Terrorist Attack on Britain

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Oafman

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An armed population would have made no difference to this incident. The victim was apparently dead in seconds, and the suspects did not attack anyone until armed police arrived.

It could even be telling that they had only one gun between them, which, according to an eyewitness, exploded in the hand of the suspect as he tried to fire at police.
 
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There's always that possibility. Someone could have stopped them before they even put a single cut on the guy if even one person who just happened to be around there had a handgun. I'm not saying he WOULD still be alive right now, but there's always that possibility.
 
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This is just disturbing how so many people saw this there, but couldn't even do anything. Maybe if Britain let their citizens have their own guns this guy might still be alive. I'll be praying for this man's family though. This world is getting worse everyday...
:prayer:

No one helped, but I bet you would run out of fingers in counting the number of people who stood idle and watched this horror occur.

A British soldier hacked to death on a street! Did they outlaw cars too? And not a single person came to his aid. Two psychotic Muslims against how many bystanders? :doh:
 
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ThatRobGuy

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This is unfortunately partially a symptom of people being deluded in terms of what Islam is all about.

Many of my fellow secular folks have a bad habit of allowing themselves to be sold on "oh, well, it's actually a religion of peace"...or "Christianity is just as bad" which prevents people from making the honest distinction that could help them be more vigilant in reporting suspicious activity before it even gets to this point.
 
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Trogdor the Burninator said:
True, an armed population might have made a difference. Then again, it could also have resulted in stray bullets killing innocent bystanders as well.

There's always many possibilities, but sadly this situation was going to be bad any way you put it I guess.
 
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True, an armed population might have made a difference. Then again, it could also have resulted in stray bullets killing innocent bystanders as well.

Also to the point, if firearms were more widely available then chances are they would have been more heavily armed than a cleaver, a carving knife and a Saturday night special that (according to some accounts) catastrophically misfired. We could have been looking at another Dunblane or Hungerford.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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We risked our lives escaping from a Muslim country, but Europe keeps bringing in more and more, and this keeps happening.

Yep, when you have a religious text that says

Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah.
Fight until no other religion exists but Islam.

We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.

Seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks

I shall cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Strike them above the necks, smite their finger tips

(In addition to the 160+ verses specifically referring to Jihad...apparently verses above just pertain to everyday smiting of the infidels)

...and the masses in western culture come up with the conclusion that "it's actually a religion of peace", and think that those who act out in the ways described above are "only the extremists", they're deluding themselves.

Twisting a verse to give it a different meaning (or embellishing it to enhance the impact) in order to fit ones agenda would make them an extremist. Following the exact instructions laid out by the holy book literally (as al Qaeda does) makes one a fundamentalist.

When a member of that group captures a soldier, ties them to a chair, chops their finger tips off, then proceeds to slice their head off (just above the neck)...and you compare that to this verse Strike them above the necks, smite their finger tips...this isn't a person who's "twisting scripture in order to fit their extremist views"...this is a person who's following the instructions of the text literally.

The media (immediately following 9/11) was honest about this for a short while referring to those who engage in these activities as "Islamic Fundamentalists"...however, with in a matter of a year, they changed it to "Islamic Extremists" since calling them fundamentalists would actually mean that they were acknowledging that these kinds of actions were some of the fundamentals of that religion. Dishonesty in reporting.

Since most of the people in western culture who think they're extremists and not fundamentalists haven't actually read the text, it's not surprising that after they watch 2 half hour news shows where someone being interviewed lies and says "it's actually a religion of peace", they're deluded into actually believing that...


The part I find especially odd, is that many of the folks who support Islamists on the false notion that "well, it's only the extremists doing the bad stuff, you just need to be more understanding of other cultures", also claim to be fervent supports of women's rights. Look at how women are treated in Islamic countries...it's not just "a few extremists" who abuse their wives (notice I said wives - plural), if you go into Afghanistan, I'd be willing to be that 80% of the women get treated like dirt by their husbands and other men of the community. Even if they're unwilling to acknowledge that the text actually orders Islamic people to strike fear in the hearts of unbelievers, you'd think at least they oppose it simply for the human rights violations.
 
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An armed population would have made no difference to this incident. The victim was apparently dead in seconds, and the suspects did not attack anyone until armed police arrived.

The article says they hit him with a vehicle and yelled "allahu ackbar" then attacked him, and that people were able to call in an attack in progress. So it might be possible bystanders could have intervened.

In any case, I'd rather a bystander had shot them with a 45 than a cellphone camera while they were brandishing knives and making threats.

Then again, it could also have resulted in stray bullets killing innocent bystanders as well.

Armed police can shoot innocent bystanders just as well.
 
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I Eat Pie

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You know. It's the UK. Don't these people have lots of intellectuals that can realize how much of a failure multiculturalism was? Even David Cameron said so, but they still keep them there. Oh well, bye bye Europe. Bye to over 2000 years of European culture, and hello to Muslim and African culture.

The left just makes me laugh. They think that they'll have a place in society when islam takes over. Especially the women. Islamic law only benefits men. But I'm guessing there's going to be a new Hitler in Europe, and this time, not to target the Jews.

I don't know why the left and the media are scared of saying something. Why, cause they know that these people are dangerous and might attack them like the Danish cartoonist? Why turn a blind eye when people are getting killed? Useless governments....
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I don't know why the left and the media are scared of saying something. Why, cause they know that these people are dangerous and might attack them like the Danish cartoonist? Why turn a blind eye when people are getting killed? Useless governments....

They don't have much regard for freedom of speech...just as Salman Rushdie.
 
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I Eat Pie

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Well we're supposed to be first world countries right?.... Don't our leaders have some sense about this? They're gonna turn our countries like their countries. It's like here in California. It looks like the slums of Mexico now....

What's our future at this rate?
 
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You know. It's the UK. Don't these people have lots of intellectuals that can realize how much of a failure multiculturalism was? Even David Cameron said so, but they still keep them there. Oh well, bye bye Europe. Bye to over 2000 years of European culture, and hello to Muslim and African culture.

It's two guys with a knife and a gun that exploded, acting independently. Come on.

We didn't go about bemoaning that the US was about to implode when two Muslims, acting independently, set off two explosions in Boston, but that might be because we have a sense of proportion about these things.

The left just makes me laugh. They think that they'll have a place in society when islam takes over.
No, we really don't think that. You may want to listen instead of strawman.

Especially the women. Islamic law only benefits men. But I'm guessing there's going to be a new Hitler in Europe, and this time, not to target the Jews.
Not hyperbolic at all, that.

I don't know why the left and the media are scared of saying something. Why, cause they know that these people are dangerous and might attack them like the Danish cartoonist? Why turn a blind eye when people are getting killed? Useless governments....
What exactly do you think we aren't saying? The attacks have been condemned by our government, the British Muslim Council, etc.

Or is the problem that we aren't specifically saying things that stereotype all Muslims as terrorists waiting to happen?
 
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I Eat Pie

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It's the religion fueling them. Is anyone checking what they're preaching in those mosques?

We've had hidden cameras here in the states catch people in mosques and churches preaching anti Jew hatred before.

Not saying the UK should be a big brother country, but you have to be careful with these kind of people. Muslim fundamentalism, that is.
 
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It's the religion fueling them. Is anyone checking what they're preaching in those mosques?

We've had hidden cameras here in the states catch people in mosques and churches preaching anti Jew hatred before.

Yes, I'm sure singling out a group for intrusive surveillance purely because they belong to that group won't at all hack them off and contribute to more radicalisation, no sir.

I'm fine with them putting CCTV cameras on their own buildings, because then they might have a better chance of catching people like the morons who decided to attack mosques around the UK last night.

Because as everyone knows, the best thing to do when faced with an enemy who holds you as equally complicit in atrocity based purely on your nationality and values is to respond in kind :doh:

Not saying the UK should be a big brother country, but you have to be careful with these kind of people. Muslim fundamentalism, that is.

And as ever, all your criticisms up until this point was of Muslims in general and about how we're letting too many of them in.

And as ever, it's only when you're called on that that you feel the need to be more specific.
 
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Nope. I still say bringing more in will cause more crimes. You can teach a child to hate, and that stays with them. There are normal people out there who are called to join in the fight.

Like when the government was spying on 2 men who watched an al qaeda recruitment video on somalia, and a week later both bought tickets to somalia. They both got caught at the air port.

Either that, or you can let them keep spreading their hate message and go around killing people for allah.

And yes, I am singling out a group. It's not a bunch of crazy christians jews atheists and hindus going around doing this. Or maybe we should say "islam, atheism, same thing. both groups are just as capable of crime", and leave it at that. Either that, or we can do the smart thing and focus on the root of the problem. If not, then ok, lets just have more people die, then we can fold our arms and wonder why nothing is changing. Did you guys think they would all just come and assimilate? The choice is yours to make...
 
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Nope. I still say bringing more in will cause more crimes. You can teach a child to hate, and that stays with them. There are normal people out there who are called to join in the fight.

And you'll only push more in that direction if we take the measures you suggest.

And yes, I am singling out a group.

You're doing what you always do, which is condemn over a billion people and suggest they should have their fundamental rights violated based on the actions of a handful.

It's not a bunch of crazy christians jews atheists and hindus going around doing this. Or maybe we should say "islam, atheism, same thing. both groups are just as capable of crime", and leave it at that. Either that, or we can do the smart thing and focus on the root of the problem.

And what you suggest is the root of the problem isn't necessarily so, or at least is not the sole root of the problem. The argument against the citation of Koran verses isn't that Christians are as bad in behaviour, it's that if we applied the same logic to Christianity (cherry-picking a few of the nastier verses) we would have to treat Christians the same way. And yet we don't. So there are clearly other factors in play - I'm sure buggering about with their countries and politics since (if not before) the days of the British Empire has nothing at all to do with it :doh:

And I will never for the life of me understand why atheists and Christians - two groups who think Islam and the Koran are cobblers from the ground up - still think there is a "true" meaning of Islam. One can argue that if a god is omnipotent then any inspired texts should not require anything more than a literalistic meaning, but assuming that this means that we should treat all members of a group like Islam by the literalists is wrong for the simple fact that not every Muslim is literalist with regard to the cited verses.

If not, then ok, lets just have more people die, then we can fold our arms and wonder why nothing is changing. Did you guys think they would all just come and assimilate? The choice is yours to make...

Who is "they"? The majority of Muslims in the UK are not planning to blow themselves up, and reference to a few verses in the Koran is not evidence that they are.
 
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