Terms Queen of heaven and Fully God and fully man... But at the same time?

[Alithis]

For most of my life iv heard this terminology.
That Jesus was fully God and fully man. ...“at the same time ”

But is it true ?

Yes this is poking a stick into a doctrinal hornet nest.
But not to detract from the word made flesh ..but rather to look into OTHER erroneous and even blasphemic terms which have their defense ONLY in the establishment of the words “fully man and fully God at the same time.

I establish the setting of approach from .
That Mary is absolutely Not the mother of God nor the queen of heaven.
And such elevation of “the created ” is no less then Idolatary .

These titles given to Mary are only possible if Jesus was fully God at the same time as being fully man .
But scripture never directly states that to be the case.
It is a collection of assumptions added by man .
It is horrendously mingled with pagan religion .
Not to mention utterly Unrequired for salvation.
Since it is utterly unrequired, why is it added and by whom ，seeing that NONE of the apostles EVER included it in ANY of their epistles or teachings.

 

[Alithis]

Note: Non bible.. long winded posts quoting long dead men .can only be considered off topic.
This is about what bible scripture states.Not what men teach over the top of it.

 

[stuart lawrence]

If John 8:58 gets quoted, you could always remind people it was an angel whom God spoke through to Moses from the burning bush.

 

[redleghunter]

For most of my life iv heard this terminology.
That Jesus was fully God and fully man. ...“at the same time ”

But is it true ?

Yes this is poking a stick into a doctrinal hornet nest.
But not to detract from the word made flesh ..but rather to look into OTHER erroneous and even blasphemic terms which have tgier defense ONLY in the establishment of the words fully man and fully God at the same time.

I establish the setting of approach from .
That Mary is absolutely Not the mother of God nor the queen of heaven.
And such elevation of “the created ” is no less then Idolatary .

These titles given to Mary are only possible if Jesus was fully God at the same time as being fully man .
But scripture never dhies that to be the case.
It is a collection of assumptions added by man .
It is horrendously mingled with pagan religion .
Not to mention utterly Unrequired for salvation.
Since it is utterly unrequited why is it added and by whom seeing that NONE of the apostles EVER included it in ANY of those epistles or teachings.

What is your Biblical exposition for the Person of Jesus Christ?

 

[Landon Caeli]

For most of my life iv heard this terminology.
That Jesus was fully God and fully man. ...“at the same time ”

But is it true ?

Yes this is poking a stick into a doctrinal hornet nest.
But not to detract from the word made flesh ..but rather to look into OTHER erroneous and even blasphemic terms which have tgier defense ONLY in the establishment of the words fully man and fully God at the same time.

I establish the setting of approach from .
That Mary is absolutely Not the mother of God nor the queen of heaven.
And such elevation of “the created ” is no less then Idolatary .

These titles given to Mary are only possible if Jesus was fully God at the same time as being fully man .
But scripture never dhies that to be the case.
It is a collection of assumptions added by man .
It is horrendously mingled with pagan religion .
Not to mention utterly Unrequired for salvation.
Since it is utterly unrequited why is it added and by whom seeing that NONE of the apostles EVER included it in ANY of those epistles or teachings.

How was Jesus able to perform so many miracles then, before pentecost, if he were not God?

...Did God just fulfill Jesus' every request? Or was it God the whole time, and Jesus just did and said as he was told?

 

[truefiction1]

For most of my life iv heard this terminology.
That Jesus was fully God and fully man. ...“at the same time ”

But is it true ?

Yes this is poking a stick into a doctrinal hornet nest.
But not to detract from the word made flesh ..but rather to look into OTHER erroneous and even blasphemic terms which have tgier defense ONLY in the establishment of the words fully man and fully God at the same time.

I establish the setting of approach from .
That Mary is absolutely Not the mother of God nor the queen of heaven.
And such elevation of “the created ” is no less then Idolatary .

These titles given to Mary are only possible if Jesus was fully God at the same time as being fully man .
But scripture never dhies that to be the case.
It is a collection of assumptions added by man .
It is horrendously mingled with pagan religion .
Not to mention utterly Unrequired for salvation.
Since it is utterly unrequited why is it added and by whom seeing that NONE of the apostles EVER included it in ANY of those epistles or teachings.

"The Word became Flesh", so yes, Jesus is both fully God and Fully man at the same time. He still is, for now and forever, both fully God and fully man. If the Word of God is not God, then it could be said that the ever-virgin Mary is not the mother of God. However, the Word of God is indeed God, as Scripture reveals, so as the Word "became flesh", having taken His flesh as well as His maternal care from her, she is indeed the mother of "God the Word". There is nothing erroneous, blasphemous, or idolatrous about calling her this. It is erroneous to say that she is not "mother of God the Word", because doing so introduces a false conception about the nature of the Incarnation of the Word of God in our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Noxot]

here is what the Lord Jesus says:

Matt 12:46-50 (YLT)
And while he was yet speaking to the multitudes, lo, his mother and brethren had stood without, seeking to speak to him, and one said to him, `Lo, thy mother and thy brethren do stand without, seeking to speak to thee.' And he answering said to him who spake to him, `Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?' And having stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, he said, `Lo, my mother and my brethren! for whoever may do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.'

 

[truefiction1]

here is what the Lord Jesus says:

Matt 12:46-50 (YLT)
And while he was yet speaking to the multitudes, lo, his mother and brethren had stood without, seeking to speak to him, and one said to him, `Lo, thy mother and thy brethren do stand without, seeking to speak to thee.' And he answering said to him who spake to him, `Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?' And having stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, he said, `Lo, my mother and my brethren! for whoever may do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.'

Here is what the mother of God, who does the will of her Son's Father in heaven says:

Luke 1:38
“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.”

 

[Noxot]

Here is what the mother of God, who does the will of her Son's Father in heaven says:

Luke 1:38
“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.”

ah yes I detect she was living in heaven while in the earth just like some of the angels I know are also like.

 

[kepha31]

here is what the Lord Jesus says:

Matt 12:46-50 (YLT)
And while he was yet speaking to the multitudes, lo, his mother and brethren had stood without, seeking to speak to him, and one said to him, `Lo, thy mother and thy brethren do stand without, seeking to speak to thee.' And he answering said to him who spake to him, `Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?' And having stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, he said, `Lo, my mother and my brethren! for whoever may do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.'

Jesus is not putting His mother down, that would be violating the 4th Commandment, honor your parents. He is using His mother as a role model. If she didn't do the will of God, Jesus would not have been born. This verse actually underscores the role of those who do the will of God, and His mother did it perfectly. Doing the will of God through Jesus is the whole purpose of Marian devotion, something that Protestants seem resistant to understanding.

It's not the "gotcha" verse that Protestants think it is.

 

[Noxot]

Jesus is not putting His mother down, that would be violating the 4th Commandment, honor your parents. He is using His mother as a role model. If she didn't do the will of God, Jesus would not have been born. This verse actually underscores the role of those who do the will of God, and His mother did it perfectly. Doing the will of God through Jesus is the whole purpose of Marian devotion, something that Protestants seem resistant to understanding.

It's not the "gotcha" verse that Protestants think it is.

if we are not mary then Christ will not be born in us either.

 

[Landon Caeli]

It's not the "gotcha" verse that Protestants think it is.

Exactly true. And viewing it that way will lead to a multitude of problems, which we're going to see shortly.

 

[Noxot]

whatever honors mary has we can also have therefore be careful how you slander this one.

 

[Landon Caeli]

if we are not mary then Christ will not be born in us either.

That is an interesting point. Is it scriptural?

 

[kepha31]

For most of my life iv heard this terminology.
That Jesus was fully God and fully man. ...“at the same time

But is it true ?

Yes this is poking a stick into a doctrinal hornet nest.
But not to detract from the word made flesh ..but rather to look into OTHER erroneous and even blasphemic terms which have tgier defense ONLY in the establishment of the words fully man and fully God at the same time.

I establish the setting of approach from .
That Mary is absolutely Not the mother of God nor the queen of heaven.
And such elevation of “the created ” is no less then Idolatary .

These titles given to Mary are only possible if Jesus was fully God at the same time as being fully man .
But scripture never dhies that to be the case.
It is a collection of assumptions added by man .
It is horrendously mingled with pagan religion .
Not to mention utterly Unrequired for salvation.
Since it is utterly unrequited why is it added and by whom seeing that NONE of the apostles EVER included it in ANY of those epistles or teachings.

1) First, we establish that Jesus is God.
2) Then we establish that His mother, a human being, gave birth to the God/man Jesus Christ.
3) Then, using logic and common sense, we conclude that Mary is the Mother of God, but not mother of the Father.

Either you hold that Jesus is not God, and He didn't need a mother and came to earth on a space ship.

 

[Monk Brendan]

That Jesus was fully God and fully man. ...“at the same time ”

The Nicene Creed says the same thing.

That Mary is absolutely Not the mother of God nor the queen of heaven.

Mary IS the mother of Jesus. If she is, and she is, then, Jesus being fully God and fully man at the same time makes her the Mother of God.

I normally don't comment on Marian doctrine, as there are many people, even on the CF, that don't believe that Jesus is God.

 

[Noxot]

That is an interesting point. Is it scriptural?

yes but some people have grown used to eating only herbs

edit, I was referencing:

Rom 14:1-3 (YLT)
And him who is weak in the faith receive ye--not to determinations of reasonings; one doth believe that he may eat all things--and he who is weak doth eat herbs; let not him who is eating despise him who is not eating: and let not him who is not eating judge him who is eating, for God did receive him.

 

[redleghunter]

as there are many people, even on the CF, that don't believe that Jesus is God.

Indeed. That is why I asked the OP what their understanding was of the Nature of the Person of Jesus Christ.

All the Marian questions are quite irrelevant if we can't get a definition of the Nature of Christ from the OP.

 

[com7fy8]

For most of my life iv heard this terminology.
That Jesus was fully God and fully man. ...“at the same time ”

But is it true ?

Jesus is fully God, and He is all that man can be of all which is good for humans to become, to be compassionate and humble and not conceited.

 

[com7fy8]

That Mary is absolutely Not the mother of God nor the queen of heaven.

Even if this would not be idolatry - - in the book of Revelation there are views of Heaven, and Mary is not mentioned as being on the throne next to Jesus. And John wrote Revelation from a prison island, after he had taken Jesus' mother to stay with him under his roof. She was older than he was, possibly. While he no longer had her staying with him, then was when he saw the vision of Heaven and he does not mention seeing Mary on the throne with Jesus.