That is your opinion. If another country (or state) has tax advantages, that allows a company to retain profits, to improve the company and better position in with their competitors, there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of it.

 

[Veritas]

Told ya so! I tried to hard to educate the liberals here that lowering the corporate tax rate would increase revenues. All these companies out there can repatriate all that cash sitting off shore and pay a lower rate on it. By doing so, they help grow the economy and the treasury!

 

[Veritas]

And need I remind you all that the US Stock market began hitting ALL TIME HIGHS (meaning these corporations were HYPER CAPITALIZED by investors and cash-flush for years before this recent "tax break")

How much is enough in the race for ultra-profit?

How smart is it to harm your primary customer base?

Can't you just be happy for good news?