Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

as it turns out - I am not and you need to find something besides "you should quote something else in that chapter" to make that kind of accusation above stick.

 

so that is true.

But only to be followed by more false accusation as we see below.

Does this point not appear very obvious to you??

you have to accurately oppose an actual position I hold for this conversation to work. Merely opposing your own false accusations does not work.

 

Not the same law..as it says Galatians 3 " the Law is Not based on Faith..


So you don't believe God's name is reference to Jesus Christ?

You made yourself apart from the Spirit that enables you fulfilled the Righteousness of the Law..

 

It is true that "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 is not "based on faith"
So also "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 is a command - and not based on faith.
So also "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 - not based on faith.

Just as Gal 3 states... but to violate them is still "sin" even in the NT for Christians ("Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4) - which would include the TEN - having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

As James 2 points out -- even demons and their associated cults know Jesus is the Son of God - but they still take His name in vain and it is not a "sign of faith" on their part to know He exists.

 

Hello Bob, the old covenant law does not require the Spirit to help you follow the commandments, hence why in Galatians 3 Paul states that the Law is Not based on Faith..it's all man without God.

So, you can claim you love God, or keeping the 7th day Sabbath, or love your neighbor, the reality is, is just a mere words, because there is No Spirit to enables you to actually follow those commandments. It's only the Spirit that makes people follow the commandments. But under the old covenant, the Spirit is Not required to help anyone who choose to follow God through by the old covenant Law (Sinai covenant).

So, to sum up my statement, the Spirit is absence under the old covenant, so is just you without God in you.

Thanks

 

Christ spoke about the spirit of the law. What are your thoughts on their purpose for that time especially considering they far surpassed the letter of the law and do you think the spirit of the law is relevant today?

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment;


Peace be to all those in the Body of Christ.

 

yes it does. The same "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 that is sin in the Old Testament -- is still a sin in the New. ("Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 ) even in the New Testament.

And the lost (those without the Spirit of God) "Do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-10

Galatians 3 Paul states that the Law is Not based on Faith for the lost..because it condemns all mankind as sinners as we see in Rom 3:19-20 and man needs no "faith" for that condemnation.

But Paul says in the case of saints under the New Covenant (Heb 8:6-12) that law is written on the heart. In fact Paul says "what then - do we make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact our faith ESTABLISHES the Law" Rom 3:31

 

It is true that "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 is not "based on faith"
So also "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 is a command - and not based on faith.
So also "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 - not based on faith.

Just as Gal 3 states... but to violate them is still "sin" even in the NT for Christians ("Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4) - which would include the TEN - having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

As James 2 points out -- even demons and their associated cults know Jesus is the Son of God - but they still take His name in vain and it is not a "sign of faith" on their part to know He exists.

how is it that "there is No Spirit to enables you"??? are you claiming the Holy Spirit died or no longer exists??? That would be a bit extreme.

Romans 8 makes it clear that the Holy Spirit enables obedience.

It's only the Spirit that makes people follow the commandments. But under the old covenant, the Spirit is Not required to help anyone who choose to follow God through by the old covenant Law (Sinai covenant).

the New Covenant is old testament as we see in Jer 31:31-34 under the ONE Gospel of Gal 1:6-9 preached to Abraham Gal 3:8

 

Thanks, the Spirit of the Law is reference to the "Holy Spirit" and the "Spirit of Christ". The Holy Spirit teaches and the Spirit of Christ put into actions what's have been revealed.

Only through the Gospel in which the Spirit can be work in those who "believe"...


The covenant in Sinai prevents the work of the Spirit in those who chooses to follow God through the old covenant law and commandments...

It's all man in everything, God has no part in the work to make man righteous under this covenant..

.."we will do everything that God said" Exodus 19:8..

.."the person who does these things will live by them." Galatians 3:12

The second point, Jesus demonstrates how the "letter" cannot go into depth of what the commandments really meant so we can see what's sin really is..

 

No is Not!.."is not based on Faith"..meaning Christ is excluded, and His Spirit also excluded...you end up just your own righteousness Not God...Philippians 3:9

This is by far the most misunderstanding concept by those of the old covenant law. Thinking that they follow God by His commandments written on stones...and the results is "condemnation" and "death"..2Corins, because They leave out God and follow their own.

"The law is Not based on Faith", therefore is Not about Jesus Christ and is Not the Gospel. Galatians is a great book to read as @Bob S has quoted in His thread.
Is about the Jewish leaders promoting the Galatians that they have to keep the old covenant law to be justified before God etc

 

Hello @Icyspark,

The Pharisees knows that doing anything other then rest/worship is breaking the Sabbath..Jesus did not refuted their claim regarding His disciples breaking the Sabbath by picking grains. but Jesus was more irritated by their lack of understanding of the meaning of the Sabbath..

The Sabbath is a spiritual rest Not a physical Rest as others think.(Pharisees)

The Sabbath command is part of the 10 commandments given in Sinai through a covenant to Israel...

Keeping the Sabbath command, depends on you to keep the Rest of the commandments as well. Breaking one command, is the same as breaking all the commandments..James 2

So, claiming to keep the 7th day Sabbath command while still struggling with other commandments is just not biblical right.

I agree, that Jesus was born under the Law just like any of us humans. But He was not under the power of the Law as He was never sin and be condemned by the Law, like us.

 

yes it does. The same "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 that is sin in the Old Testament -- is still a sin in the New. ("Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 ) even in the New Testament.

And the lost (those without the Spirit of God) "Do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-10

Galatians 3 Paul states that the Law is Not based on Faith for the lost..because it condemns all mankind as sinners as we see in Rom 3:19-20 and man needs no "faith" for that condemnation.

But Paul says in the case of saints under the New Covenant (Heb 8:6-12) that law is written on the heart. In fact Paul says "what then - do we make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact our faith ESTABLISHES the Law" Rom 3:31

indeed for the lost - it condemns and they have no faith needed for that condemnation

only in the case of the lost. But for the saved we have -- the saints under the New Covenant (Heb 8:6-12) that law is written on the heart. In fact Paul says "what then - do we make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact our faith ESTABLISHES the Law" Rom 3:31

No wonder we have this from NT writers in 1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments;


Where "'Honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 in that still valid unit of ten.

Bible details admitted to by Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations.

 

Thanks Bob,

Galatians 5:4..."You who are trying to be justified by the Law have been alienated from Christ you have fallen away from Grace"...

Christ is "excluded" from your salvation as you follow the old covenant law to be just before God.

It's how the old covenant is pen out.." we will do everything that God said"...

The New covenant is covenant based on God's promises and "God will do everything" as He promised. And we must "believe" that He will fulfilled all that He promised.

 

Rev 14:12 "saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Is it your view that the saints are pursuing righteousness by works in Rev 14:12? in Rom 3:31? in 1 John 5:2-3 ... in any of what was quoted in the post you responded to???

 

Thanks Bob,

The saints in Rev 14 keep the commandments of God because they have the Faith of Jesus..

"Faith comes from hearing the message...message is heard through the word about Christ"...The Gospel! Not the law

So,as the Law (Sinai) is Not based on Faith then no one can keep God's commandments because Faith is excluded, Christ is excluded, the Spirit is absence.

We cannot keep the commandments of God by "works" / works of the Law i.e. law given in Sinai including the 10 commandments...

As you quoted Romans 3:31, if you start from verse 27-31 you'll see Paul put out the two laws...law based on Faith, and Law based on works.
The law based on works was given to the Jews Not Gentiles verse 29..

Also in Romans 2:14.."indeed when the Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by "nature" things required by the Law...

 

Agreed.

the lost do not submit to the law of God - neither indeed can they.

Rom 8:
4 .. the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

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Is it your view that the saints are pursuing righteousness by works in Rev 14:12? in Rom 3:31? in 1 John 5:2-3 ... in any of what was quoted in the post you responded to???

But Paul says in the case of saints under the New Covenant (Heb 8:6-12) that law is written on the heart. In fact Paul says "what then - do we make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact our faith ESTABLISHES the Law" Rom 3:31

 

Not a salvation issue

The word rest (sabbath) is not a time sensitive word . Hebrew 4 informs us any time we do not harden our hearts mixing faith in what we do see we have entered the rest of Christ .

Two kind of sabbaths one as a ceremonial shadow the other moral (do not harden ones heart) and refuse to mix faith.

The ceremonial the forth commandment is according to a parable as reasoning law. Two different reasoning are used .One in Exodus 20 the other in Deuteronomy 5. One in creation the other moving out the nation in Deuteronomy .

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Parables used to reason are not used with the other moral commandments.

It would seem the rest spoken of in Deuteronomy was the first day of the week, the day he said let there be light guiding them through the red Sea representing children of light, the first day to eat and share the gospel , two days were set aside not to do any regular works.

 

Hi there,

Why would you think the Sabbath is a parable when God literally commanded us to do something- Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy Exodus 20:8- its a commandment. A parable is an illustration of something that has a deeper meaning. A commandment means we are supposed to obey what God stated. The Sabbath came in a covenant of Ten Commandments Exodus 34:28 Exodus 20 so the teaching you are suggesting, does not line up with God’s written and spoken Word.

You will not find this statement supported in scripture and I see you did not offer any scripture:

There is only one weekly Sabbath commandment and God said that the Sabbath is on the seventh day Exodus 20:10. The rest in Christ (spiritual rest) is received though obedience and keeping the Sabbath commandment. Hebrews 4:9-10.

Personally I don’t think its wise to create our own meanings to God’s clear instructions.

God bless