Tennessee legislature passes permitless handgun carry bill

[hislegacy]

What good do strict gun control laws in Chicago do if it's possible to buy handguns without a background check just over the line in Indiana? What good do strict gun control laws to if that's the only step you take to control gun crime? Chicago is a good example. In Chicago it is not unusual for a person arrested for a gun crime to be back on the streets and arrested for another a couple of days later. I believe that the record is three times in one week.

No one needs to leave Chicago to purchase an illegal gun. They are sold and traded openly.

I fully support a zero tolerance and mandatory sentencing for all gun violations. No pleas

Get caught with an illegally obtained weapon, spend a year in jail. Period, no time off for good behavior, no plea to another charge.

Second offense or use in a violent act mandatory minimum of 10 years. No exceptions no reductions.

Real consequences that cannot be circumvented.

 

[hislegacy]

Ah, but you claimed that any gun control laws would only hurt the law abiding. Here in Illinois, one must have a Firearms Owners ID card to own a gun. (Basically it's evidence of a background check by the State Police.) The gun itself is not registered, but if I'm found in possession a gun and don't have a FOID card I am subject to severe penalties. I want you to explain to me how that gun control law only hurts the law-abiding.

How is that working? Doesn’t seem to be very effective.

 

[Speedwell]

How is that working? Doesn’t seem to be very effective.

No, it would work better if people were actually punished for violating it. I already gave you my opinion as to why gun laws aren't working very well in Chicago.

 

[Speedwell]

No one leaves to leave Chicago to purchase an illegal gun. They are sold and traded openly.

Right. Those who bring them in from outside bought them legally. Remember, all guns start out as legally owned.

I fully support a zero tolerance and mandatory sentencing for all gun violations. No pleas

Get caught with an illegally obtained weapon, spend a year in jail. Period, no time off for good behavior, no plea to another charge.

Second offense or use in a violent act mandatory minimum of 10 years. No exceptions no reductions.

Real consequences that cannot be circumvented.

Amen, brother. I would add no bond or OR for gun crimes. See if you can convince some of our colleagues here who assert that any gun law only hurts law-abiding gun owners.

 

[Kentonio]

So, mass shooters actually care about people and really don't want to break any laws. Makes perfect sense.

You were talking about 'criminals' before as a reason why you all need to be packing guns. Are we reducing that now to you need guns to protect just against crazed mass shooters?

 

[renniks]

Whether that is true or not, you said such a law would only hurt the law-abiding.

I actually didn't say that. I did say something to the effect that criminals aren't going to obey gun laws.

 

[renniks]

You were talking about 'criminals' before as a reason why you all need to be packing guns. Are we reducing that now to you need guns to protect just against crazed mass shooters?

Well, I have a crazy neighbor that once threatened me with a gun. I'm fairly sure he was banned from having firearms then, but I'm sure he is now, as he is now certified as crazy. Shortly after that incident, he was incarcerated for among other things, threatening others with a gun. I had a gun on my hip at the time, BTW and was totally calm, or things could have gone differently. Do I think he gives a flying fig about gun laws? Do I think he doesn't have guns stashed somewhere? No, I'm guessing he does... and I'm quite sure he doesn't care about gun laws, and if he threatens me, or one of my friends. I would prefer it to be when I have the option of protecting myself. Not because I ever want to have to harm anyone, but because some people just don't care about anything but themselves and are not always rational.

 

[parousia70]

I did say something to the effect that criminals aren't going to obey gun laws.

Yet they do obey laws governing the ownership and use of fully automatic weapons.

I sill wonder how we managed that?

Weird.

 

[renniks]

Because I can’t name even one criminal who’s on any police or court record as having used a fully automatic weapon in the commission of a crime.

Can you?

If owning a fully automatic weapon is legal, which it is, and none have ever been used in the commission of any crime, how did we manage that?

How is it that only law abiding citizens own and use fully automatic firearms?

Seems to be an amazing feat, yet we’ve plainly accomplished it.

How?

yeah, there have been full autos used, but rarely. So, your proposal is that we make all guns super expensive like full autos are, and make it so there are loads of hoops to jump through to get one? That's very Biden of you. And all it will do is make it so that more guns are stolen by criminals and make it much harder for people who need a gun for protection or hunting to purchase one.

 

[Speedwell]

I actually didn't say that. I did say something to the effect that criminals aren't going to obey gun laws.

No, it was 98cwitr who said that.

 

[renniks]

Yet they do obey laws governing the ownership and use of fully automatic weapons.

I sill wonder how we managed that?

Weird.

I still think you are quite naive to think no criminals possess full autos. It might not be their preferred weapon to commit a crime, but that doesn't mean they don't have them. Try putting a BMG under you trench coat and robbing a liquor store. Not really practical.

 

[Darkhorse]

Right. Those who bring them in from outside bought them legally. Remember, all guns start out as legally owned.

Since 1969, it is a violation of federal gun laws to buy a handgun in a state where the buyer is not a resident. So those bringing such guns into Illinois did not buy them legally.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, I have a crazy neighbor that once threatened me with a gun. I'm fairly sure he was banned from having firearms then, but I'm sure he is now, as he is now certified as crazy. Shortly after that incident, he was incarcerated for among other things, threatening others with a gun. I had a gun on my hip at the time, BTW and was totally calm, or things could have gone differently. Do I think he gives a flying fig about gun laws? Do I think he doesn't have guns stashed somewhere? No, I'm guessing he does... and I'm quite sure he doesn't care about gun laws, and if he threatens me, or one of my friends. I would prefer it to be when I have the option of protecting myself. Not because I ever want to have to harm anyone, but because some people just don't care about anything but themselves and are not always rational.

Wow, are your trying to tell me that you had an altercation while you were carrying a firearm and you didn’t kill everyone? Most people in this thread seem to think that’s absolutely inconceivable when in reality it happens everyday, they just don’t get reported because the situation was defused.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Since 1969, it is a violation of federal gun laws to buy a handgun in a state where the buyer is not a resident. So those bringing such guns into Illinois did not buy them legally.

Yeah here in Texas you have to do a background check before you can purchase a firearm. Part of that is to make sure that your a resident of Texas as well as not having a criminal record that restricts you from being eligible to purchase a firearm.

 

[Speedwell]

Yeah here in Texas you have to do a background check before you can purchase a firearm. Part of that is to make sure that your a resident of Texas as well as not having a criminal record that restricts you from being eligible to purchase a firearm.

Since 1969, it is a violation of federal gun laws to buy a handgun in a state where the buyer is not a resident. So those bringing such guns into Illinois did not buy them legally.

OK, there is another example for 98cwitr. How does that law only hurt the law-abiding?

 

[hislegacy]

No, it would work better if people were actually punished for violating it. I already gave you my opinion as to why gun laws aren't working very well in Chicago.

See if you can convince some of our colleagues here who assert that any gun law only hurts law-abiding gun owners.

Currently - they are the only ones following the law - as you have shared in part. That is why they are the only ones effected by the laws.

Yet they do obey laws governing the ownership and use of fully automatic weapons.

I sill wonder how we managed that?

Weird.

Partially because they are under federal law and the penalties are enforced and severe. The only criminals that seem to be utilizing full auto's are the very wealthy drug dealers and some gangs.

I believe if we had a zero tolerance and mandatory jail for all gun offenses it would curtail much of what is happening.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Currently - they are the only ones following the law - as you have shared in part. That is why they are the only ones effected by the laws.



Partially because they are under federal law and the penalties are enforced and severe. The only criminals that seem to be utilizing full auto's are the very wealthy drug dealers and some gangs.

I believe if we had a zero tolerance and mandatory jail for all gun offenses it would curtail much of what is happening.

I can’t speak for other states but in Texas to my knowledge any gun offenses do carry jail time with them. Illegal possession of a firearm results in an immediate arrest.

 

[parousia70]

yeah, there have been full autos used, but rarely.

Can you Link to ONE in the last 50 years?

We average 450 mass shootings per year in the US, and yet ZERO of those, or any other firearm Crimes, are committed using Fully Automatic weapons.... Why this is not something to celebrate, and attempt to propagate to other firearms, is a mystery....

I can't figure out why People say its impossible to keep firearms ONLY in the hands of Law Abiding Citizens practicing their 2nd amendment right, when we've been able to do exactly that when it comes to fully automatic weapons.

Seems like the "Gun Ho" Crowd is simply advocating for MORE shootings done by MORE people, so replicating the 100% success rate of making fully automatic weapons so __________ that Only law abiding citizens own and use them, would be counterintuitive to their goal of more shootings & more Violent Crime. (Please feel free to fill in the blank)

So, your proposal is that we make all guns super expensive like full autos are, and make it so there are loads of hoops to jump through to get one?

Is that why you think only law abiding citizens own and use them?
That there's no criminals rich enough to afford them?
Interesting. You may be onto something with the "hoops" thing tho...

I am curious, if we already have these hoops to jump through, and the law abiding citizens who wish to own a fully automatic firearm may do so if they jump through the hoops, and if the hoops are a demonstrable, proven deterrent for criminals, and such hoops haven't resulted in an increase in Theft of Fully automatic weapons BY criminals, nor have they resulted in the dismissal of the 2nd amendment, what is the objection exactly??

And all it will do is make it so that more guns are stolen by criminals and make it much harder for people who need a gun for protection or hunting to purchase one.

Right.
We know this would happen because so many criminals already steal and use automatic weapo..... oops... nevermind.

 

[renniks]

I am curious, if we already have these hoops to jump through, and the law abiding citizens who wish to own a fully automatic firearm may do so if they jump through the hoops, and if the hoops are a demonstrable, proven deterrent for criminals, and such hoops haven't resulted in an increase in Theft of Fully automatic weapons BY criminals, nor have they resulted in the dismissal of the 2nd amendment, what is the objection exactly??

First you have several speculations in there.. second you just caused a whole bunch of law abiding people to die because they didn't have any way to protect themselves because they don't have the time or the money to go through the hoops.

 

[renniks]

Can you Link to ONE in the last 50 years?

MS deputies shot with rare, fully automatic rifles, officials say

North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia