You did not address the role of the Gentiles in the old covenant in your Ten Reasons. If you think you did, please cute and paste the relevant sections which I have overlooked.
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Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]
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You did not address the role of the Gentiles in the old covenant in your Ten Reasons. If you think you did, please cute and paste the relevant sections which I have overlooked.
WHO IS ISRAEL IN THE OLD AND NEW COVENANT?
Gentiles are now grafted in...
ROMANS 11:16-27
[16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
[17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree.
The Jewish and the Gentile believers are the branches grafted onto the root (Christ)...
[18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
[19], You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[20], Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:
God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD...
[21], For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
[22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
[23], And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[24], For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
[25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
[26], And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The NEW COVENANT is for both Jews and Greek, bond and free, all those who are in Christ. All in Christ are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.
[27], For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
No more Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female, if you are in Christ you are ISRAEL...
GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.
God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...
ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.
God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...
ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...
COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.
ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.
The New Covenant is for God's Israel...
EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.
and again...
JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Paul proclaims it here...
HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
................
The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:16-27)
ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. God's WORD is given to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW it by faith.
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Are you ignoring my question or are you unable to understand it? I am not at all, in the least, asking about anything regarding Gentiles in the new covenant. Please understand this.
My question, which I am asking for the fifth time is this -
What, in your opinion is the role of the Gentiles in the old covenant?
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It's been answered. Since I have already answered this, why don't you answer my questions- what covenant do you feel your under and what are the laws in that covenant and what scriptures do you have to back that up?
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Sadly, I am such a complete dullard that I did not comprehend any form of answer to my question. What I did perceive was an answer to another question which seems to be the relationship of Gentiles to the new covenant. Please copy and paste your previous answer to my question and explain to me.
Thank you!
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We are all grafted into Israel. First and second covenants were made to Israel, we (gentiles) are grafted into Israel meaning we all can be saved and are under the law. It's a good thing.
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We are all grafted into Israel. First and second covenants were made to Israel, we (gentiles) are grafted into Israel meaning we all can be saved and are under the law. It's a good thing.
Strangely, your post does not address my question in the least. My question is not about the second covenant at all or the present standing of Gentiles in relation to it. It is clearly and simply what, if anything, was the relationship between Gentiles and the old covenant given by God through Moses on Mount Sinai. If you do not understand my question and/or would like to continue to evade, please let me know and I will cease wasting our time.
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Actually, the answer was very through.
If you would be so kind to answer the question I asked maybe I can help walk you through it.
What covenant are you under and what is that covenant (laws). Are you under the first or second? Please provide scripture to support the answer.
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Hi bbbbbbb,
What is it you don't understand? The old covenant was made with Israel, but Gentiles could be "grafted in" then just as they are also "grafted in" under the new covenant. Remember, the new covenant was only with the "people of Israel and the people of Judah."
If that isn't the answer you are looking for, why don't you tell us what you're thinking?
God bless!
But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
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Why would God specify the seventh day specifically from the outset, if it wasn't important? There is no plausible deniability in it. It's right there in black and white.
In my mind, that should be the end of the discussion. God set it in stone. End of story.
Let's take it a step further then.
Why? Because the Sabbath is the Seal of God.
What is a seal? Traditionally, a king's seal contains three key pieces of information. I've added worship, because it's also relevant, since the subject is the seventh day Sabbath.
- (a) Name - God
- (b) Title - Creator (work: finished, made, blessed, glorified, sanctified, hallowed)
- (c) Territory - Heavens and Earth and all that in them is.
- (d) Worship - Sabbath (rest: remember (creation), to keep it holy, give glory, fear)
Genesis 2:1-3 - The Creation Account: God Rests on the Seventh Day.
Thus the heavens and the earth(c) were finished(b), and all the host of them(c). And on the seventh day(d) God(a) ended his work(b) which he(a) had made(b); and he rested(d) on the seventh day(d) from all his work(b) which he(a) had made(b). And God(a) blessed(b) the seventh day(d), and sanctified(b) it: because that in it he(a) had rested(d) from all his work(b) which God(a) created(b) and made(b).
6 references to God.
10 references to work and His title as Creator.
2 references to His territory.
5 references to the seventh day Sabbath and worship.
6 references to God.
10 references to work and His title as Creator.
2 references to His territory.
5 references to the seventh day Sabbath and worship.
Exodus 20:8-11 - Mount Sinai: God Writes the Seventh Day Sabbath in Stone.
Remember(d) the sabbath day(d), to keep it holy(d). Six days shalt thou labour(b), and do all thy work(b): But the seventh day(d) is the sabbath of the Lord(d) thy God(a): in it thou shalt not do any work(d), thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord(a) made(b) heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is(c), and rested the seventh day(d): wherefore the Lord(a) blessed(b) the sabbath day(d), and hallowed it(b).
3 references to God.
5 references to work and His title as Creator.
1 reference to His territory.
8 references to the seventh day Sabbath and worship.
3 references to God.
5 references to work and His title as Creator.
1 reference to His territory.
8 references to the seventh day Sabbath and worship.
Revelation 14:7 - The First of the Three Angels' Messages: A Final Call to Worship God.
Saying with a loud voice, Fear(b) God(a), and give glory to(d) him(a); for the hour of his judgment(b) is come: and worship(d) him(a) that made(b) heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters(c).
3 references to God.
3 references to work and His title as Creator
1 reference to His territory.
3 references to worship.
3 references to God.
3 references to work and His title as Creator
1 reference to His territory.
3 references to worship.
Exodus 31:13 - A Message For All Generations: God's Sign is the Seventh Day Sabbath
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my(a) sabbaths(d) ye shall keep(d): for it is a sign [seal](a,b,c,d) between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord(a) that doth sanctify(b) you.
2 references to God.
1 references to work.
1 reference to the Seal of God (sign). Technically +1 to each, which I didn't add.
2 references to the seventh day Sabbath and worship.
2 references to God.
1 references to work.
1 reference to the Seal of God (sign). Technically +1 to each, which I didn't add.
2 references to the seventh day Sabbath and worship.
You can't separate the seventh day from the Sabbath. You can't separate God from the Sabbath. You can't separate His territory from the Sabbath (all of creation). You can't separate worship from the Sabbath.
What is the key issue of the end time that determines whether you receive the mark of the beast or the Seal of God? Worship. (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 14:9, Revelation 14:11, Revelation 16:2, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:4).
I'll leave you with this:
Matthew 7:13-20
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
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None of this is very convincing based on Mark 2:27 And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." Based on this text, I would assume God doesn't really care what day we take our Sabbath on as long as we have one.
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Do you think God should have to explain Himself why He choose the seventh day as His Sabbath? He is our Creator and Savior and He asked us to keep His seventh day Holy in very plain language.
God both spoke and wrote His commandments:
Exodus 20 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
He said His Sabbath is a perpetual covenant, which means its forever. Exodus 31:16-17
Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed."
God made the Sabbath for man Mark 2:27-28 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man,
and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath." Notice it doesn't say Sabbath was made for Jews, it says man which is everyone.
God made man on the 6th day and the very next day was the seventh day, His Sabbath. Sabbath was always meant to be a blessing for man. Genesis 2:3 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. This is the same language as the 4th commandment Exodus 20 8-11
After Jesus rose, His mother Mary went to His grave and if the Sabbath was transferred to another day don't you think He would of at least told her or His disciples or someone? Instead we have the scripture confirming the Sabbath commandment after He rose Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
God says He is unchanging Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Which is why His Sabbath will be forever the seventh day. There is not one scripture stating any other day is Holy, Sacred, Blessed, Sabbath or that He specifically asked us to Remember except the seventh day. Isn't that good enough?
On the New Earth, the Sabbath is unchanged, like He promised: Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
The Sabbath is a sign between God and His people
Exodus 31 12-17 12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”
Sabbath is a sign of sanctification Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
Jesus kept the Sabbath, are we not told to follow His ways? Luke 4:16
The better question you might want to ask, is where is the scripture that says Sunday is a Holy day or His sacred Sabbath? The question about gentiles and the second covenant is easy Galatians3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. You can tell people this a million times, just like you can read this very easy to understand verse written by God "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God but people are going to believe what they want, mainly because they don't want to disrupt their lifestyle by worshipping God on the day He deemed Holy and asked us not to forget when He said REMEMBER, not the day changed by man that is well documented.
I pray this helps. God bless
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That not what the Commandment says, its not a Sabbath day, it is THE Sabbath day. Are we suppose to alter His words?
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
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Shortly after Christ ascended, the Jews at the time started doing sabbath on Sunday. That is why we do Sabbath on Sunday as well, in case you didn't know. I don't think God is hung up on the details here. Only people want to make a system out of everything - it was never God's intention to over legalize everything. That's the problem Jesus had with the Pharisees.
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Saturday in Hebrew means Sabbath. The seventh day is Saturday.
Saturday יום שבת
human sat
Other ways to say this
NOUN
שבת Saturday, Shabbat, sat = Sabbath
בשבת Saturday
ביום שבת Saturday
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Maybe you can provide the scripture where it states the first day is the Sabbath or a Holy day. I already provided the scripture after Jesus rose where the Sabbath was still the commandment . The day never changed after Jesus rose. How confusing would it be to change it to the first day only to change it back again to the seventh when He comes. We do not have a God of confusion.
Also, I would be weary of putting words in God's mouth. He seemed pretty clear in my opinion. You might want to study up on all the scriptures regarding His Sabbath. I always wonder if we don't want to keep His Sabbath on this Earth, are you going to want to in Heaven because it says all will worship Him every Sabbath. Isaiah 66:23
God tells us 1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Keeping His Sabbath was meant as a blessing, nothing else. It was the
Pharisees who added extra rules to God's Sabbath and made it more of a legalized day, instead of a blessing. Which is why we have the second covenant where Gods laws are written in our hearts (we obey because we love Him) and through our actions (minds). The word legalism and Sabbath is Satan's way to discourage people from worshipping God on His true Holy Sabbath.
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