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Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by Icyspark, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Meaning, A written Law does not have to show you that you're a sinner or you've done something evil...you have a "conscience", and a "mind" which God puts there to convict and defend your thoughts...Romans 2

    Didn't Adam know good and evil before the Law was given??
     
  2. Icyspark

    Icyspark Member

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    Hi Him,

    So I'm guessing someone else has your previous screen name? Do you mind telling me what your other name was?

    God bless.

    But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    So then Cain punished, the entire world punished at the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah punished for their great sin (exceedingly grave sin) - all prove that Law DID exist before Sinai since if it did not exist - none of them would be sinners, none could be punished for sin that they were not guilty of.

    Romans 5 is proving that the Law did exist before Sinai else no one would have been guilty
     
  4. HIM

    HIM Friend Supporter

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    Hi Icyspark
    You probably do not remember me. Lightbearer. I have Been on Carm, Worthy, And Moderated at Bible-Discussions.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    True -- it was a "sin" to take God's name in vain - even before Sinai
     
  6. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the Law existed, but it wasn't given to mankind to follow as a way for salvation....
    Because, even if the Law were given at the time of Adam, Cain, Noah etc they still going to break it and Sin..
     
  7. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Of course Adam didn't obey God in a way didn't fear God (i.e. His name)
     
  8. HIM

    HIM Friend Supporter

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    Exactly. They knew they sinned even though they did not have the law written on paper or stone until the Spirit was silence due to constant ill behavior. They had it in their heart as verse 2:15 states.
    God has worked through everyone through His Spirit in our hearts since the beginning. So they who sinned without the written law shall perish without the law because they are judged by it because God had been working on them through His Spirit.

    Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
    Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  9. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to skip Romans 2:14..indeed when the Gentiles, who do not have the Law do by "nature" things required by the Law, "they are law for themselves, even though they do not have the Law...

    So you can see clearly the two groups, the ones who had the Law (Jews) and Gentiles who don't have the Law, yet both groups were judged by God according to what they have...either by the Law (Jews) or apart from the Law (Gentiles)..
     
  10. Icyspark

    Icyspark Member

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    Hi Lightbearer,

    That sounds familiar. I probably wouldn't've interacted too much with you since I spend most of my posts responding to the critics of Adventism.

    God bless.

    But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
     
  11. Icyspark

    Icyspark Member

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    I could be wrong but I don't believe a single person has challenged one specific aspect of the opening post. Why do you suppose that is?

    I'd really love for people who disagree with any of my Ten Reasons to engage any one of those reasons and express why, from a biblical standpoint, they disagree.

    Let's take a look at the very first of my Ten Reasons and see if you have any disagreement:


    1. Sabbath as a Memorial
    Genesis 2:1-3
    Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
    By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

    Exodus 20:8-11
    “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

    One of the reasons Jesus gives for regularly observing His Sabbath is in reference to the singular monumental event in this world's history—its creation. The Sabbath is a weekly reminder that Jesus created this Earth (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-17). It is a day to rest from our works just as Jesus rested from His (Hebrews 4:7-10). It is to this very fact of being the Creator that Jesus appeals to over and over in the Scriptures as validation for His claim to being the one and only true God (c.f. 1 Chronicles 16:23-27; 2 Kings 19:15; 2 Chronicles 2:12; Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 33:6; 96:5; 102:25-27; 115:15; 121:2; Isaiah 37:16; 40:20; 45:18; Jeremiah 10:12; 27:5; 32:17; 33:2, 3; 51:15; Jonah 1:9; Job 26:7; Acts 4:24; 14:15; 17:24; Revelation 14:7).

    Psalm 111:2-4
    Great are the works of the LORD; they are pondered by all who delight in them. Glorious and majestic are his deeds, and his righteousness endures forever. He has caused his wonders to be remembered; the LORD is gracious and compassionate.

    If Jesus says to "Remember the Sabbath," and this remembering is directly connected to the "wonders" of His creation, why is it that people find this something they wish to forget? If one were to develop a hierarchy of the most important events in human history would not the act of creation rank toward the very top? Aside from the life, death and resurrection of the Creator, what other event do you suppose would be more worthy of remembering? Interestingly, even though Jesus nor His disciples ever hinted at any regularly repeating recognition for His resurrection, there are some who insist that we honor Sunday as a resurrection memorial. So while we have no divine command for a weekly remembering of the resurrection (making it a tradition of men), we likewise have no command overturning the weekly remembering of the creation. About this Jesus asks, "Why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"​

    If God "has caused His wonders to be remembered," on what basis do you think He reversed course and said, "Never mind"?

    God bless.

    But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
     
  12. Icyspark

    Icyspark Member

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    Hi True Counterphobia,

    I responded to someone else who had a similar question. Maybe you saw this already?

    The spiritual rest that Jesus supplies doesn't overturn the physical rest which He also supplies in His once a week Sabbath rest. Compare the following two passages and consider the three color-coded elements and then see if you can answer the related questions:

    Matthew 11:28
    Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    John 7:37
    On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."

    T__ F__ There is a physical component to humans resting on the Sabbath.
    T__ F__ Finding spiritual rest in Jesus is no different than drinking spiritual water. Both do not negate the continued need for their physical counterpart.
    T__ F__ Resting in Jesus means that humans no longer require any physical rest.​

    I pray this helps.

    But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    The Law was never given to fallen man as a gospel of salvation - as the escape.

    Gal 3:
    the Law, which came 430 years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

    19 Why the Law then? It was added on account of the violations, having been ordered through angels at the hand of a mediator, until the Seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; but God is only one. 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? Far from it! For if a law had been given that was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has confined everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

    23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

    =================

    When faith came to Adam , to Abraham, to David, to Samuel, to Moses , to Elijah - to all the giants of faith in Heb 11 - that is when they were released from the curse of the Law and that is how Moses and Elijah can stand with Christ - in Glory - in Matt 17 even BEFORE the death of Christ.

    One Gospel Gal 1:6-9 in all of time - and that one gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8
     
  14. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Lol. Okay.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    The Bible writers

    Am glad we can agree on at least one group of historic sources.
     
  16. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Agreed...the law cannot saved us only the Gospel...and it was given because of transgression and it wasn't given in Eden but in Sinai as you quoted in Galatians 3

    So to be clear the Law wasn't given to mankind in Eden but to Israel only in Sinai...
     
  17. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    If you keep the ten commandments then you are under the law. If you are under the law then you are not under grace.

    The promise of the law was real estate in the middle east, the promised land.

    Hebrews 8:6
    But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

    Which covenant are you a member of the new covenant or the old covenant.

    The old covenant was based on the law (the ten commandments).

    The new covenant is based on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    You cannot be a member of both covenants at once.
     
  18. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    The law written on the heart is love. That is God's law. Love does not steal or lie and love is the polar opposite of the law.

    If you say that you are under the ten commandments then you are under the law. Anyone under the law cannot be under grace. The law is a yoke, a yoke of works, a yoke of the flesh.
     
  19. Freth

    Freth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Ten Commandments can be found throughout the New Testament. They can even be found in end time prophecy.

    Love God: Worship and the First Four Commandments

    Revelation 13 shows how worship of the dragon, the beast and his image, and receiving the mark are direct satanic counterfeits of the first four (worship) commandments. (i.e. Satan seems to think God's law is important enough to counterfeit.)

    Commandment #1
    • Have No Other Gods
    • Worship the Dragon
      • Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast...
    Commandment #2
    • Do Not Worship Any Graven Image
      • Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
    • Worship the Image of the Beast
    Commandment #3
    • Do Not Take the Lord's Name in Vain
      • Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
    • Blasphemy Against God
      • Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name...
    Commandment #4
    • Seal of God
      • Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
    • Mark of the Beast
      • Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

    Love Others: The Last Six Commandments


    Revelation 22:10-16

    And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

    He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

    And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie [the Ten Commandments and abominations].​

    I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


    Conclusion

    The very conflict (and the very worship issue) of end time prophecy concerns all Ten Commandments, which is why, again...

    Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  20. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Christians are not under the law (ten commandments).

    Romans 6:14
    For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
     
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