Link below to a testimony from a man who struggled with Blasphemous thoughts towards God for 6 months who afterwards went on to build a successful ministry. The testimony regarding the blasphemy thoughts begins from 4:44 onwards.
Not impressed. People can say anything and people have said as much.
Too many people get led away by the 'spiritual experiences' and claims of others. We have a more sure Word...Who are you helping exactly with such a reply ?
Too many people get led away by the 'spiritual experiences' and claims of others. We have a more sure Word...
Jeremiah 23:28 (KJV) The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.
So I am helping gullible people by reminding them of a better place to
That may be your assumption but I never ever said it is a lie. I said, "People can say anything and people have said as much."So you believe this mans testimony is a lie ? if so explain how you know the testimony is untrue.
That may be your assumption but I never ever said it is a lie. I said, "People can say anything and people have said as much."
I had also stated,"Too many people get led away by the 'spiritual experiences' and claims of others. We have a more sure Word..." and that "God's Word is greater than our experiences."
I believe I am entitled to my views even though you may disagree.
Not impressed. People can say anything and people have said as much.
Are you saying our experiences carry more weight than God's Word? I ask because that is my main point which you seemed to miss.I wouldn't usually bother to reply to a pointless negative post but I struggle to understand the purpose of what you do as for one you seem confused about what you are doing.
If he is just " saying anything " then he would in reality be lying as he would not be speaking the truth of what actually happened to him but would instead just be " saying anything ". Maybe you don't understand that this is what you just insinuated with your pointless negative post but then again maybe it did have a point which is to cast doubt. Hence why I said who exactly are you helping because his testimony gives hope to those in this awful struggle, what does your post offer ?
past tense: insinuated
- 1.
suggest or hint (something bad) in an indirect and unpleasant way.
I wonder what you would have said to the apostle Paul about the many spiritual experiences he testified to ? You have an experience with the word of God when you read it, everything is an experience unless your unconscious.
Acts 26:13-18 (KJV)
13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Thanks for your comment but I do not do well with long posts due to my ADD. But here is what comes to my mind reading your post...Ok so I'm gonna give my two cents here as I see two sides of the coin here.
@crossnote Sir, I understand your perspective on the issue. If I were in your shoes and seeing things from your perspective (which I have been for the majority of my Christian walk) id say the same thing too..that is until it happened to me as well.
Now we might have a long biblical debate on if I'm saved or not but that not the issue here. The validity of the testimony is the issue and the reliability of such.
During my moments of despair and thinking I lost God, crying none stop, days and nights without any sleep, it was these testimonies that held me together and people who posted them for people like me to read and watch and to BELIEVE and HAVE FAITH that God is indeed merciful and compassionate on those He chose to save. Along with some very sympathetic and caring conversations with those who have gone through and found God again.
Charles Spurgeon experienced blasphemous thoughts and was a great preacher in the 1800. John Bunyan experienced it and was another preacher in the 1600. Ever heard of these guys? If it were not for these testimonies and seeing how God brought them through, people like me would be hopeless and not desiring to live. What do we have to live for? If we don't have God, we don't have anything.
I've also read another sad thread of a young man who was totally convinced that God could not and would not forgive him and took his own life by jumping in front of a train right here on this forum. I mentioned this not to shut you up for u do have a right to your opinion from a biblical perspective but please do bear in mind that there are hurting people who do see these things and act rashly as well.
If we were to judge based on the Word of God, King David committed adultery and murdered an innocent man because he slept with his wife. I guess u can't take advice from him either because surely there was better men than him but God calls this character "a man after His own heart". So many great psalms was written from David during those times/moments of devastation. And let's not forget Paul who murdered Christians until Christ spoke to him.
Yes. God's word is reliable and TRUE. No doubt about it. I do not know if this man's preaching is heretical. Im just looking at his testimony on how he dealt with intrusive blasphemous thoughts. It's not about the mistakes we've made but it's how God's power is able to work in the midst of these struggles and hopeless situations. HE MAKES A WAY WHERE THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY.
Im not trying to belittle u because I do understand the mindset behind it and i believe it's also coming from a good place. I do hope that u can also see how it also comes across as judgemental because u do not understand my struggle (or perhaps u do and found a better way to deal with it and if so, please share) I am sure that there are many other great leaders to glean from, maybe that testimony was not meant for u and u should be less judgemental on the same. At least, it comes across as judgemental.
If u experienced those blasphemous thoughts, you would want someone to relate to u too because when u feel like your the only person on the planet that God doesn't love anymore or God gave up on or God forgot or the devil came just for me and I don't know how the heck that happened or why or maybe it was an accident...man, you're gonna be scared and you're gonna weep and you're gonna search for anyway to see "how u can get God back" or " How u can make the devil stop". I hope u understand what I'm trying to say.
@Refirened, thank u for your post sir. I believe it will help those who have experienced this and are at their wits end. I would say that not all situations are the same but it does help to see how anointed people that got put in ministry dealt with these thoughts from the get go.
Thanks for your comment but I do not do well with long posts due to my ADD. But here is what comes to my mind reading your post...
John 4:39-42 KJV
[39] And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did. [40] So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days. [41] And many more believed because of his own word; [42] And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
I've had spiritual experiences myself but that isn't my point. My point (as in the passage above) is how much purer is our encounter with Jesus through His Word than the experiences and testimonies of others.
There are many deceivers in the world who are slick talkers...2Tim 3:1-7
Ok so I'm gonna give my two cents here as I see two sides of the coin here.
@crossnote Sir, I understand your perspective on the issue. If I were in your shoes and seeing things from your perspective (which I have been for the majority of my Christian walk) id say the same thing too..that is until it happened to me as well.
Now we might have a long biblical debate on if I'm saved or not but that not the issue here. The validity of the testimony is the issue and the reliability of such.
During my moments of despair and thinking I lost God, crying none stop, days and nights without any sleep, it was these testimonies that held me together and people who posted them for people like me to read and watch and to BELIEVE and HAVE FAITH that God is indeed merciful and compassionate on those He chose to save. Along with some very sympathetic and caring conversations with those who have gone through and found God again.
Charles Spurgeon experienced blasphemous thoughts and was a great preacher in the 1800. John Bunyan experienced it and was another preacher in the 1600. Ever heard of these guys? If it were not for these testimonies and seeing how God brought them through, people like me would be hopeless and not desiring to live. What do we have to live for? If we don't have God, we don't have anything.
I've also read another sad thread of a young man who was totally convinced that God could not and would not forgive him and took his own life by jumping in front of a train right here on this forum. I mentioned this not to shut you up for u do have a right to your opinion from a biblical perspective but please do bear in mind that there are hurting people who do see these things and act rashly as well.
If we were to judge based on the Word of God, King David committed adultery and murdered an innocent man because he slept with his wife. I guess u can't take advice from him either because surely there was better men than him but God calls this character "a man after His own heart". So many great psalms was written from David during those times/moments of devastation. And let's not forget Paul who murdered Christians until Christ spoke to him.
Yes. God's word is reliable and TRUE. No doubt about it. I do not know if this man's preaching is heretical. Im just looking at his testimony on how he dealt with intrusive blasphemous thoughts. It's not about the mistakes we've made but it's how God's power is able to work in the midst of these struggles and hopeless situations. HE MAKES A WAY WHERE THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY.
Im not trying to belittle u because I do understand the mindset behind it and i believe it's also coming from a good place. I do hope that u can also see how it also comes across as judgemental because u do not understand my struggle (or perhaps u do and found a better way to deal with it and if so, please share) I am sure that there are many other great leaders to glean from, maybe that testimony was not meant for u and u should be less judgemental on the same. At least, it comes across as judgemental.
If u experienced those blasphemous thoughts, you would want someone to relate to u too because when u feel like your the only person on the planet that God doesn't love anymore or God gave up on or God forgot or the devil came just for me and I don't know how the heck that happened or why or maybe it was an accident...man, you're gonna be scared and you're gonna weep and you're gonna search for anyway to see "how u can get God back" or " How u can make the devil stop". I hope u understand what I'm trying to say.
@Refirened, thank u for your post sir. I believe it will help those who have experienced this and are at their wits end. I would say that not all situations are the same but it does help to see how anointed people that got put in ministry dealt with these thoughts from the get go.
I agree with that except you didn't explain how my argument is illogical, you only through out a personal attack.Your argument is illogical as the Scriptures were written and compiled by God through the hands of human beings who had experiences with him as we see with Prophecy in Scripture. The Church which is made up of people is part of the body of Christ and God works and speaks through his body by the Holy Spirit in this day and age which Scriptures also show. As Christians, We test what we see and hear against the written word and reject anything that would violate and go against what we see in Scripture.
I haven't scoffed or derided any one's testimony nor have I borne false witness of anyone (like you are doing here). The N.T. was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, many testimonies are inspired by another spirit and need to be tested against Scripture (many have proven to be fake for $$$, giving a bad name for Christ). The Pharisees did the same as I am doing? (more personal attacks-like you seem to be doing).Actually, they clung to their Traditions rather than God's Word.The New Testament in the days of the early Church was being written and compiled and the Pharisees did similar to what you seem to be doing. They would use the written word in a twisted way to attack whatever God is doing in the present by scoffing and deriding the works of Christ and his followers. While you scoff and deride his testimony have you pointed out one thing this man said in the video to be wrong or in violation of the written word of God ?
Yes, with emphasis on 'legitimate'. That is why we are to test the spirits with God's Word.scoff
SCOFF, v.t. To treat with derision or scorn.
SCOFF, n. Derision, ridicule, mockery or reproach, expressed in language of contempt; expression of scorn or contempt.
Also do you realise that the written word references people's legitimate experiences within their walks of faith with God ?
I've had 46 years experience as a born again Christian, is that enough? Will you believe every word I say? Apparently not. Physician, heal thyself.Romans 5:3-6 (KJV)
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
It's through these experiences that Christians can strengthen and comfort one another because those with experience can relate and give hope to others who are in the midst of their own trials and tribulations.
I agree with that except you didn't explain how my argument is illogical, you only through out a personal attack.
The core of my 'argument' is how much purer is our encounter with Jesus through His Word than the experiences and testimonies of others., and I have used such verses as Jer 23:28 and Jn 4:39-42.
I haven't scoffed or derided any one's testimony nor have I borne false witness of anyone (like you are doing here). The N.T. was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, many testimonies are inspired by another spirit and need to be tested against Scripture (many have proven to be fake for $$$, giving a bad name for Christ). The Pharisees did the same as I am doing? (more personal attacks-like you seem to be doing).Actually, they clung to their Traditions rather than God's Word.
Yes, with emphasis on 'legitimate'. That is why we are to test the spirits with God's Word.
SCOFF? Is this another ad hominem?
I've had 46 years experience as a born again Christian, is that enough? Will you believe every word I say? Apparently not. Physician, heal thyself.
The N.T. was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, many testimonies are inspired by another spirit and need to be tested against Scripture (many have proven to be fake for $$$, giving a bad name for Christ).
Thinking about 'his testimony' is not the same as 'scoffing' or 'deriding' it.You say you have not scoffed or derided his testimony and reveal what you're actually thinking about his tetimony in the very next sentence.
That is not what I said (again bearing false witness). What I said was "People can say anything and people have said as much." i used the general term 'people' not specifically 'he'. Simply a false conclusion on your part. You seem to have some sort of personal or financial interest in this person to go overboard in defending him at all costs.Then again you seem to have no problem with attacking other Christian's characters considering this is how you chose to respond to the post to begin with by attacking the man in the testimony by saying Quote " He Could Be Saying Anything " Therefore INSINUATING he is lying and just saying.
It's your thread so whatever. Just remember you first challenged my comment (post #2), I never meant it as an attack...just my opinion with a warning.I really don't have much desire to continue discourse with you and will request the thread to be deleted to avoid those with these struggles coming into contact with you and your comments.
Thinking about 'his testimony' is not the same as 'scoffing' or 'deriding' it.
That is not what I said (again bearing false witness). What I said was "People can say anything and people have said as much." i used the general term 'people' not specifically 'he'. Simply a false conclusion on your part. You seem to have some sort of personal or financial interest in this person to go overboard in defending him at all costs.
It's your thread so whatever. Just remember you first challenged my comment (post #2), I never meant it as an attack...just my opinion with a warning.
just my opinion with a warning.
Not impressed. People can say anything and people have said as much.
I am not bearing false witness as that it was you insinuated by saying people can say anything. I'm defending the truth which you have difficulties with considering your denying what your actually doing which is clear to see. You doing exactly what the Pharisees did honestly as a believer I dislike it and so did Jesus but at the same I don't want to harbour bad feelings against you so id rather just let it go.
Really you should state what this man said within the testimony which you feel violates Scriptural truth. Considering that you felt the need to WARN others and cast doubt on his testimony ?
Neither do I and I wish you would have kept to your original desire. Good bye.I really don't have much desire to continue discourse with you...