Texas pastors demand a “religious liberty” exemption to coronavirus stay-at-home orders

Desk trauma

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Amateurs are quick to forget that the courts interpret the Constitution. An amateur's uninformed interpretation is wrong an amazing high percentage of the time. That reminds me, have you ever heard of Sovereign Citizens? They are a group that misinterprets the law and try to claim it does not apply to them. They then break the law and video it and quite often upload it to YouTube. Hilarity ensues.
Yes, I am familiar with the articles of confirmation appreciation society. Mike the cop has some amusing videos on the subject.
 
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camille70

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We basically have Satan trying to tempt folk to jump off a cliff to prove God will save them, but instead of replying like Jesus and saying "It is written 'You shall not temp the Lord, your God", we have folk lining up to take a leap. Unbelievable. I don't wish harm upon people, and I'm praying folk wake up and find common sense. I also don't know Gods will in all this, but at this point it seems to me that God just might be allowing the herd to be culled so the ones who do use wisdom increase in number.


Churches were also closed down in 1918. After church services were restored:

On that first Sunday, the Reverend J. Francis Grimke preached a powerful sermon that was later published and distributed, “Some Reflections: Growing Out of the Recent Epidemic of Influenza that Afflicted Our City.”[30] In the sermon, Grimke acknowledges that there was “considerable grumbling” on the part of some regarding the closing of churches. However, he offered a defense of the ban on gatherings:

The fact that the churches were places of religious gathering, and the others not, would not affect in the least the health question involved. If avoiding crowds lessens the danger of being infected, it was wise to take the precaution and not needlessly run in danger, and expect God to protect us.[31]


From:

How DC Churches Responded When the Government Banned Public Gatherings During the Spanish Flu of 1918
 
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Belk

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Investigation of individuals does not equal punishment as a result of presumption of guilt.

"Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the Fifth, Sixth, and Fourteenth Amendments. The case of Coffin v. United States (1895) established the presumption of innocence of persons accused of crimes. See also In re Winship." (source)

Your entire premise is flawed, front to back. Presumption of innocence is not a government mandate and calling illness a form of guilt is a false equivalence.
 
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cow451

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That may be how it's practiced, but I'm suggesting it's unconstitutional.
Then you will have to get some folks "with standing" to file a lawsuit that will work its way up to the Supreme Court. Otherwise it's just something you don't agree with.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Do you eat pork? Because if you do, you have no right to be quoting Leviticus to people.

Good Lord No! Pork is disgusting. Now Bacon on the other hand…
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Facebook offers a lot for sale as well today. It is amazing how many people do not know that what they have is not solid wood. I have seen pieces that I was tempted to buy even though my house is too full of furniture. Plain sawn oak is fine, for flooring it is not the prettiest wood on its own. My furniture tends to be most maple with a bit of pine, cherry, oak, and ash. I am sure there is some birch in there too. I have one table top that is red oak with a faux quartersawn top. The top is constructed of boards with a 1 inch height and width that were oriented so that it looks as if it were quartersawn.

If you buy something if you know the manufacturer you can sometimes look up and see what woods they worked in. Pieces called "maple" are often birch. Especially chairs since it steam bends far better than maple does. The same applies to many "oak" chairs. They are quite often ash, especially when made in New England. Ash steam beds much more easily and though open grained it is not nearly as clunky as red oak. Many people are unfamiliar with white ash, just remember, it is the traditional wood for baseball bats. Hard rock maple is a recent innovation in bat material. One can turn far more delicate spindles out of white ash than out of red oak. Some woods scream "veneer" which would be on mdf if it is from the 1950's or later. Pecan for example. It is more of a southern wood and the plants in the south tended to do more veneer work. Veneers allow more creativity, but I am not a fan of medium density fiberboard. No one tends to veneer on solid wood these days. You can find antiques that were done that way. But nothing close to be new is made that way any longer. Lastly for most people "cherry" is a color and not a wood. Cherry is usually stained because natural cherry will darken a bit on its own. And if one has something on it that blocks light that part will not darken. One has to be aware of that.

I used to watch The Woodwright's Shop and spent time at Colonial Williamsburg and other Living History sites studding old tools and woodworking. The level of craftsmanship that the old time makers could produce with the most primitive tools was/is incredible. I recall spending hours using “scouring rushes” (horsetails) to smooth a surface that would take seconds for a random orbit sander with 400 grit. It is sad that when the modern and faster tools made their appearance, it wasn’t long before the stapled particleboard garbage that is passed off as furniture did as well. Particle board if you are lucky, some of it is just thick non corrugated cardboard.
 
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Pommer

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Investigation of individuals does not equal punishment as a result of presumption of guilt.

"Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the Fifth, Sixth, and Fourteenth Amendments. The case of Coffin v. United States (1895) established the presumption of innocence of persons accused of crimes. See also In re Winship." (source)

I do not understand your slavish devotion to the Constitution.
Yes, is is indeed the structure upon which hangs our entire government...but if it is too rigid to withstand a pandemic or three, then maybe it’s not he be-all and end-all that you seem to think it is?
 
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Subduction Zone

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The foundation of the united States republic is based on innocence until guilt is proven, rather than guilt presumed (infected) before proving innocence (health).
Again, the standard is "proven beyond a reasonable doubt". And what is reasonable is determined by society as a whole. Saying that you yourself are not convinced is immaterial when it comes to proving guilt.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I do not understand your slavish devotion to the Constitution.
Yes, is is indeed the structure upon which hangs our entire government...but if it is too rigid to withstand a pandemic or three, then maybe it’s not he be-all and end-all that you seem to think it is?

The Constitution works just fine since the laws that are applied are interpreted by legal experts. Not by amateurs. One person's inability to understand it does not change how it is applied.
 
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variant

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"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Then you have to decide whether it is essential to congregate during a pandemic, or whether it's best to temporarily make due to help save lives.
 
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