Tha nature of Jesus

[KisKatte]

Halo there

I belong to the eastern orthodox church but whole of my life I was too silly to understand Jesus is God. Until God HIMSELF talked to me. As far as I understood Jesus has no human soul, so He is no human. But divinity/God united with a human body. So far okay for me. But: Isnt it then that non-chalcedonian orthodox churches are more true? I suffer that this subject is not explained in detail ini our orthodox churches, if so, inform me please. Jesus is GOD so He is NOT human by soul! So I wonder if non-chalcedonian churches have more truth. Could you help me unity of God and a human Body while still God is present both in Jesus and the holy spirit, fully present. That is what the bible is saying, do not ask me where I read this in the bible. So where is the problem???? Do chalcedonian orthodox churches too much interprete human nature into GOD JESUS? Is THIS the problem?

 

[The Liturgist]

Halo there

I belong to the eastern orthodox church but whole of my life I was too silly to understand Jesus is God. Until God HIMSELF talked to me. As far as I understood Jesus has no human soul, so He is no human. But divinity/God united with a human body. So far okay for me. But: Isnt it then that non-chalcedonian orthodox churches are more true? I suffer that this subject is not explained in detail ini our orthodox churches, if so, inform me please. Jesus is GOD so He is NOT human by soul! So I wonder if non-chalcedonian churches have more truth. Could you help me unity of God and a human Body while still God is present both in Jesus and the holy spirit, fully present. That is what the bible is saying, do not ask me where I read this in the bible. So where is the problem???? Do chalcedonian orthodox churches too much interprete human nature into GOD JESUS? Is THIS the problem?

@Pavel Mosko and @dzheremi can confirm this, but essentially, Oriental Orthodox Christology is the Christology of St. Cyril the Great, meaning that it is like Chalcedonian Christology in that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, without change, confusion or separation, but is simpler and more resilient to Nestorian misinterpretation because it lacks the concept of hypostases.

Now, regarding your Eastern Orthodox Christology, it sounds to me like you have potentially been poorly catechized, as @GreekOrthodox and @prodromos can confirm, because the Christological beliefs of the Eastern Orthodox church are that:

• Jesus Christ is God, the second person of the Trinity, and is of one divine essence together with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
• He became incarnate of the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit, and became man; she carried Him and gave birth to Him, and he is fully man and fully God without change, confusion or separation.
• He has a human soul; the idea that He does not is the heresy of Apollinarianism, which was rejected in the fourth century and is regarded as contrary to the faith by both Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Christians.
• Because He is fully and perfectly human and divine at the same time, he unites us to His divinity and this is an essential aspect of the Orthodox doctrine of Salvation.

My understanding is that these key points are held by Eastern and Oriental Orthodox alike.

In recent years, the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches have had great success with ecumenical dialogue, particularly the Antiochian and Syriac Orthodox and the Coptic and Alexandrian Orthodox, and in the United States, many Oriental Orthodox seminarians attend St. Vladimir’s Seminary and other Eastern Orthodox seminaries; St. Vladimir’s is regarded by many as the foremost English language Orthodox seminary.

I have an extreme love for the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches and always feel at home in them; indeed, much of my work consists of teaching Protestants about Orthodox theological concepts, and a long term goal of mine would be to unite a Protestant Christian group with the Orthodox community, which has happened before (the Evangelical Orthodox Church, and a cult called HOOM, both miraculously became Orthodox).

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Halo there

I belong to the eastern orthodox church but whole of my life I was too silly to understand Jesus is God. Until God HIMSELF talked to me. As far as I understood Jesus has no human soul, so He is no human. But divinity/God united with a human body. So far okay for me. But: Isnt it then that non-chalcedonian orthodox churches are more true? I suffer that this subject is not explained in detail ini our orthodox churches, if so, inform me please. Jesus is GOD so He is NOT human by soul! So I wonder if non-chalcedonian churches have more truth. Could you help me unity of God and a human Body while still God is present both in Jesus and the holy spirit, fully present. That is what the bible is saying, do not ask me where I read this in the bible. So where is the problem???? Do chalcedonian orthodox churches too much interprete human nature into GOD JESUS? Is THIS the problem?

Uh Jesus does have a human soul according to every Church that holds to the Nicene Creed. The only church where that was kind of questioned were the Maronite Catholics during the late classical to early medieval time frame. There was some questions about their Christology when they were separated from the rest of Christianity hiding out in the mountains of Lebanon.


Anyway the OP to some degree comes from confusion over the previous label of "monophyte", but most of the confusion comes from them not properly understanding out Christology which is miaphysite. Miaphysite is a unity that comes from two natures coming together. The only real way of describing this is I've seen some decorative pieces of particle board that are made from two different color trees, like red wood, black walnut, or a white wood like walnut, but the block of wood is glued together with some super crazy blue. But you have a two tone block of wood that for all intents and purposes is as strong as it being made of one material. (Ok I couldn't find a good example of those blocks I would see at construction sites, but here is a decorative butcher board that sort of shows the idea).

Anyway much of the monophyte stuff comes from accusations, almost a strawmaning or misunderstanding, or maybe even slander of our position. In many ways the Miaphysite can almost seem identical to the Diaphysis position like almost a semantic difference. I assume there are some fine nuance differences that theology experts etc. can articulate.


But to really get what it means to believe it when people really believe God has only one nature as far as his soul, spirit etc. I would recommend observing some Protestants in some of theology threads. Every once in a while, you will run across someone who basically sees Jesus as being basically "God in a man suit", or "God with a human bod", that really is what that position is, which is called Apollinarianism. Besides that you get to monothelitism the notion that Christ had only one will, which is the heresy that some people say the Maronites might have taught in their early years which is linked below.



Monothelitism - Wikipedia).

 

[dzheremi]

Some backing for our belief that Jesus Christ does indeed have a human soul comes from the Theotokia for Tuesdays, specifically the couplet which reads

+ He also descended on you, O speaking mountain, that spoke with humility and love of mankind.

And likewise, He took flesh from you without alteration, a speaking body.

+ Co-essential with us, and perfect, and also has a rational soul.

He remained God, as He is, and became a perfect man.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Halo there

I belong to the eastern orthodox church but whole of my life I was too silly to understand Jesus is God. Until God HIMSELF talked to me. As far as I understood Jesus has no human soul, so He is no human. But divinity/God united with a human body. So far okay for me. But: Isnt it then that non-chalcedonian orthodox churches are more true? I suffer that this subject is not explained in detail ini our orthodox churches, if so, inform me please. Jesus is GOD so He is NOT human by soul! So I wonder if non-chalcedonian churches have more truth. Could you help me unity of God and a human Body while still God is present both in Jesus and the holy spirit, fully present. That is what the bible is saying, do not ask me where I read this in the bible. So where is the problem???? Do chalcedonian orthodox churches too much interprete human nature into GOD JESUS? Is THIS the problem?

The soul is different from the spirit and not part of it. The soul is the substance of life and it exists in the blood (Lev 17:11). Humans and animals have souls. As for the spirit, it is the breath of God that He breathed into Adam, and it exists only in humans. Animals have souls only but no spirits.
The soul which makes a human or animal body alive. This usage refers to life in the physical body "and so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni; but his father called him Benjamin" (Genesis 35:18). "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?" (Mark 8:36). Elijah the Prophet brought a child back to life when "and he stretched himself out on the child three times, and cried out to the Lord and said, "O Lord my God, I pray, let this child's soul come back to him" (1 Kings 17:21).
spirit is translated from the Hebrew word "ruah", meaning breath, wind and the Greek "pneuma", meaning wind, breath and the vital principle. In Arabic it is translated "roh". The term is used in the Scriptures generally to denote purely spiritual beings; also the spiritual, immortal part in man. While the term soul specifies that in the immaterial part of man that concerns life, action, and emotion, the term spirit is that part related to worship and divine communion. Animals do not have a spirit but do have a soul. There are verses that emphasize a distinction between soul and spirit "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:23); "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Hebrews 4:12).
Jesus has a Soul and the Holy spirit you seem to be not knowledgable on our position of faith which is ok not many people are what we believe are essentially identical to Dyophysis we just hold to the original christological view of St. Cyril of Alexandria he is the Doctor of your church and the speaker of faith Jesus needed a Soul to have life and he needed the spirit to be God these two natures were united in a person becoming one physis(nature) without mingling,seperation thats the exact same belief dyophysis believe but they hold to the Chalcedonian christological explanation you should learn a lil about both our churches and views it would be great
Blessings, Prince
Source from: Coptic Orthodox Diocese of the Southern United States - Q&A

 

[dóxatotheó]

Some backing for our belief that Jesus Christ does indeed have a human soul comes from the Theotokia for Tuesdays, specifically the couplet which reads

+ He also descended on you, O speaking mountain, that spoke with humility and love of mankind.

And likewise, He took flesh from you without alteration, a speaking body.

+ Co-essential with us, and perfect, and also has a rational soul.

He remained God, as He is, and became a perfect man.

amen brother in Christ

 

[KisKatte]

Thank you all for your replies. They are interesting. Okay sure God controlled a human body, and this human body is fully human. I understand. So it has than a "soul" from this perspective. But I like more following Logic that in reality God and Human can not mix. We tend to believe that in Jesus God is fully present and He is. So there should not be separation or mixture in wrong ways. Now I just think that this matter was never really explored logically. I just tend to think that this matter remains unclear because many people follow the church believing that Jesus Christ is a human (like the muslims do) out of SYMPATHY for His suffering. And only later in their life become conscient of His Godly Nature. I think the church wanted to keep it unclear on both sides. The copts and the orthodox. So the fight between the copts and the orthodox is superficial for me and no longer of interest. Thank you all.